Nitrogen in tires
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 1
From: Douglasville Ga
It has been a while since I took Chemistry so I am not sure if the periodic table is still a scientific source of information? According to the periodic table the Atomic Radius of N is 65 pm and the Atomic Radius of O is 60 pm. Almost 10% more.
PM stands for picometer equal to one trillionth (1/1,000,000,000,000) of a meter. It is small for sure but almost 10% is almost 10%.
I should have thought of Stanley to get my measurements but I am a little to slow for that.
This is not a case but it is TPMS info from the manufacturers. Next time I pull one off with this type of damage I will mail it to you if you would like.
# Filling tires - When filling any tires the air supply should be clean and dry. This is exceptionally critical for TPMS tires as any sediment or moisture can affect the precision workings of the sensor and transmitting devices. Take care to blow off the area around the valve stem to rid the area of dirt. If a valve stem does not have a cap, gently blow air into the valve to remove any dirt or dust.
# Aerosol inflators with sealant - Using a can of aerosol tire inflator with sealant is not an option for TPMS. The gummy sealant will clog up the valve and pressure sensing port of the wheel sensor. The warning light will illuminate and you'll end up replacing the sensor.
Wrong, Nitrogen compressors filter water out. There is no special grade of Nitrogen for you car, just air that has Oxygen and other contaminates filtered out so you are left with ~98% Nitrogen.
I am in business to make money.
Air is not a bad thing but Nitrogen is better. Hopefully when you get your air the compressor tank has been drained regularly. I have automatic moisture drains on my compressors and the amount of water the nitrogen compressor takes out after that is surprising.
PM stands for picometer equal to one trillionth (1/1,000,000,000,000) of a meter. It is small for sure but almost 10% is almost 10%.
I should have thought of Stanley to get my measurements but I am a little to slow for that.
This is not a case but it is TPMS info from the manufacturers. Next time I pull one off with this type of damage I will mail it to you if you would like.
# Filling tires - When filling any tires the air supply should be clean and dry. This is exceptionally critical for TPMS tires as any sediment or moisture can affect the precision workings of the sensor and transmitting devices. Take care to blow off the area around the valve stem to rid the area of dirt. If a valve stem does not have a cap, gently blow air into the valve to remove any dirt or dust.
# Aerosol inflators with sealant - Using a can of aerosol tire inflator with sealant is not an option for TPMS. The gummy sealant will clog up the valve and pressure sensing port of the wheel sensor. The warning light will illuminate and you'll end up replacing the sensor.
Wrong, Nitrogen compressors filter water out. There is no special grade of Nitrogen for you car, just air that has Oxygen and other contaminates filtered out so you are left with ~98% Nitrogen.
I am in business to make money.
Air is not a bad thing but Nitrogen is better. Hopefully when you get your air the compressor tank has been drained regularly. I have automatic moisture drains on my compressors and the amount of water the nitrogen compressor takes out after that is surprising.
There is absolutely no data that shows Nitrogen diffuses through tires more slowly than oxygen. And the diameter of Molecule, as I have always read, is given in Angstroms, where a Nitrogen MOLECULE is 1.5 and an oxygen MOLECULE is 1.2 Angstrom, so yes there is a a size difference, but take into consideration that air is only 21% O2 and that size difference becomes very small. Also look at the fact that one Angstrom is the size of 1 Hydrogen atom, so you are talking the size difference of less than a Hydrogen atom. And if water in the air is a concern....surprise!!!! you can dry air to and places do that. All they do is move the air through a series of chillers becuase cold air holds less water than hot air. So i would say that Nitrogen is no better than air when filling your tires.
I can explain why a nitrogen molecule is less diameter than a hydrogen atom if I need to, but I REALLY didn't feel like typing that much.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,366
Likes: 249
From: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
I have never considered doing nitrogen in my cars, but in the last week I have had two different people I know bring the subject up to me. Both of them told me after installing nitrogen in their tires it felt like they had a suspension change and liked the way their car rode better. One friend told me he hasn't had to adjust his air pressure at all ever since he's done it. I'm still not convinced.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 1
From: Douglasville Ga
I have never considered doing nitrogen in my cars, but in the last week I have had two different people I know bring the subject up to me. Both of them told me after installing nitrogen in their tires it felt like they had a suspension change and liked the way their car rode better. One friend told me he hasn't had to adjust his air pressure at all ever since he's done it. I'm still not convinced.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,187
Likes: 6
From: Oakville Ontario,Canada
I run N2 in my track tires mainly because of the consistency. I know it wont expand to over 36 psi when hot and thats where I NEED to be. there IS a difference on how your car handles at 150mph braking hard and into a corner.
fwiw, if you do run N2 in your tires, make sure the shop that does it, puts it in correctly, which typically means they will purge and fill a few times in a non humid room environment.
For street use.... good ol air
fwiw, if you do run N2 in your tires, make sure the shop that does it, puts it in correctly, which typically means they will purge and fill a few times in a non humid room environment.
For street use.... good ol air
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,401
Likes: 1,141
From: Dyer, IN
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 1
From: Douglasville Ga
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 1
From: Douglasville Ga
I run N2 in my track tires mainly because of the consistency. I know it wont expand to over 36 psi when hot and thats where I NEED to be. there IS a difference on how your car handles at 150mph braking hard and into a corner.
fwiw, if you do run N2 in your tires, make sure the shop that does it, puts it in correctly, which typically means they will purge and fill a few times in a non humid room environment.
For street use.... good ol air
fwiw, if you do run N2 in your tires, make sure the shop that does it, puts it in correctly, which typically means they will purge and fill a few times in a non humid room environment.
For street use.... good ol air
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,187
Likes: 6
From: Oakville Ontario,Canada
I know that I am starting to beat my head against a brick wall, but please explain to me how you KNOW that your tires will not go over 36 PSI and how N2 acts differently the air without water. I am no chemical engineer, but I am pretty sure that PV=ZnRT dipicks (Close enough anyway) how a gas will react to temperature and pressure and volumes etc. And again am pretty sure that N2 and O2 and Xe and Cl2 and all the gases that make up air react the same, or with Minute and undetectable differences to a human riding in a car.
In my street tires (air)...they are 32 cold and get up to 38+ when hot.
Im just telling you what I see not why it does it... I'll leave that to the scientist and engineers on here
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Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 16
From: Howell Michigan
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
Well, maybe while racing your tires are staying cooler because you are going so fast the air on the outside of them causes them to cool off more then while driving on the street!!! I'm thinking of marketing ARGON gas for tires. It's even more stable and cost way more then nitrogen so it has to be better....because eveyone know you get what you pay for!!
Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,453
Likes: 81
From: Fishin' Pole FL
If N molecules are larger than O molecules and therefore don't leak out, wouldn't the O molecules eventually leak out leaving only Nitrogen in your tires anyway. Just fill them up a little bit more and let the Oxygen leak out. NOT.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 1
From: Douglasville Ga
nothing scientific here... I take an air reading in my track tires prior to going out when they are cool/warm... and again when I get back.... 33 when I leave 36 when I'm back.. thats how I KNOW
In my street tires (air)...they are 32 cold and get up to 38+ when hot.
Im just telling you what I see not why it does it... I'll leave that to the scientist and engineers on here
In my street tires (air)...they are 32 cold and get up to 38+ when hot.
Im just telling you what I see not why it does it... I'll leave that to the scientist and engineers on here
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Castle Rock Colorado
If N molecules are larger than O molecules and therefore don't leak out, wouldn't the O molecules eventually leak out leaving only Nitrogen in your tires anyway. Just fill them up a little bit more and let the Oxygen leak out. NOT.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,401
Likes: 1,141
From: Dyer, IN
well the way you stated it earlier made it sound like that no matter what, your tires wil never get above 36psi on the track. I am not doubting what you are seeing, just telling you that N2/O2 mixture react the exact same to stresses on the road as well as heat and pressures changes as pure N2.
