AFR 205 Heads Vs. Patriot Heads
06-24-2008, 07:14 AM
#41
Race Director
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajg1915
Never said there wasn't. Just trying to understand why you're so adamant that the playing field is level which ever track you go to.
That's not what I said, and you still don't get it or you just prefer not too.
Sure it is read your comment below. That your package is good anywhere however you acquiesced and stated that the same car was faster here than in Florida.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajg1915
I'm not really interested in an over the top system or pushing my car to the limit like some one here.
Our 2X with duration in the mid to high 220s at .050" is not what I and many of our customers would consider over the top and were still going in the mid to high 10s 5 years ago. The same "Cartek runs fast only on the North East" was said back then and about 5 of our customers decided to prove that this was not the case so they drove (not trailered)to Bradenton, FL for the Breathless shoot out and they ran 10s to low 11s there.
Julio
You just proved what the whole jist of the thread was about, your 10 second car here was in the high 10's low 11's in a different environment.
Originally Posted by ajg1915
Never said there wasn't. Just trying to understand why you're so adamant that the playing field is level which ever track you go to.
That's not what I said, and you still don't get it or you just prefer not too.
Sure it is read your comment below. That your package is good anywhere however you acquiesced and stated that the same car was faster here than in Florida.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajg1915
I'm not really interested in an over the top system or pushing my car to the limit like some one here.
Our 2X with duration in the mid to high 220s at .050" is not what I and many of our customers would consider over the top and were still going in the mid to high 10s 5 years ago. The same "Cartek runs fast only on the North East" was said back then and about 5 of our customers decided to prove that this was not the case so they drove (not trailered)to Bradenton, FL for the Breathless shoot out and they ran 10s to low 11s there.
Julio
You just proved what the whole jist of the thread was about, your 10 second car here was in the high 10's low 11's in a different environment.
06-24-2008, 02:55 PM
#42
Race Director
I agree, so please stop making comments like;
"CarTek has the luxury of being extremely close to one of the fastest tracks in the country (a few of them actually) and they typically see D/A's in the fall and winter months approaching and occasionally exceeding negative 2000 feet (an N/A combo is essentially supercharged at that point)."
This is implying that the reason Cartek cars run such low numbers is that we only run under these conditions. Leaving out that many others including AFR powered cars also run in the same NE tracks like ATCO, Etown or Cecil.
That is a valid "opinion", but as I said in the above post our 2X is a relatively mild setup and still achieves great performance gains, enough to run 10s idle at 800 rpm and still get 30 mpg.
I have some opinions of my own on the AFR 205 heads, but I prefer to keep my opinions to myself and out of sheer ethics I would prefer that you keep your opinions and comments about Cartek out of any posts.
I don't think any one would even begin to argue that a sea level track is not capable of lower ETs and faster trap speeds than a higher elevation track. It's just common sense.
Julio
"CarTek has the luxury of being extremely close to one of the fastest tracks in the country (a few of them actually) and they typically see D/A's in the fall and winter months approaching and occasionally exceeding negative 2000 feet (an N/A combo is essentially supercharged at that point)."
This is implying that the reason Cartek cars run such low numbers is that we only run under these conditions. Leaving out that many others including AFR powered cars also run in the same NE tracks like ATCO, Etown or Cecil.
That is a valid "opinion", but as I said in the above post our 2X is a relatively mild setup and still achieves great performance gains, enough to run 10s idle at 800 rpm and still get 30 mpg.
I have some opinions of my own on the AFR 205 heads, but I prefer to keep my opinions to myself and out of sheer ethics I would prefer that you keep your opinions and comments about Cartek out of any posts.
I don't think any one would even begin to argue that a sea level track is not capable of lower ETs and faster trap speeds than a higher elevation track. It's just common sense.
Julio
I think all Julio was getting at was that reading Tony's earlier post, it looked like he was implying that the ONLY reason Cartek cars got the results they did, is because they have the DA advantage of the east coast..when there are other cars running AFR heads on the east coast as well. BTW- I run AFR heads.... and a Cartek Clutch so I am neutral
06-24-2008, 03:14 PM
#43
Race Director
I think all Julio was getting at was that reading Tony's earlier post, it looked like he was implying that the ONLY reason Cartek cars got the results they did, is because they have the DA advantage of the east coast..when there are other cars running AFR heads on the east coast as well. BTW- I run AFR heads.... and a Cartek Clutch so I am neutral
Cartek and AFR heads are run on the East coast, but I think Tony's point was to explain why someone with the same set-up would do 10's on the East Coast would do 11's in the West coast due to the DA's.Cartek, ECS, Vette Doctors, etc are in a good location to the tracks for guys who like to race and post up times, however it's tough to compare to others who do not use the same race tracks.
It's all about applying consistent principles like a scientific test.
06-24-2008, 04:04 PM
#44
Former Vendor
Cartek and AFR heads are run on the East coast, but I think Tony's point was to explain why someone with the same set-up would do 10's on the East Coast would do 11's in the West coast due to the DA's.Cartek, ECS, Vette Doctors, etc are in a good location to the tracks for guys who like to race and post up times, however it's tough to compare to others who do not use the same race tracks.
It's all about applying consistent principles like a scientific test.
My 224 cammed stock displacement build (with our 205 heads) would have been deep in the 10's (10'6 ish) at say minus 1800 D/A (with about a 128 trap speed). My current solid roller 383 combo would have went low tens in the same conditions (trapping 133-134 or so).
Try that out here....
Thats why I prefer to quote dyno numbers....sure there are variables there too but at least it tries to correct for all the BS (if nobody is playing games) and actually allows a guy in Denver on a hot summer day to compare his results with a guy close to sea level in the middle of winter. ALL the air quality variables are addressed and the biggest point I was trying to make (not specific to anyone's brand of cylinder heads) is the difference D/A can make. To say everyone knows about that is a gross exaggeration by the way....I speak to alot of people and trust me that there are some alot more educated than others. The only thing they all have in common is they want to increase performance.
Also, sharing the quick story I did was meant to emphasize to even the guys that 100% understand the math and who take a very scientific approach to all of this as I do....that actually experiencing the difference in a car you know like the back of your hand is a very enlightening experience.
Anyway....I apologize if I ran this thread off course. It wasnt my intent to do so.
Tony
PS....This was a thread concerning AFR heads and Patriots right?
06-24-2008, 04:28 PM
#45
Melting Slicks
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Well, as stated this certainly took off in a wild direction. So, lets answer question #1. AFR vs Patriot. I would have to recommend the AFR's without question over a ported stock casting which is what the Patriot is. The AFR is just a better head for so many reasons.
Now with regards to some of the other points. I had the opportunity to race some Cartek 3x packaged cars on the same day at the same track. The Cartek cars performed very well, but ran no better than the H/C package that was in the car that I was driving at that time.
Since that time we've had the opportunity to swap to a set of AFR 205 heads on the car. I have outlined the swap, and the A to B comparison in this thread.
http://www1.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412609
We've attempted to run a number in the car a number of times since the swap was done. Each time the car has grenaded the rear end. After speding about $8000 on rear ends, and having nothing to show for it but a lot of scrap parts, the car probably isn't going back to the drag strip any time soon. But, 10.80's @ 128 in +2400 DA isn't too awfully bad.
As for DA, yes, in the winter we sometime get good weather. But its a pure stroke of luck to get a combination of good weather and a good night all in one night. Plus that sort of weather is very, very fleeting. In the Northeast, the window for "mineshaft air" seems to run a bit longer.
As an example with regards to the benefits of DA Lets look at it on a basically stock C5 Z06, a friend of mine Roger (Qksilver on here) ran his stock Z06 to a best of 11.405 @ 123.61 at HRP. His car had Nitto dr's on some chrome reproduction Z06 wheels, a vararam, and a clutch.
The air was a freakish low that night at over -1800's DA, and his times reflected it. This wasn't just one pass, his car ran multiple 11.4's that evening. But his times get left off the fastest Z's list beacuse he truthfully admitted he had replaced the stock clutch in the car.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...8&postcount=12
Now, how is a stock Z06 going to run 122 to 123 mph. The short answer is its going to need HP. -1800 DA gave Roger the HP to run some stupid fast numbers that night. Now, you go to a track anywhere that gets super low temps, high barometric pressure , and low humidity, and you are going to run a better time than a track where the DA is always positive and the conditions are less than optimal. NHRA recongizes this and has an altitude correction factor.
If you were to correct back many of the "hero" times and adjust for DA you can see they are more inline with times from other regions and locations with less favorable conditions.
This isn't to knock anyone's package, or to take away from anyone's accomplishments. Its just to point out a simple rule of physics which is colder denser air makes more power.
Now with regards to some of the other points. I had the opportunity to race some Cartek 3x packaged cars on the same day at the same track. The Cartek cars performed very well, but ran no better than the H/C package that was in the car that I was driving at that time.
Since that time we've had the opportunity to swap to a set of AFR 205 heads on the car. I have outlined the swap, and the A to B comparison in this thread.
http://www1.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412609
We've attempted to run a number in the car a number of times since the swap was done. Each time the car has grenaded the rear end. After speding about $8000 on rear ends, and having nothing to show for it but a lot of scrap parts, the car probably isn't going back to the drag strip any time soon. But, 10.80's @ 128 in +2400 DA isn't too awfully bad.
As for DA, yes, in the winter we sometime get good weather. But its a pure stroke of luck to get a combination of good weather and a good night all in one night. Plus that sort of weather is very, very fleeting. In the Northeast, the window for "mineshaft air" seems to run a bit longer.
As an example with regards to the benefits of DA Lets look at it on a basically stock C5 Z06, a friend of mine Roger (Qksilver on here) ran his stock Z06 to a best of 11.405 @ 123.61 at HRP. His car had Nitto dr's on some chrome reproduction Z06 wheels, a vararam, and a clutch.
The air was a freakish low that night at over -1800's DA, and his times reflected it. This wasn't just one pass, his car ran multiple 11.4's that evening. But his times get left off the fastest Z's list beacuse he truthfully admitted he had replaced the stock clutch in the car.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...8&postcount=12
Now, how is a stock Z06 going to run 122 to 123 mph. The short answer is its going to need HP. -1800 DA gave Roger the HP to run some stupid fast numbers that night. Now, you go to a track anywhere that gets super low temps, high barometric pressure , and low humidity, and you are going to run a better time than a track where the DA is always positive and the conditions are less than optimal. NHRA recongizes this and has an altitude correction factor.
If you were to correct back many of the "hero" times and adjust for DA you can see they are more inline with times from other regions and locations with less favorable conditions.
This isn't to knock anyone's package, or to take away from anyone's accomplishments. Its just to point out a simple rule of physics which is colder denser air makes more power.
06-24-2008, 11:27 PM
#46
Drifting
Wasn't the car you were running at the event disqualified for being under weight? You forgot to mention that the car you were driving had no exhaust and was on race gas and trailered to the event. Here is a video of you (the black C5) running against Brent (E-blue C5).
http://www.cartek.net/videos/brentswininsc.wmv
I can't even hear Brent's car over your open exhaust yet he still ran 3-4 mph faster than you all day.
06-25-2008, 12:00 AM
#47
Race Director
Really? LOL Gee J-Rod, it's amazing how you pop up in posts like this one. LOL.
Wasn't the car you were running at the event disqualified for being under weight? You forgot to mention that the car you were driving had no exhaust and was on race gas and trailered to the event. Here is a video of you (the black C5) running against Brent (E-blue C5).
http://www.cartek.net/videos/brentswininsc.wmv
I can't even hear Brent's car over your open exhaust yet he still ran 3-4 mph faster than you all day.
Wasn't the car you were running at the event disqualified for being under weight? You forgot to mention that the car you were driving had no exhaust and was on race gas and trailered to the event. Here is a video of you (the black C5) running against Brent (E-blue C5).
http://www.cartek.net/videos/brentswininsc.wmv
I can't even hear Brent's car over your open exhaust yet he still ran 3-4 mph faster than you all day.
The rest of the information that you posted up up is meaningless. As again this was all about the same set-up at different DA's.
Not a contest of AFR powered cars versus Cartek cars. You got a heck of a swelled head.
06-25-2008, 12:40 AM
#49
Race Director
All of this currrency devaluation is fueling higher materials and energy cost, really sucks.
06-25-2008, 12:41 AM
#50
Melting Slicks
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1. Tomy Mamo is a stand up guy and a great asset to the sport.
2. AFR's and the TrickFlows are excellent heads at a premium price.
3. My car is a daily driver that goes to road tracks and drag tracks
frequently (Year One's Road America Track Day was a blast!!)
4.I have Patriot 243 heads with double gold springs -62cc chambers.
5 They flow 300 cfm at .600
6.I got them for reasons of economics and I thought they would fit my
needs and they have.
7.With a 218/224 lsa115 comp cam;3.42 gears;Yank SS3600 tq; Kooks
1 3/4 headers the car runs 11.85 shifting at a conservative 6350 rpm's.
8.If I wanted more radical performance I would go with the new castings-
at twice the price and more for what I paid Gunner at Patriot for mine
2. AFR's and the TrickFlows are excellent heads at a premium price.
3. My car is a daily driver that goes to road tracks and drag tracks
frequently (Year One's Road America Track Day was a blast!!)
4.I have Patriot 243 heads with double gold springs -62cc chambers.
5 They flow 300 cfm at .600
6.I got them for reasons of economics and I thought they would fit my
needs and they have.
7.With a 218/224 lsa115 comp cam;3.42 gears;Yank SS3600 tq; Kooks
1 3/4 headers the car runs 11.85 shifting at a conservative 6350 rpm's.
8.If I wanted more radical performance I would go with the new castings-
at twice the price and more for what I paid Gunner at Patriot for mine
06-25-2008, 10:36 AM
#51
I would hardly call a few tenths of a second a big deal.
The rest of the information that you posted up up is meaningless. As again this was all about the same set-up at different DA's.
Not a contest of AFR powered cars versus Cartek cars. You got a heck of a swelled head.
The rest of the information that you posted up up is meaningless. As again this was all about the same set-up at different DA's.
Not a contest of AFR powered cars versus Cartek cars. You got a heck of a swelled head.
Let me spell it out for you…
Rule #1
The faster you go the more power you need to get down the track
Rule #2
Power required to go faster and faster is exponential. So 3 MPH difference between two 13 second cars is a lot less than the power difference between two 10 second cars separated by the amount of MPH or ET difference.
Point is that it is quite a large difference.
Other things to consider…
That day we were racing two cars which were about just as quick as each other, but were 2 totally different setups. One was a street car while the car driven by J-rod not only had what Julio said was missing from a “street car” and making the predetermined rules, but also was idling in excess of 2200 RPM and there was no second heads up match up because J-Rod’s car was hurt at the end of the day.
So much for our setups being aggressive in comparison
06-25-2008, 11:02 AM
#52
Le Mans Master
I would hardly call a few tenths of a second a big deal.
The rest of the information that you posted up up is meaningless. As again this was all about the same set-up at different DA's.
Not a contest of AFR powered cars versus Cartek cars. You got a heck of a swelled head.
The rest of the information that you posted up up is meaningless. As again this was all about the same set-up at different DA's.
Not a contest of AFR powered cars versus Cartek cars. You got a heck of a swelled head.
Weight means nothing?
A couple MPH means nothing?
A few tenths (when talking about 10 sec cars) means nothing?
What do you know????
06-25-2008, 12:06 PM
#54
Melting Slicks
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Ahhhh Julio its good to see you as well... 
My name got mentioned in the thread a few posts back. So, I commented. I tried to be as polite as possible, but it appears I will need to correct a few factual errors.
A couple of facts. You've made some huge deal in the post below about the fact that we dropped the rear exahust off the car. So what, the car was loud. We were at a drag race. The rules didn't say anything about having to have the exhaust on, so we dropped it. If that was an issue for you, you should have specified it in advance. It would have been no differnet if I had run cutouts on the car and opened them.
My runs early in the day were the same mph as Brent, the clutch began to slip on later passes, and the car slowed down. So, you assertion that all my passes were 3-4 mph slower is also false.
There were no rules about running race gas in the car either. So what if I had 104 racing unleaded in the car. Was there some reason I couldn't? Are you saying you were not running either Sunoco 94 (which we can't get) or you were not running 104 in your cars. Since you had fuel jugs out at the event, I suspect you had some sort of fuel in the car.
If you want to get nit picky, you ran the cars without an accessory belt when I ran with one... But, there was nothing about having to run one. So, as far as I am concerned its fair...
Our car came in on a trailer just as your cars did. We drove from Texas to S.C. which was about a 14 hrs drive. There is plenty of video and still photos from the track which shows all the trailers that Cartek folks used. Is it somehow ok for you to trailer a car halfway across the country, and it isn't ok for me?
As for the idle. You will remember this is within weeks of the first FAST90's coming to market. We had Nick William's Throttlebody #2 on the car. The second one ever built. Since that time folks have learned a great deal about how to get a 90MM TB to work on a car. At that time we were still learning about getting the idle correct. But, Julian incorrectly claims we were idling at 2200 rpm. That is a completely incorrect, and is a gross mistatement of fact as well. The car was idling at around 1200 rpm, not 2000 or 2200.
The car I drove ran a faster ET than your car that day. You claimed the car was too light, but we had just scaled the car before the pass, and it was fine. In additon, I had several witnesses who saw the scale reading. The car was at legal weight on my first pass which was the fastest I ran that day.
You had Cartek folks running the scale once passes began, and they intially had issues getting the scale to read consistently. Thus an incorrect assertion was made about the weight of the vehicle, and attempted to say my time did not count. It doens't change the fact I went quicker.
The fact of the matter is the car we brought went faster than you at your own event. Brent made 20 passes attempting to beat our 10.67, but again, that thing called DA got in the way. The DA went positive from where it was in the morning, and that unfortunate fact of physics gots in the way. The cars slowed down....
Don't get me wrong, Brent's a great driver, and I have plenty of respect for him. When we got up there to race I asked if he wanted to race, and he said he did not want to race me, and motioned me to go on. We did however end up getting paired up later in the day. I freely admit he beat me off the tree. You can see that in your video. He pulls 1 to 1.5 cars out of the hole on me. My reacation time on that run was just really, really poor on that pass.
That pass was also as I said once the clutch began to slip. The car went 126 and change in the morning, by that time it was down to 124mph. I still went a 10.99 to Brent's 10.94 with a slipping clutch, and an extra ballast to make sure the car didn't scale wrong again.
When we got back to Texas, the car was slipping horribly in 4th and 5th, we found that several of the bolts were backing out of the clutch, and we pulled the clutch and replaced it. But, thats drag racing...
If you want me to post up the videos of my 10.67 @ 126.17 I'll be happy to post a link to it here. Again, I enjoyed running you guys. But I think that it just further proves the fact that DA does matter. That on the same track on the same day things were a whole closer than had been portrayed previously on the internet.
Since that time we've had the opportunity to swap heads, and we've picked up time which is what I outlined in the thread I linked to... I think the AFR is a very good head, and I've seent that it actually helped the drivability of a big cammed car which is also what I outlined as well.
My name got mentioned in the thread a few posts back. So, I commented. I tried to be as polite as possible, but it appears I will need to correct a few factual errors.A couple of facts. You've made some huge deal in the post below about the fact that we dropped the rear exahust off the car. So what, the car was loud. We were at a drag race. The rules didn't say anything about having to have the exhaust on, so we dropped it. If that was an issue for you, you should have specified it in advance. It would have been no differnet if I had run cutouts on the car and opened them.
My runs early in the day were the same mph as Brent, the clutch began to slip on later passes, and the car slowed down. So, you assertion that all my passes were 3-4 mph slower is also false.
There were no rules about running race gas in the car either. So what if I had 104 racing unleaded in the car. Was there some reason I couldn't? Are you saying you were not running either Sunoco 94 (which we can't get) or you were not running 104 in your cars. Since you had fuel jugs out at the event, I suspect you had some sort of fuel in the car.
If you want to get nit picky, you ran the cars without an accessory belt when I ran with one... But, there was nothing about having to run one. So, as far as I am concerned its fair...
Our car came in on a trailer just as your cars did. We drove from Texas to S.C. which was about a 14 hrs drive. There is plenty of video and still photos from the track which shows all the trailers that Cartek folks used. Is it somehow ok for you to trailer a car halfway across the country, and it isn't ok for me?
As for the idle. You will remember this is within weeks of the first FAST90's coming to market. We had Nick William's Throttlebody #2 on the car. The second one ever built. Since that time folks have learned a great deal about how to get a 90MM TB to work on a car. At that time we were still learning about getting the idle correct. But, Julian incorrectly claims we were idling at 2200 rpm. That is a completely incorrect, and is a gross mistatement of fact as well. The car was idling at around 1200 rpm, not 2000 or 2200.
The car I drove ran a faster ET than your car that day. You claimed the car was too light, but we had just scaled the car before the pass, and it was fine. In additon, I had several witnesses who saw the scale reading. The car was at legal weight on my first pass which was the fastest I ran that day.
You had Cartek folks running the scale once passes began, and they intially had issues getting the scale to read consistently. Thus an incorrect assertion was made about the weight of the vehicle, and attempted to say my time did not count. It doens't change the fact I went quicker.
The fact of the matter is the car we brought went faster than you at your own event. Brent made 20 passes attempting to beat our 10.67, but again, that thing called DA got in the way. The DA went positive from where it was in the morning, and that unfortunate fact of physics gots in the way. The cars slowed down....
Don't get me wrong, Brent's a great driver, and I have plenty of respect for him. When we got up there to race I asked if he wanted to race, and he said he did not want to race me, and motioned me to go on. We did however end up getting paired up later in the day. I freely admit he beat me off the tree. You can see that in your video. He pulls 1 to 1.5 cars out of the hole on me. My reacation time on that run was just really, really poor on that pass.
That pass was also as I said once the clutch began to slip. The car went 126 and change in the morning, by that time it was down to 124mph. I still went a 10.99 to Brent's 10.94 with a slipping clutch, and an extra ballast to make sure the car didn't scale wrong again.
When we got back to Texas, the car was slipping horribly in 4th and 5th, we found that several of the bolts were backing out of the clutch, and we pulled the clutch and replaced it. But, thats drag racing...
If you want me to post up the videos of my 10.67 @ 126.17 I'll be happy to post a link to it here. Again, I enjoyed running you guys. But I think that it just further proves the fact that DA does matter. That on the same track on the same day things were a whole closer than had been portrayed previously on the internet.
Since that time we've had the opportunity to swap heads, and we've picked up time which is what I outlined in the thread I linked to... I think the AFR is a very good head, and I've seent that it actually helped the drivability of a big cammed car which is also what I outlined as well.
Last edited by J-Rod; 06-25-2008 at 12:09 PM.
06-25-2008, 01:58 PM
#55
Race Director
Weight means nothing?
I never said anything about weight, so no idea where this idiotic comment came from.
A couple MPH means nothing?
Did I say anything about MPH (aka Terminal Speed), again I don't think so.
A few tenths (when talking about 10 sec cars) means nothing?
Now this I did say and if you watch the video very carefully you'll see that the blue vette got a better start (launch) then the black vette and maintained that lead. The blue vette won because he had a better reaction to the tree lights.
What do you know???? :confused
I know enough, but I don't need to sit out here and boast about it or make derogatory comments about others that I don't even know anything about.
:
I never said anything about weight, so no idea where this idiotic comment came from.
A couple MPH means nothing?
Did I say anything about MPH (aka Terminal Speed), again I don't think so.
A few tenths (when talking about 10 sec cars) means nothing?
Now this I did say and if you watch the video very carefully you'll see that the blue vette got a better start (launch) then the black vette and maintained that lead. The blue vette won because he had a better reaction to the tree lights.
What do you know???? :confused
I know enough, but I don't need to sit out here and boast about it or make derogatory comments about others that I don't even know anything about.
:It's obvious that you're another CarTek fanatic and never read the jist of the post. It's about the same car, same driver and why their times and performance may differ from track to track based on DA's.
So why don't you work on your reading comprehension skills.
06-25-2008, 02:20 PM
#56
Race Director
To say that a few MPH faster is meaningless shows your complete lack of understanding of what it truly means.
Let me spell it out for you…
Rule #1
The faster you go the more power you need to get down the track
That depends on what kind of track you're talking about, quarter mile, yes. On a road race track no.
Rule #2
Power required to go faster and faster is exponential. So 3 MPH difference between two 13 second cars is a lot less than the power difference between two 10 second cars separated by the amount of MPH or ET difference.
I agree this is true for quarter mile runs, but not for top speed runs where aerodynamics come into play. I am much more interested in the latter (top speed).
Point is that it is quite a large difference.
Other things to consider…
That day we were racing two cars which were about just as quick as each other, but were 2 totally different setups. One was a street car while the car driven by J-rod not only had what Julio said was missing from a “street car” and making the predetermined rules, but also was idling in excess of 2200 RPM and there was no second heads up match up because J-Rod’s car was hurt at the end of the day.
I wasn't there and so I can't really comment.
So much for our setups being aggressive in comparison
Again I wasn't there, but wish I could have been.
Let me spell it out for you…
Rule #1
The faster you go the more power you need to get down the track
That depends on what kind of track you're talking about, quarter mile, yes. On a road race track no.
Rule #2
Power required to go faster and faster is exponential. So 3 MPH difference between two 13 second cars is a lot less than the power difference between two 10 second cars separated by the amount of MPH or ET difference.
I agree this is true for quarter mile runs, but not for top speed runs where aerodynamics come into play. I am much more interested in the latter (top speed).
Point is that it is quite a large difference.
Other things to consider…
That day we were racing two cars which were about just as quick as each other, but were 2 totally different setups. One was a street car while the car driven by J-rod not only had what Julio said was missing from a “street car” and making the predetermined rules, but also was idling in excess of 2200 RPM and there was no second heads up match up because J-Rod’s car was hurt at the end of the day.
I wasn't there and so I can't really comment.
So much for our setups being aggressive in comparison
Again I wasn't there, but wish I could have been.
Tekhombre ask that Cartek's name not be used (refered to) in the thread anymore, so I am trying to understand why you guys who did not want your name in the thread anymore keep doing so.
You've taken this thread way off of its original intent.
No one said any derogatory comments about Cartek yet you guys come on here and make personal and derogatory attacks, some sportsmanship.
06-25-2008, 04:17 PM
#57
Le Mans Master
I would hardly call a few tenths of a second a big deal.
The rest of the information that you posted up up is meaningless. As again this was all about the same set-up at different DA's.
Not a contest of AFR powered cars versus Cartek cars. You got a heck of a swelled head.
The rest of the information that you posted up up is meaningless. As again this was all about the same set-up at different DA's.
Not a contest of AFR powered cars versus Cartek cars. You got a heck of a swelled head.
Maybe you need some work on your reading skills. See the bold quote? That is from your post where you quoted somebody who listed ET, MPH, and weight. So what informtion in that post was meaningless if it wasn't ET, MPH, or weight? By "rest" I assumed it was everything posted. I didn't think I would have to dumb this down that much for you. I hope you understand now.
I don't think I mentioned Cartek in a while either. I just was pointing out the crap you have been posting all over this thread.
06-25-2008, 05:17 PM
#59
I love this thread! Now lets get down and dirty and do some drag racing dudes. Say there,the NMCA is coming to Miland Dragway on August 22-24 and hopefully there will be a LSX shoot out. The temperature should by close to 90 degress and the humidity will be very high also. I would estimating that the DA will be near + 4000' or higher. Here is the perfect opportunity for the east coast guys to show their stuff...unfortunately their 10.50 cars will suddenly become low 11.0x cars and the 11.0x cars will become 11.7x cars...just my humble opinion...and that goes for whoever the engine builder and tuner is!!!
06-25-2008, 05:23 PM
#60
Team Owner
The poor guy who started this thread probably moved to another forum on the internet, this was his third post and a simple question. Sure glad he didn't ask about headers
PS: Welcome to the forum
PS: Welcome to the forum