AWSOME 04

I have an 04 Vert with ARH 3/4" headers & a Katech Ported throttle body and a Z06 Air Box.

I'm thinking about getting the heads and cam changed next.

Has anyone done a comparison on the AFR 205 heads with the Patriot Stage 2 heads.

Any Help would be appreciated. I just had Danny Popp at McClusky Chevrolet tune my car. All I can say is "WOW" What a difference. The difference in the power and the power band was dramatically improved.
Needless to say, I was very impressed.

Thanks for your help.

Z28TOZO6

How about trick flows? They seem to be doing a lot of research. I would like to know how much you can get out of a set of lS6 heads also by doing a porting and valve job, new seals etc.

vettenuts

If you can afford them, AFR's all the way. They also carry a 50 state CARB EO# and I believe they are the only set of heads that do (at least aftermarket castings). Much thicker deck than GM castings and the smaller ports should provide more lively street driving as well.

0Jeff @ TPE

Pariots are a cheap (Inexpensive) set of heads.. They are good for inexpensive builds requiring a decent set of heads. Meaning something other than stock.

AFR's have by far the best customer service (Right up there with RPM Transmissions) But they lack in the moving forward with technology dept. Although some can say "Dont mess with perfection" But Tony himself has been able to make the AFR's flow better.

Trickflows are my favorite for NA combo's. They flow better than most, they are constantly trying to better their product, they have great customer service, and they include pushrods at no charge..

AWSOME 04

Thanks for your help. I am going to contact Trick Flow Heads Tomorrow.


Thanks

stormrider

Call East Coast Supercharging (ECS) they are a supporting vendor and sell Trick Flows

0Jeff @ TPE

So do I!!!

VIPERBLUELX

If you're wanting a CNC'd stock casting, TEA is the way to go.

zeevette

That's kind of ironic, because TEA does all the machine work for the TFS heads. They are great guys, and I've worked with them to get mine perfect with a couple of custom touches. AFR's are a great set of heads too, just a little behind the R&D curve in '08.

Z28TOZO6

will tea do a port and polish on stock Z06 heads? If not who is the best for that?

VIPERBLUELX

YES

VIPERBLUELX

Pretty sure TEA is owned by TFS, which is owned by Summit Racing,

nickolbag

Can't argue with the track results of Cartek heads. Just something else to consider.

9secondflat

i was watching HP TV this past weekend and they did a show on tfs...they went to the factory and showed them porting the ls tfs heads i house.... so whats the deal???? does tea do it or does tfs do it in house??

11sec_C5Z51

So far the Cartek headed LS6 cars are posting the fastest track times. I've seen plenty of AFR and TFS headed cars claiming 500rwhp posting 11.6+ @ 123-124 1/4 times.

vetteman9368

False, both companies are owned by the same person. however Summit does NOT own TFS on a corporate level

nickolbag

I've seen plenty of AFR/TFS cars go quicker than that but on average the Cartek equiped H/C cars always seem to be in front.

0Tony Mamo @ AFR

Track times are dependent on a zillion variables....driver....the car's suspension, tires, and set-up (is it optimized to attack the 1320), but the largest variable people seem to brainfart on is the actual track and its elevation.

CarTek has the luxury of being extremely close to one of the fastest tracks in the country (a few of them actually) and they typically see D/A's in the fall and winter months approaching and occasionally exceeding negative 2000 feet (an N/A combo is essentially supercharged at that point). My original 346 combo with a very optimized 224 small cam package made 475-480 RWHP on numerous dyno's here in southern CA and with typical D/A's in the positive 1000-2000 range (that's at some of the better local tracks) that power in a 3425 lb vehicle was worth low elevens at 124 MPH. Honestly if I launched the car with absolute disregard to the 100 mile ride home (which I would have preferred not being on the back of a flatbed for), the car would have easily gone in the high tens (were talking conservative 1.7's on the 60 foot times to turn an 11.20 or so).

Whats my point....take that same car and trailer it to Englishtown NJ on any given clear night in December and it would have went 10.60's at 128 MPH....maybe better on a negative 2000 or better type of evening.

Unfortunately dyno's have their share of variables as well (brand, type, proper calibration) but at the least they try to account for the biggest variable of all which is weather conditions. In a perfect world it lets a guy in Denver at 5000 feet compare to another guy's results at sea level by correcting for air pressure (baro), temp, humidity, etc. etc.

Track results are really only comparable if the two cars in question ran on the same track on the same day and then of course driver technique would still be a large factor.

BTW this doesn't discredit the fact the some of the cars that have left Cartek can run a number and obviously make some power....it's just meant to enlighten others that there is alot of variables when trying to compare track results (IMO they represent the worst comparative data)....far more variables than comparing similar dyno's from across the country assuming the dyno's and the operators that run them are all on the up and up and not playing games with the numbers.

Just some things to think about....

Regards,
Tony

PS....And while I'm at it, real world results would show that the guys that have maximized their AFR 205/225 heads have made as much power and gone just as quickly at the track as the TFS crowd and ETP's for that matter. All three represent the pinnacle in current aftermarket castings (cathedral design) CNC ported technology. It really comes down to who's three letters you prefer to have on the front of your cylinder heads. The AFR's advantage IMO is they are truly a direct replacement head so their install doesn't require any additional special parts or situations and they also have the benefit of being emissions legal....the only aftermarket Gen III head to do so. And if you guys are making your determination of who's heads are better based on advertised flow data, you really haven't spent enough time on these boards to realize how fruitless an exercise that is. There isn't even a industry accepted standard in advertising (unfortunately) and some companies are advertising or publishing information concerning their flow data on flowbenchs that read alot different than what I feel should be the industry standard which is still an SF600 SuperFlow (or a 1020 for that matter as well) because they pioneered the entire process and are simply much more popular. Why would a company opt to not publish spec's off a SuperFlow....one reason might be they do not have easy access to one, but other is they know that big flow numbers sell heads and most customers never check or verify. I could go on and on about this topic but suffice to say that if most people went to independent shops to test their cylinder heads 85% of them would leave with very deflated ego's. I have a very old thread on the "other" board ten pages long addressing just this particular situation.

Concerning the fact I have done additional porting to achieve better results with AFR heads....the reality is I can take ANY set of production CNC castings (no matter what brand) and improve upon them if I decide to take the time. As a cylinder head designer by trade that much is a given....alot of what Im addressing is actually related to the machining and stacking of tolerances in a production environment....that type of thing will be prevalent in anybody's CNC ported heads (some worse than others). The chamber modifications I have helped a few people with (which represent the more intrusive work I do and the most actual material removal) simply compliment's the fact a particular customer may now be bolting these heads on a larger bore motor although some of these gains would still be realized on a 3.900 bore engine as well (just wouldn't take full advantage of the additional work). Once again, I could do those same type of chamber mods to "Brand XYZ" and see similar results.

Lastly, to get right to the point, some of the advice you receive on these boards is driven by money (for example you might see a post recommending such and such product and oh yea then find out that particular poster happens to be a distributor for that product, others simply want to pimp a particular product because their buddies with that shop perhaps (the nutswinger factor), and then there are other "agenda's" that are sometimes more hidden. Bottom line is the Internet is a great place to educate yourself and gather alot of information....but you cant take everything you read at face value. The smarter guys dig deeper after seeing certain trends and look for truly independent validation to verify whether that is or isn't the case. The more research and digging you do, the higher the likelihood you will make a wise and informed decision....nobody wants to spend money twice and you guys would be surprised how many actually do.

And I was thinking when I started typing that this was going to be a quick reply.....

jdhommert

on the topic of porting heads....i sent out PM's to the top/most popular ls6 head porters in the country about porting my stock ls6 heads rather than buying new ones, and not one of them responded. About 5 diffrent shops.

0Tony Mamo @ AFR

They did you a favor....LOL

Your far better off with an aftermarket casting and a clean sheet or paper design. Porting a stock casting you can only go bigger in attempts to improve flow. Our 205 for example is 6 cc's smaller than an LS6 243 casting (the best GM cathedral offering) and outflows it by 50 CFM. You would have to open up a stock head 20 cc's or more before that happened and it would be far less efficient and less effective (wouldnt ram or pack the cylinders nearly as well) as the AFR 205 head I just mentioned. And then there is the whole throttle response and part throttle grunt the smaller 205 would destroy the other head if tested one against the other.

Save your money and buy a premium more efficient aftermarket CNC casting....you wont be disappointed that you did.

Tony