Some Helpful Brake Tips on Rotors and Pads
03-16-2008, 08:42 PM
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Some Helpful Brake Tips on Rotors and Pads
I know it can be hard to find what brakes you need for your car and there isn't an easy way to find out. When it comes to brake pads it some times is just trail and error. Most of the time you just need to find what best fits you car and your needs. If you are just driving your car on the street and a coupe of tack days a year then the big brake kits are most likely over kill. This kits can't hurt and can look very cool but you will need a big wallet to justify buying these brakes.
I think one thing that the average guy doesn't know is that real racers have sponsors and they change parts that wear done fast like brakes all the time. Also a lot of the time the better performing pads like pads, brake fluid and drilled, dimpled and slotted rotors have their draw backs. I will get into this later on but this is why racers can sacrifice life of parts for performance, they have the money to back it.
I am going to cover rotors and pads and talk a little about other things. I will stick to rotors and pads mostly because this is what most people buy to get better stopping. I will also cover some tips on the install and break in periods.
Rotors
First off I am going to cover rotors because they are the easiest thing to cover and there are a lot of different rumors about the different styles.
Chevy gave C5 a very welled designed brake and they used the same rotors on all the C5s, even if you have a Z06. Both the front and rear brakes are vented Curved-vanes for better venting. These vanes act as a fan pulling hot air from the hub and shooting it into the wheel well.
Cross-Drilled Rotors
Drilled rotors definitely give your rotor a high performance look but they also serve a purpose. Drills were originally put into rotors in the 50s because the pads they used back then created a lot of gases when at high temperatures. These holes would let the gases escape from between the pad and the surface of the rotor. The holes also allowed used brake pad materials to escape through the holes. In doing this you get a better connection between the pad and the rotor resulting in better stopping. Now this was in the 50s, in modern braking pads don't give off some much gas.
Another benefit of having holes in your rotor is that it gives a place for the pad to bite. Once again pads of today have good bite. Bite is the time it takes for the brakes to really start working front the time you press the pedal. When racing the later you can let off gas the better advantage you have over the other drivers.
Because they are still helping out the same way they did when they 1st started but on a much smaller scale they have stuck around for all these years.
One other things the holes help do and especially on C5's well vented rotors is allow for better cooling.
The down side of drills is that you raise the thermal stress which can lead to cracking.
Some things to look for when buying drilled rotor are that all the holes are chamfered and that none of the drills go through the vanes. The chamfer will help slow down the cracking. If the vanes are drilled through you are weakening the structure of the rotor. One other thing that is helpful is when the entire surface of the pad hits a drill hole. If some parts of the pads don't hit a hole they will be worn down at a slower rate and you will form grooves in your rotors.
On cars that are just used for street use you should be okay with he drills. If you drive your car hard you might want second think the drills. They definitely look cool but you can replace the holes with dimples.
Slots
Slotting a rotor does a lot of the same things as cross drilling a rotor. They allow a smaller amount of gases out and with today's pads you don't get a lot of gases built up. Slots also give the brakes more bite. The best thing slots do is they resurface the pad every time they pass over the slot. This eliminates glazing over the rotors which will make the braking very poor. The down side of always having a shaving down your pad for better stopping is that you do wear through pads faster.
Slots come in all different styles and patterns. They all do the same thing, some may work better but I have not seen any proof of which work the best. (if anyone has proof it would be great to post it here for everyone to see)
One thing to look out for with slots are that the slot should not run all the way off the surface of the rotor. This allows a likely place for cracks to form.
Dimples
Dimples give the look of drills and act as tiny slots. They don't cool the rotor like drilled do but they definitely look as cool as drills. Because a dimple is basically a chamfer with out a hole you don't have to look for chamfers on them and they don't go far enough in to hit the vanes you don't have to worry about where they are places. Like the drills the entire pad should hit a dimple to avoid grooves from forming in your rotors.
Cryogenic Treatment
This seems to be a growing thing for rotors these days. For those of you that don't know how it works I will tel you a little but how it works. Everyone that offers this does it little bit different. What they have to do is slowly bring rotor to around -300 degrees F and then slowly bring it back to room temperature. Now they claim by doing this the rotor will wear down slower, less likely to crack and the pads will last longer. It is said that the rotor can last up to three times longer. If this works than it a great thing to do to rotors but none of the claims are backed by scientific or quantitative engineering studies showing it last long or doesn't last as long as an untreated rotor. There is nothing wrong with getting your rotors treated if you feel like paying for it.
Brake Pads
Some things about brake pads before I get into the different types that will help your braking are shims, and Lubricants. Shims will help from heat of the brakes transferring to the brake fluid. If you get the brake fluid to boil you brake will suffer. Shims also help keep squeaking and noise down. Lubricants also help keep the noise down but because it is a liquid it will only help for so long. The lubricant really helps in free motion between brake pads and its mounts. Pads also have chamfer and slots like some rotors have. The chamfer can help with eliminating noise but gives you less friction surface. Slots help give the braking more bite. They also help with expanding and contracting with different temperatures.
Pads can be very confusing because there is not an industries standard in the different names of pads. Companies can really call the pad what ever they want just as long as it has a little bit of that element in it.
Semi-Metallic Pads
Semi metallic pads are made from ferrous metals or iron. These materials increase operating temperature ranges. Because of the higher temperatures they can handle they are used in a lot of high performance applications. The downside of these pads are because they use these abrasive materials the wear the rotors down a lot faster. ( I know you guys are thinking this is wrong and that ceramic pads wear down rotors faster just keep reading and you will see why there is a big misunderstanding in pads)
Non-Asbestos Organic Pads
Most organic pads do not have ferrous compounds in the pad itself. Some companies put copper in the pads to act as a lubricant. Because they use these materials they don't not work as well at higher temperatures but they make less noise and have a smooth stopping feel to them. A lot of car manufactures use these pads on there cars because of this pads qualities.
Ceramic Pads
Ceramic pads are not just make of ceramic unless they say so as in race cars. And they are not made from old bath room sinks, toilets and tubs. Most ceramic pads are a mixture of ferrous, organic materials and ceramic powder. Because there is no industries standard there is no way to tell how much ceramic powder is put into each pad. The ceramic pad like the organic pad is a quieter pad but because it has ferrous materials in it can be an abrasive pad and wear done the rotor faster too. Because we don't know the mixtures some ceramic pads will wear rotors down faster than others. This pad is the middle of the road pad between organic pads and semi metallic pads. It has better stopping power than organic and less than semi metallic. This is really just a tricky pad because you don't no how far you are away form organic and semi metallic. One thing you will almost always get is a low dust pad with good street and performance qualities.
Some good companies are Hawk, Akebono and Performance Friction
Exotic Material Pads
There are a few different types of exotic pads. Carbon pads are the most common right now. They are made up of semi metallic pads and carbon. They are great with heat which leads to less brake fade. They are great for a car that goes to the track and is driven on the road. But like semi metallic pads remember the rotor life is shorter.
Another type of exotic pad is the Kevlar pads. It has a cool name but because Kevlar has a low melting point they are not that great for high performance cars.
The last one is Titanium pads. Titanium has a high melting point but does not dissipate heat very well. It also wears down a lot faster. Once again a cool name but hard to find and not very helpful.
Rotor install
When putting your new or old rotors on make sure that the hub they are going onto is clean and has no corrosion or other junk on them. A little time taken to clean these with Scotch-Brite on the surface and around the studs will prevent problems latter on.
Make sure when you put your lug nuts back on you tighten every other nut until they are all tighten. It also helps to just tighten them a little bit at a time and keep repeating the tightening pattern until they are tighten to manufactures torque specs. If you over tighten them you can cause damage to the rotor which can lead to brake vibrations later on.
Pad install
This is a great time to inspect your brakes. Take the time to look and the rotor, caliper, brake lines and any brake hardware. It is a good idea to use a brake lubricant which I explained a little about before. Make sure your brake lines are not dried out and cracking. If water gets into the hydraulic system it will low your brake fluid temperates. On this note it is always a good idea to get your fluid changed every once in a while. Dark fluid means it is being over heated and if your pedal feels spongy there might be water in the system. One last thing on brake fluid, DOT 5 isn't the best fluid because of the big number. It will eat away your stock lines. There is a DOT 5.1 that works just as good as DOT 5.
Brake hardware should be replaced from time to time as well. Without your brakes your car is useless, especially when it is crashed into something so take the time to look over these things.
This is something that is almost always overlooked. I know because I sell brake parts and if anyone ever has a problem with there parts I will ask if they broke in there new parts and the answer is almost always no. There are two different ways to do this.
Burnishing the Brake
This is done when you buy new pads and use them with old rotors or new rotors with old pads. The old parts will have an uneven surface while the new part has a very flat surface. You want to try to get both of them as flat as possible. You can achieve this with everyday driving, you want to do normal stopping from lower speeds. You don't want to over heat the parts in this period because you might transfer the old uneven surface onto both. This only takes up to a few hundred stops before you are ready to go.
Bedding the Brake
You normally do this when you have new rotors and new pads or if you just finished burnishing your brake with old brake hardware. To do this you want to brake are high speeds and not come to a complete stop to not get the brake to hot. You are once again transferring surfaces from the pad and the rotor. You want to do this a few times just to make sure the transfer is complete. This will help make your brake last longer. If the parts you buy tell you how to brake them in always do what they say.
If you are still not sure how to do this here is a good step by step for a stock brake system with street type pads. You should brake from about 60 mph down to 10 mph and this should get the brakes hot enough for one bed cycle. Repeat this 6 to 8 times without giving your brakes time to cool down. You want to brake hard but not a panic stop. You don't want the ABS to kick in. You know when you don't notice the light turn yellow and you decide to stop and not blow there it even though you just stop in time, something like that will work. Now the hard part is where do you find a spot to do this.....
Well that's about it. I hole this helps everyone when they are looking for what brakes to buy. If anyone wants to put there input on this or little tricks they have found that works do so. But please don't tell people to do things you have a feeling works and you are not for sure. I know some people don't know what to buy when it comes to brake and because I sell them I know a thing or two about them so I just want to help.
Now that I have helped you take the time to check out some things that I sale and maybe you can help me and buy some.
You can search "brakedesigns" to see our current price and threads. Be sure to check back from time to time. We are going to put up a lot more options for you guys soon and some great package deals too.
Thanks
Vic
Brake Designs
vic@brakedesigns.com
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1885012
P.S.
This took a long time to type all of this and I did not re read it all so if there is a few things wrong please take the time to PM so I can fix them. Please don't trash talk me for something so little. I am not a writer nor am I that great of a speller but I thought it would be nice to do this for you guys.
Thanks
I think one thing that the average guy doesn't know is that real racers have sponsors and they change parts that wear done fast like brakes all the time. Also a lot of the time the better performing pads like pads, brake fluid and drilled, dimpled and slotted rotors have their draw backs. I will get into this later on but this is why racers can sacrifice life of parts for performance, they have the money to back it.
I am going to cover rotors and pads and talk a little about other things. I will stick to rotors and pads mostly because this is what most people buy to get better stopping. I will also cover some tips on the install and break in periods.
Rotors
First off I am going to cover rotors because they are the easiest thing to cover and there are a lot of different rumors about the different styles.
Chevy gave C5 a very welled designed brake and they used the same rotors on all the C5s, even if you have a Z06. Both the front and rear brakes are vented Curved-vanes for better venting. These vanes act as a fan pulling hot air from the hub and shooting it into the wheel well.
Cross-Drilled Rotors
Drilled rotors definitely give your rotor a high performance look but they also serve a purpose. Drills were originally put into rotors in the 50s because the pads they used back then created a lot of gases when at high temperatures. These holes would let the gases escape from between the pad and the surface of the rotor. The holes also allowed used brake pad materials to escape through the holes. In doing this you get a better connection between the pad and the rotor resulting in better stopping. Now this was in the 50s, in modern braking pads don't give off some much gas.
Another benefit of having holes in your rotor is that it gives a place for the pad to bite. Once again pads of today have good bite. Bite is the time it takes for the brakes to really start working front the time you press the pedal. When racing the later you can let off gas the better advantage you have over the other drivers.
Because they are still helping out the same way they did when they 1st started but on a much smaller scale they have stuck around for all these years.
One other things the holes help do and especially on C5's well vented rotors is allow for better cooling.
The down side of drills is that you raise the thermal stress which can lead to cracking.
Some things to look for when buying drilled rotor are that all the holes are chamfered and that none of the drills go through the vanes. The chamfer will help slow down the cracking. If the vanes are drilled through you are weakening the structure of the rotor. One other thing that is helpful is when the entire surface of the pad hits a drill hole. If some parts of the pads don't hit a hole they will be worn down at a slower rate and you will form grooves in your rotors.
On cars that are just used for street use you should be okay with he drills. If you drive your car hard you might want second think the drills. They definitely look cool but you can replace the holes with dimples.
Slots
Slotting a rotor does a lot of the same things as cross drilling a rotor. They allow a smaller amount of gases out and with today's pads you don't get a lot of gases built up. Slots also give the brakes more bite. The best thing slots do is they resurface the pad every time they pass over the slot. This eliminates glazing over the rotors which will make the braking very poor. The down side of always having a shaving down your pad for better stopping is that you do wear through pads faster.
Slots come in all different styles and patterns. They all do the same thing, some may work better but I have not seen any proof of which work the best. (if anyone has proof it would be great to post it here for everyone to see)
One thing to look out for with slots are that the slot should not run all the way off the surface of the rotor. This allows a likely place for cracks to form.
Dimples
Dimples give the look of drills and act as tiny slots. They don't cool the rotor like drilled do but they definitely look as cool as drills. Because a dimple is basically a chamfer with out a hole you don't have to look for chamfers on them and they don't go far enough in to hit the vanes you don't have to worry about where they are places. Like the drills the entire pad should hit a dimple to avoid grooves from forming in your rotors.
Cryogenic Treatment
This seems to be a growing thing for rotors these days. For those of you that don't know how it works I will tel you a little but how it works. Everyone that offers this does it little bit different. What they have to do is slowly bring rotor to around -300 degrees F and then slowly bring it back to room temperature. Now they claim by doing this the rotor will wear down slower, less likely to crack and the pads will last longer. It is said that the rotor can last up to three times longer. If this works than it a great thing to do to rotors but none of the claims are backed by scientific or quantitative engineering studies showing it last long or doesn't last as long as an untreated rotor. There is nothing wrong with getting your rotors treated if you feel like paying for it.
That should give you a good understanding of what rotors you should get for your car. Now lets move onto brake pads.
Brake Pads
Some things about brake pads before I get into the different types that will help your braking are shims, and Lubricants. Shims will help from heat of the brakes transferring to the brake fluid. If you get the brake fluid to boil you brake will suffer. Shims also help keep squeaking and noise down. Lubricants also help keep the noise down but because it is a liquid it will only help for so long. The lubricant really helps in free motion between brake pads and its mounts. Pads also have chamfer and slots like some rotors have. The chamfer can help with eliminating noise but gives you less friction surface. Slots help give the braking more bite. They also help with expanding and contracting with different temperatures.
Pads can be very confusing because there is not an industries standard in the different names of pads. Companies can really call the pad what ever they want just as long as it has a little bit of that element in it.
Semi-Metallic Pads
Semi metallic pads are made from ferrous metals or iron. These materials increase operating temperature ranges. Because of the higher temperatures they can handle they are used in a lot of high performance applications. The downside of these pads are because they use these abrasive materials the wear the rotors down a lot faster. ( I know you guys are thinking this is wrong and that ceramic pads wear down rotors faster just keep reading and you will see why there is a big misunderstanding in pads)
Non-Asbestos Organic Pads
Most organic pads do not have ferrous compounds in the pad itself. Some companies put copper in the pads to act as a lubricant. Because they use these materials they don't not work as well at higher temperatures but they make less noise and have a smooth stopping feel to them. A lot of car manufactures use these pads on there cars because of this pads qualities.
Ceramic Pads
Ceramic pads are not just make of ceramic unless they say so as in race cars. And they are not made from old bath room sinks, toilets and tubs. Most ceramic pads are a mixture of ferrous, organic materials and ceramic powder. Because there is no industries standard there is no way to tell how much ceramic powder is put into each pad. The ceramic pad like the organic pad is a quieter pad but because it has ferrous materials in it can be an abrasive pad and wear done the rotor faster too. Because we don't know the mixtures some ceramic pads will wear rotors down faster than others. This pad is the middle of the road pad between organic pads and semi metallic pads. It has better stopping power than organic and less than semi metallic. This is really just a tricky pad because you don't no how far you are away form organic and semi metallic. One thing you will almost always get is a low dust pad with good street and performance qualities.
Some good companies are Hawk, Akebono and Performance Friction
Exotic Material Pads
There are a few different types of exotic pads. Carbon pads are the most common right now. They are made up of semi metallic pads and carbon. They are great with heat which leads to less brake fade. They are great for a car that goes to the track and is driven on the road. But like semi metallic pads remember the rotor life is shorter.
Another type of exotic pad is the Kevlar pads. It has a cool name but because Kevlar has a low melting point they are not that great for high performance cars.
The last one is Titanium pads. Titanium has a high melting point but does not dissipate heat very well. It also wears down a lot faster. Once again a cool name but hard to find and not very helpful.
Now onto some helpful tips on getting the best out of your brakes.
Rotor install
When putting your new or old rotors on make sure that the hub they are going onto is clean and has no corrosion or other junk on them. A little time taken to clean these with Scotch-Brite on the surface and around the studs will prevent problems latter on.
Make sure when you put your lug nuts back on you tighten every other nut until they are all tighten. It also helps to just tighten them a little bit at a time and keep repeating the tightening pattern until they are tighten to manufactures torque specs. If you over tighten them you can cause damage to the rotor which can lead to brake vibrations later on.
Pad install
This is a great time to inspect your brakes. Take the time to look and the rotor, caliper, brake lines and any brake hardware. It is a good idea to use a brake lubricant which I explained a little about before. Make sure your brake lines are not dried out and cracking. If water gets into the hydraulic system it will low your brake fluid temperates. On this note it is always a good idea to get your fluid changed every once in a while. Dark fluid means it is being over heated and if your pedal feels spongy there might be water in the system. One last thing on brake fluid, DOT 5 isn't the best fluid because of the big number. It will eat away your stock lines. There is a DOT 5.1 that works just as good as DOT 5.
Brake hardware should be replaced from time to time as well. Without your brakes your car is useless, especially when it is crashed into something so take the time to look over these things.
Break in or Bedding in
This is something that is almost always overlooked. I know because I sell brake parts and if anyone ever has a problem with there parts I will ask if they broke in there new parts and the answer is almost always no. There are two different ways to do this.
Burnishing the Brake
This is done when you buy new pads and use them with old rotors or new rotors with old pads. The old parts will have an uneven surface while the new part has a very flat surface. You want to try to get both of them as flat as possible. You can achieve this with everyday driving, you want to do normal stopping from lower speeds. You don't want to over heat the parts in this period because you might transfer the old uneven surface onto both. This only takes up to a few hundred stops before you are ready to go.
Bedding the Brake
You normally do this when you have new rotors and new pads or if you just finished burnishing your brake with old brake hardware. To do this you want to brake are high speeds and not come to a complete stop to not get the brake to hot. You are once again transferring surfaces from the pad and the rotor. You want to do this a few times just to make sure the transfer is complete. This will help make your brake last longer. If the parts you buy tell you how to brake them in always do what they say.
If you are still not sure how to do this here is a good step by step for a stock brake system with street type pads. You should brake from about 60 mph down to 10 mph and this should get the brakes hot enough for one bed cycle. Repeat this 6 to 8 times without giving your brakes time to cool down. You want to brake hard but not a panic stop. You don't want the ABS to kick in. You know when you don't notice the light turn yellow and you decide to stop and not blow there it even though you just stop in time, something like that will work. Now the hard part is where do you find a spot to do this.....
Well that's about it. I hole this helps everyone when they are looking for what brakes to buy. If anyone wants to put there input on this or little tricks they have found that works do so. But please don't tell people to do things you have a feeling works and you are not for sure. I know some people don't know what to buy when it comes to brake and because I sell them I know a thing or two about them so I just want to help.
Now that I have helped you take the time to check out some things that I sale and maybe you can help me and buy some.
You can search "brakedesigns" to see our current price and threads. Be sure to check back from time to time. We are going to put up a lot more options for you guys soon and some great package deals too.
Thanks
Vic
Brake Designs
vic@brakedesigns.com
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1885012
P.S.
This took a long time to type all of this and I did not re read it all so if there is a few things wrong please take the time to PM so I can fix them. Please don't trash talk me for something so little. I am not a writer nor am I that great of a speller but I thought it would be nice to do this for you guys.
Thanks
Last edited by BrakeDesigns; 03-16-2008 at 09:08 PM.
03-16-2008, 09:13 PM
#2
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Member Since: Apr 2007
Location: Nashua NH
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Thank you for the brake primer. It is hard to find good info on the different options available. I have to wonder why an independent testing resourse hasn't done quantitative testing on the different brake combos that are out on the market. It would help us and vendors like yourself. Mostly all I can find is info from manufacturers who have an interest in selling their own stuff. I just spent several days reading everything I could on brakes. I purchased dimpled/slotted rotors that were cryogenic treated. I haven't purchased pads yet, so I'll check out your site. Just looking for good stopping with normal street driving. Thanks again.
PS- just have someone read your post and do some minor editing and it will be even better. you did a good job.
PS- just have someone read your post and do some minor editing and it will be even better. you did a good job.
03-16-2008, 10:59 PM
#5
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I think American rotors are great and if you can get them do so and tell me where you got them. Be careful because it might just be an American company with Chinese rotors. Now I know companies like Aimco have some good Chinese rotors but they are black powder coated now and I like selling zinc rotors because they prevent rust a little better.
You know come to think about I really should offer them to you guys.
You know come to think about I really should offer them to you guys.
Last edited by BrakeDesigns; 03-16-2008 at 11:03 PM.
03-19-2008, 09:59 AM
#6
Race Director
Vic, nice post. What can you do to cure a chronic brake squeal condition? When I bought my '02 Z06 with 19K on the stock pads, no squeal (and they were dirty). I replaced the rotors and pads about 2 months ago with all new GM rotors and pads (went ceramic for low dust) and I keep getting a pronounced squeal from the right rear. Would a good bleeding of the system (the one thing I HAVE NOT done yet) cure this any? I've tried putting some of that brake pad orange/red "goo" on the backs of the pads to keep them from rattling/moving (TWICE) and that hasn't worked either time. I also bought some grease specifically for caliper pins and re-greased them.
I keep reading posts here that C5 brake squeal is "normal"...well, I'm not buying that. This squeal is getting downright annoying.
EDIT: Car is a daily driver (40-45 miles/day, 5 days/week)
Any assistance on this issue would be greatly appreciated!
-Dean
I keep reading posts here that C5 brake squeal is "normal"...well, I'm not buying that. This squeal is getting downright annoying.
EDIT: Car is a daily driver (40-45 miles/day, 5 days/week)
Any assistance on this issue would be greatly appreciated!
-Dean
Last edited by BaseballDude; 03-19-2008 at 10:43 AM.
06-02-2008, 12:57 PM
#9
Race Champion
I was actually searching for a DIY rotor and brake pad thread. But this one seems close. 
Vic seems to know his brakes. My C5 Z06 has 42K miles.
I plan to change all four rotors and install new "street-use" pads. The (original) rotors are badly "lipped", and I just don't like to ride on "turned" rotors.
I have the ramps and the proper jacking and jack stand procedure.
I plan to clean the old caliper bolts and re-install with the proper locktight. Upon a quick inspection, the brake hoses seemed to be in good shape.
I have always previously flushed out the old (original) brake fluid and installed new brake fluid. I believe GM calls for DOT3 or DOT4? Vic, I thought DOT5 wasn't recommended?
Is there anything else? Will the emergency brake engagement be easy to re-adjust?
Vic seems to know his brakes. My C5 Z06 has 42K miles.I plan to change all four rotors and install new "street-use" pads. The (original) rotors are badly "lipped", and I just don't like to ride on "turned" rotors.
I have the ramps and the proper jacking and jack stand procedure.
I plan to clean the old caliper bolts and re-install with the proper locktight. Upon a quick inspection, the brake hoses seemed to be in good shape.
I have always previously flushed out the old (original) brake fluid and installed new brake fluid. I believe GM calls for DOT3 or DOT4? Vic, I thought DOT5 wasn't recommended?
Is there anything else? Will the emergency brake engagement be easy to re-adjust?
07-13-2008, 04:45 PM
#11
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Hmm some of that info is quite old and not well documented by un-bias sources.
When you go TO races and look at race cars, not just performance cars on dealers lots, you see something quite amazing. No Drilled rotors, minimal slots, or the use of J-slots or small dash slots and never cryo rotors.
D & S rotors are just fine for street use. and are put on cars for Marketing purposes only, the customers want them, not performance braking.
The search key is a good friend on this info.
DOT 5 brake fluid should NEVER be used on cars with ABS. As silicon does not absorbe water and foams up under heat and hard braking causing the brakes to lock up or freeze up is more like it and NOT stop your car.
DOT FIVE POINT ONE ( 5.1 ) can be used.
DOT 5.1 is not easy to find. Motul 600, ATF Blue or Gold 600 and the ultimate brake fluid Castrol SRF ( $80 / quart) are a few names.
DOT 4 is just fine for all use, Castrol LMA, Valvoine Synthtech ( sp?)
When you go TO races and look at race cars, not just performance cars on dealers lots, you see something quite amazing. No Drilled rotors, minimal slots, or the use of J-slots or small dash slots and never cryo rotors.
D & S rotors are just fine for street use. and are put on cars for Marketing purposes only, the customers want them, not performance braking.
The search key is a good friend on this info.
DOT 5 brake fluid should NEVER be used on cars with ABS. As silicon does not absorbe water and foams up under heat and hard braking causing the brakes to lock up or freeze up is more like it and NOT stop your car.
DOT FIVE POINT ONE ( 5.1 ) can be used.
DOT 5.1 is not easy to find. Motul 600, ATF Blue or Gold 600 and the ultimate brake fluid Castrol SRF ( $80 / quart) are a few names.
DOT 4 is just fine for all use, Castrol LMA, Valvoine Synthtech ( sp?)
07-14-2008, 09:02 AM
#12
Race Champion
I didn't buy the above referenced brake parts because I found much better information elsewhere.
When you go TO races and look at race cars..
Motul 600, ATF Blue or Gold 600 and the ultimate brake fluid Castrol SRF ( $80 / quart) are a few names.
A spec series that only allows modest horsepower and modifications only needs a good DOT3 brake fluid. A highly modified car racing in a series with little rules may require an exotic brake fluid. It depends on lap times.
I found that those exotic brake fluids have one drawback. If you spill any of any painted surface of your car, it will completely destroy the paint surface (quickly).
07-15-2008, 01:43 PM
#14
Race Champion
I agree, but some are more aggressive than others.
Some racing classes are faster than others and require a brake fluid that will stand up to the higher rotor temperatures. Some race classes are slower and don't require an aggressive high-temp fluid.
I know one thing that you'll agree with. The faster the lap times; the more money one must spend on every single item.
Oh yea, we can also agree of another fact: Racing gets more and more expensive every year.
Some racing classes are faster than others and require a brake fluid that will stand up to the higher rotor temperatures. Some race classes are slower and don't require an aggressive high-temp fluid.
I know one thing that you'll agree with. The faster the lap times; the more money one must spend on every single item.
Oh yea, we can also agree of another fact: Racing gets more and more expensive every year.
07-15-2008, 02:37 PM
#15
Race Director
This certainly was not true for me. At 6000 miles, I experienced the dreaded pulsating brake pedal. The dealership turned the rotors but at 12,000 miles, the pulsations returned. I came to find out that the pads were leaving non-symetrical deposits on the rotor. My solution was to replace the OEM plain-face rotors with PowerSlot rotors. The slots eliminate the uneven pad buildup, while keeping the pads "fresh". My stopping ability is always amazing and pad wear is very reasonable, even after agressive mountain driving.
One of my other cars, like the C5, doesn't pile on the mileage and I noticed that braking distances become longer and longer with each passing year. I'm certain that the pads are becoming burnished, such that friction between them and the rotors decrease with age. Slotted rotors would eliminate this performance slide, based upon my experience with my PowerSlots on the C5.
By the way, I did buy Cryo PowerSlots because I am convinced warping will be less likely an issue. And hey, I'd rather do other things than spending my weekend changing out rotors and pads or having the shop do this.
Last edited by Dave68; 07-15-2008 at 02:41 PM.
07-15-2008, 04:25 PM
#16
Racer
Member Since: May 2008
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Vic, nice post. What can you do to cure a chronic brake squeal condition? When I bought my '02 Z06 with 19K on the stock pads, no squeal (and they were dirty). I replaced the rotors and pads about 2 months ago with all new GM rotors and pads (went ceramic for low dust) and I keep getting a pronounced squeal from the right rear. Would a good bleeding of the system (the one thing I HAVE NOT done yet) cure this any? I've tried putting some of that brake pad orange/red "goo" on the backs of the pads to keep them from rattling/moving (TWICE) and that hasn't worked either time. I also bought some grease specifically for caliper pins and re-greased them.
I keep reading posts here that C5 brake squeal is "normal"...well, I'm not buying that. This squeal is getting downright annoying.
EDIT: Car is a daily driver (40-45 miles/day, 5 days/week)
Any assistance on this issue would be greatly appreciated!
-Dean
I keep reading posts here that C5 brake squeal is "normal"...well, I'm not buying that. This squeal is getting downright annoying.
EDIT: Car is a daily driver (40-45 miles/day, 5 days/week)
Any assistance on this issue would be greatly appreciated!
-Dean
07-15-2008, 04:37 PM
#17
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
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Ceramic brake pads have a place in the automotive industry, just not on pickup trucks and performance cars.
Best pads and rotors for street use are still the stock set.
I use Castrol SRF in the track car with STOCK brake rotors ( NAPA ) and Wilwood H brake pads on the track vette. Plus brake cooling ducts
On the stock street vette, it is Castrol LMA and stock rotors and stock brake pads.
In the 1500 HD pick up stock brake pads and rotors with Castrol LMA
