AFR's vs. TEA's vs. ???
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 3
From: San Jose Ca
AFR's vs. TEA's vs. ???
I'm researching the ins and outs of a H/C/etc project.
Looks like there's no difference in price - so can any owners of these heads chime in and give me your opinions? Mine is a weekend driver mostly but with lots of HPDE's thrown in.
I can't put a monster cam in cuz I'm in California : ( Can I see 450ish RWHP with a Fast/LG's/heads/cam/pulley and tuning? I"m thinking 114 LSA is as far as I can go.
Thanks,
Phil
Looks like there's no difference in price - so can any owners of these heads chime in and give me your opinions? Mine is a weekend driver mostly but with lots of HPDE's thrown in.
I can't put a monster cam in cuz I'm in California : ( Can I see 450ish RWHP with a Fast/LG's/heads/cam/pulley and tuning? I"m thinking 114 LSA is as far as I can go.
Thanks,
Phil
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,474
Likes: 2
From: Detroit
AFR's are a proven winner. They work great right out of the box. Plus when you say TEA you really need to say which heads from TEA. TEA can port/polish whatever you like. Which castings are you looking at?
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
Likes: 8
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
I personally feel that the AFR's are a little bit of an overkill in this situation. Being that your in Ca, you are limited to what you can do. (If you want to stay within the law.)
You can reach your stae limitations with just about ANY good set of ported LS6 heads.
If it were me, I would start with a nice set of ported/polished Patriot LS6, Dart 205's, or just plain ol LS6's.
Then do a nice cam. You will save probably a grand over and above the AFR's with darn near the exact same results. You could then take the money you saved and put it into another set of "Go fast parts"
Dont get me wrong, I run AFR 225's. But I wouldnt hesitate to run a good set of stage 2 ported LS6 heads. The ONLY reason I went with the AFR's is because of the thicker deck (For forced induction)
If it wasnt for that, I would have definately gone with the patriots.
You can reach your stae limitations with just about ANY good set of ported LS6 heads.
If it were me, I would start with a nice set of ported/polished Patriot LS6, Dart 205's, or just plain ol LS6's.
Then do a nice cam. You will save probably a grand over and above the AFR's with darn near the exact same results. You could then take the money you saved and put it into another set of "Go fast parts"
Dont get me wrong, I run AFR 225's. But I wouldnt hesitate to run a good set of stage 2 ported LS6 heads. The ONLY reason I went with the AFR's is because of the thicker deck (For forced induction)
If it wasnt for that, I would have definately gone with the patriots.
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 4
From: Livermore CA
The 205 is a better head hands down. You cant find the mid lit numbers from any other porter or head out there that you get with the AFR 205's. I would not hesitate to put them on. I also dont see why we could not build you a setup for cali with your goals in mind.
Rick
Rick
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Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
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From: Pasco WA
I think the TEA head he's referring to is the new Trickflow casting that TEA builds and sells alongside their own LS6 and 5.3 based heads. The TF head sells for about the same as a AFR, and though new and unproven, has more potential than the AFR, as it's built on a 13.5 degree angle, and comes stock with gold dbl springs and a 2.04 intake valve. The flow numbers out of TEA are extrordinary, but there's not enough sets out there on the streets for a reliable comparison. I have these heads, and will report on their effectiveness, (or not) as soon as I finish the install and then get it tuned.
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 4
From: Livermore CA
Originally Posted by zeevette
I think the TEA head he's referring to is the new Trickflow casting that TEA builds and sells alongside their own LS6 and 5.3 based heads. The TF head sells for about the same as a AFR, and though new and unproven, has more potential than the AFR, as it's built on a 13.5 degree angle, and comes stock with gold dbl springs and a 2.04 intake valve. The flow numbers out of TEA are extrordinary, but there's not enough sets out there on the streets for a reliable comparison. I have these heads, and will report on their effectiveness, (or not) as soon as I finish the install and then get it tuned.
something else you can do to help with your setup is have one of your heads flowed to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to do. I had all the different brands I use flowed to make sure they are not just bragging. The AFR's seemed to be the closest to what they said so far. Patriots for us being second as well.
Rick
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,506
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From: Hillsborough NJ
While I'm not suggesting we are comparing apples to apples, here is a write up of my recently completed LS2-402 that ECS did for me using ETP 215 heads. Of course, my car would never pass a test in California, 
the results with the ETP heads was impressive, to say the least.
Choice is a good thing.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1466385
the results with the ETP heads was impressive, to say the least. Choice is a good thing. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1466385
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
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From: Pasco WA
Originally Posted by ShooterMcgavin
afrs=good heads but you are paying for the name. Call up texas-speed and talk to those guys. They dont have the vette tax on their products.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 16,477
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From: Gone
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03
Originally Posted by ShooterMcgavin
afrs=good heads but you are paying for the name. Call up texas-speed and talk to those guys. They dont have the vette tax on their products.
If anything, I'd say AFR EXPOSED the "Vette tax", and all the tuners who made a killing porting LS6 castings quickly realized they could no longer sell them for what they had been.
btw, no flames towards them, but what heads does TSP manufacture themselves?
TSP's newest "Terminator" 200cc (Edelbrock castings) offering is right at $2k, so that's not much different than the AFR's. pricewise.
If you are comparing AFR pricetag to that of a $999 cnc ported LS6 casting, well, that's not even close to an apples to apples comparison is it?
AFR was the first to bring a truly NEW head to the LSx world. They earned their name from the quality and proven performance of their product. I don't recall their price increasing because they became popular.
AFR's ($2200 for the 205s) most comparable competition now is the 200cc TSPs, ($2000), the 215cc ETP's ($2400), and the 215cc TEA/Trickflows ($2400). Their price isn't at all out-of line.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 3
From: San Jose Ca
I actually wasn't referring to the Trick Flow heads. I kept reading over and over about people using TEA Stage 2's or 3's. After doing more research, I now know those are LS6 heads that have been worked. Cost is 1600 (Stage 2 or 2.5) if you give them your LS6 heads or 800 more if you don't have any. That puts them in line with the AFR prices. So now the question is, are the Stage 2 or 2.5's equivalent to the AFR's?
I'm throwing on a 125HP dry nitrous kit - is that reason enough to choose the AFR's for the thicker deck or is that only a necessity on FI motors?
Rick, if you're still reading, I DO need to get out to your shop and discuss my options with you.
Thanks for everyone's input - I'm still learning some of this sheatt.
Phil
I'm throwing on a 125HP dry nitrous kit - is that reason enough to choose the AFR's for the thicker deck or is that only a necessity on FI motors?
Rick, if you're still reading, I DO need to get out to your shop and discuss my options with you.
Thanks for everyone's input - I'm still learning some of this sheatt.
Phil
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 4
From: Livermore CA
The port work on the AFR 205 is much better. You wont find another head on the market throwing out the same mid and low lift flow like the 205. The ETP is nice as well, but the part people start to forget is the peak flow dont mean crap on any of these heads. Our intake manifold will never let you flow it to the motor. Its simple. You see the big hype on the ETPs only because they have this monster high lift high flow chart, but who cares if you cant use it. At that point, even the patriots flow numbers will be the same on top. Its under the curve which makes the car feel alive.
Rick
Rick
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,313
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From: Livermore CA
Originally Posted by Y2Kvert4me
Interesting. It's funny how all the major tuners sold cnc ported LS6 heads for many years for $2-3k....until the AFR's arrived. Now you routinely see cnc'd LS6 heads for sub $1k. And big valve ones for $1200 or so.
If anything, I'd say AFR EXPOSED the "Vette tax", and all the tuners who made a killing porting LS6 castings quickly realized they could no longer sell them for what they had been.
btw, no flames towards them, but what heads does TSP manufacture themselves?
TSP's newest "Terminator" 200cc (Edelbrock castings) offering is right at $2k, so that's not much different than the AFR's. pricewise.
If you are comparing AFR pricetag to that of a $999 cnc ported LS6 casting, well, that's not even close to an apples to apples comparison is it?
AFR was the first to bring a truly NEW head to the LSx world. They earned their name from the quality and proven performance of their product. I don't recall their price increasing because they became popular.
AFR's ($2200 for the 205s) most comparable competition now is the 200cc TSPs, ($2000), the 215cc ETP's ($2400), and the 215cc TEA/Trickflows ($2400). Their price isn't at all out-of line.
If anything, I'd say AFR EXPOSED the "Vette tax", and all the tuners who made a killing porting LS6 castings quickly realized they could no longer sell them for what they had been.
btw, no flames towards them, but what heads does TSP manufacture themselves?
TSP's newest "Terminator" 200cc (Edelbrock castings) offering is right at $2k, so that's not much different than the AFR's. pricewise.
If you are comparing AFR pricetag to that of a $999 cnc ported LS6 casting, well, that's not even close to an apples to apples comparison is it?
AFR was the first to bring a truly NEW head to the LSx world. They earned their name from the quality and proven performance of their product. I don't recall their price increasing because they became popular.
AFR's ($2200 for the 205s) most comparable competition now is the 200cc TSPs, ($2000), the 215cc ETP's ($2400), and the 215cc TEA/Trickflows ($2400). Their price isn't at all out-of line.
Best responce I ever heard.
You will still see some shops out there charging 3K plus for custom porting and still dont come close to the claims they say they are. And most of the shops wont even give you a flow sheet?
I see it this way. If you want a good opinion, ask the shops. Why? Because speed shops spend the time and money in buying everyones products and trying them. The average Joe will not. The average Joe has only bought one set of heads and never had to go through some of the crap that vendors have to go through when buying from other vendors to only learn the hard way about what works and what does not.
Rick
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
Likes: 291
From: Pasco WA
Originally Posted by Synergy Motorsports
The port work on the AFR 205 is much better. You wont find another head on the market throwing out the same mid and low lift flow like the 205. Its under the curve which makes the car feel alive.
Rick
Rick
Gee, could it be you sell the AFRs, Rick? Besides that, your above statement is simply not true. The mid lift #s for the Trickflows is WAY better than the AFRs. I've posted the actual numbers on my heads that were shipped over @ LS1tech.com, and the exhaust is especially impressive. Time will tell how they perform, but I'm confident they'll be the new benchmark.
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 4
From: Livermore CA
Originally Posted by zeevette
Gee, could it be you sell the AFRs, Rick? Besides that, your above statement is simply not true. The mid lift #s for the Trickflows is WAY better than the AFRs. I've posted the actual numbers on my heads that were shipped over @ LS1tech.com, and the exhaust is especially impressive. Time will tell how they perform, but I'm confident they'll be the new benchmark.
Actually, I sell everything. I only push the AFR's because of the numbers that I have seen on the same flow bench. If you have some numbers you could share with us to back up what those heads do, then it would be a great comparison for us all.
rick