oil leak at front of the engine
01-07-2009, 11:16 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
oil leak at front of the engine
I found an oil leak coming from the front of the engine somewhere. After inspection it appears to be coming from behind the harmonic balancer since I can see it below the pulley but not above.
I haven't checked the bolt yet as I'm just learning that could cause a leak - but if it is a loose bolt do I just tighten it to see if that stops the leak? If so, do I tighten it up from where it is, do I have to remove it and apply lock-tite, or does the balancer itself have to come off?
If I do have to take the balancer off, can that be done in the car just by removing the belt and the bolt, or does the k-member, etc, have to come out to get to it?
Also, I've seen some comments about "pinning" the balancer. What does that mean and what does it do?
And finally, if the harmonic balancer bolt isn't loose, do I have a bigger problem on my hands? What else could it be?
Thanks!
I haven't checked the bolt yet as I'm just learning that could cause a leak - but if it is a loose bolt do I just tighten it to see if that stops the leak? If so, do I tighten it up from where it is, do I have to remove it and apply lock-tite, or does the balancer itself have to come off?
If I do have to take the balancer off, can that be done in the car just by removing the belt and the bolt, or does the k-member, etc, have to come out to get to it?
Also, I've seen some comments about "pinning" the balancer. What does that mean and what does it do?
And finally, if the harmonic balancer bolt isn't loose, do I have a bigger problem on my hands? What else could it be?
Thanks!
01-07-2009, 11:32 AM
#2
Tech Contributor
01-07-2009, 11:43 AM
#3
Team Owner
I found an oil leak coming from the front of the engine somewhere. After inspection it appears to be coming from behind the harmonic balancer since I can see it below the pulley but not above.
I haven't checked the bolt yet as I'm just learning that could cause a leak - but if it is a loose bolt do I just tighten it to see if that stops the leak? If so, do I tighten it up from where it is, do I have to remove it and apply lock-tite, or does the balancer itself have to come off?
Likely not the bolt but the seal assuming there are some miles on the car.
If I do have to take the balancer off, can that be done in the car just by removing the belt and the bolt, or does the k-member, etc, have to come out to get to it?
You have to remove the steering rack. The bolt is a torque to yield. Best to plan on replacing the bolt, the damper and the seal as the seals do wear into the balancer hub over time. LS1howto.com shows what is involved (at the C5 cam swap), however do not follow that procedure. Too many guys have damaged the crankshaft threads using it.
Also, I've seen some comments about "pinning" the balancer. What does that mean and what does it do?
You need to have a damper with a keyway in it to use the ATI kit or use the end on pin kit but basically you are adding a pin to prevent the damper from rotating on the crankshaft.
And finally, if the harmonic balancer bolt isn't loose, do I have a bigger problem on my hands? What else could it be?
More than likely the seal.
Thanks!
I haven't checked the bolt yet as I'm just learning that could cause a leak - but if it is a loose bolt do I just tighten it to see if that stops the leak? If so, do I tighten it up from where it is, do I have to remove it and apply lock-tite, or does the balancer itself have to come off?
Likely not the bolt but the seal assuming there are some miles on the car.
If I do have to take the balancer off, can that be done in the car just by removing the belt and the bolt, or does the k-member, etc, have to come out to get to it?
You have to remove the steering rack. The bolt is a torque to yield. Best to plan on replacing the bolt, the damper and the seal as the seals do wear into the balancer hub over time. LS1howto.com shows what is involved (at the C5 cam swap), however do not follow that procedure. Too many guys have damaged the crankshaft threads using it.
Also, I've seen some comments about "pinning" the balancer. What does that mean and what does it do?
You need to have a damper with a keyway in it to use the ATI kit or use the end on pin kit but basically you are adding a pin to prevent the damper from rotating on the crankshaft.
And finally, if the harmonic balancer bolt isn't loose, do I have a bigger problem on my hands? What else could it be?
More than likely the seal.
Thanks!
01-07-2009, 12:37 PM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for the detailed reply! My follow up comments and questions:
The car has about 58,000 miles on it + 6 HPDE weekends. Is that about right for the crank seal to be going out or the damper bolt to come loose?
I have a GMPP extended warranty that is still good until this August (assuming I didn't void it with my LT headers), so that is a big factor in how I'll handle this. If it is as simple as removing the steering rack, damper, and replacing a seal that's not too tough to get in and out, I may do it myself. But from the LS1howto article, it looks like there's more involved. What about the fans, condenser/radiator, water pump, timing cover, oil pump, timing chain, and God forbid the oil pan?
It sounds like the stock damper doesn't have a keyway to accommodate a pin - does the stock crank have a keyway for one?
I'm not sure what you mean by the seals wearing into the damper hub.. If I get the damper off, how do I determine whether or not it needs to be replaced? If I were to take it to the dealership, is that something they'd check and replace if necessary or just fix the seal and put it back together? I definitely want it done right the first time!
The car has about 58,000 miles on it + 6 HPDE weekends. Is that about right for the crank seal to be going out or the damper bolt to come loose?
I have a GMPP extended warranty that is still good until this August (assuming I didn't void it with my LT headers), so that is a big factor in how I'll handle this. If it is as simple as removing the steering rack, damper, and replacing a seal that's not too tough to get in and out, I may do it myself. But from the LS1howto article, it looks like there's more involved. What about the fans, condenser/radiator, water pump, timing cover, oil pump, timing chain, and God forbid the oil pan?
It sounds like the stock damper doesn't have a keyway to accommodate a pin - does the stock crank have a keyway for one?
I'm not sure what you mean by the seals wearing into the damper hub.. If I get the damper off, how do I determine whether or not it needs to be replaced? If I were to take it to the dealership, is that something they'd check and replace if necessary or just fix the seal and put it back together? I definitely want it done right the first time!
01-07-2009, 05:19 PM
#5
Safety Car
If the balancer bolt comes loose and the balancer works its way forward a little, this will cause an oil leak. Happened on my C5. Necessary to install a new bolt assuming the balancer is not damaged. Mine was.
01-07-2009, 05:56 PM
#6
Drifting
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Stillman Valley Illinois
Posts: 1,757
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12 Posts
Thanks for the detailed reply! My follow up comments and questions:
The car has about 58,000 miles on it + 6 HPDE weekends. Is that about right for the crank seal to be going out or the damper bolt to come loose?
I have a GMPP extended warranty that is still good until this August (assuming I didn't void it with my LT headers), so that is a big factor in how I'll handle this. If it is as simple as removing the steering rack, damper, and replacing a seal that's not too tough to get in and out, I may do it myself. But from the LS1howto article, it looks like there's more involved. What about the fans, condenser/radiator, water pump, timing cover, oil pump, timing chain, and God forbid the oil pan?
It sounds like the stock damper doesn't have a keyway to accommodate a pin - does the stock crank have a keyway for one?
I'm not sure what you mean by the seals wearing into the damper hub.. If I get the damper off, how do I determine whether or not it needs to be replaced? If I were to take it to the dealership, is that something they'd check and replace if necessary or just fix the seal and put it back together? I definitely want it done right the first time!
The car has about 58,000 miles on it + 6 HPDE weekends. Is that about right for the crank seal to be going out or the damper bolt to come loose?
I have a GMPP extended warranty that is still good until this August (assuming I didn't void it with my LT headers), so that is a big factor in how I'll handle this. If it is as simple as removing the steering rack, damper, and replacing a seal that's not too tough to get in and out, I may do it myself. But from the LS1howto article, it looks like there's more involved. What about the fans, condenser/radiator, water pump, timing cover, oil pump, timing chain, and God forbid the oil pan?
It sounds like the stock damper doesn't have a keyway to accommodate a pin - does the stock crank have a keyway for one?
I'm not sure what you mean by the seals wearing into the damper hub.. If I get the damper off, how do I determine whether or not it needs to be replaced? If I were to take it to the dealership, is that something they'd check and replace if necessary or just fix the seal and put it back together? I definitely want it done right the first time!
The instructions you are reffering to are for a cam installation. To replace the front seal; you need to remove the stering rack and balancer. I would consider an underdrive balancer as long as you are doing the work. DO NOT FOLLOW THOSE INSTRUCTIONS FOR REINSTALLATION. I would also suggest an ARP bolt as opposed to the TTY factory bolt. GOod Luck
01-07-2009, 06:44 PM
#7
Racer
Thread Starter
Is this something I'll be able to feel while driving, like excessive engine vibration? Or will it just be a sudden catastrophic failure if I don't catch it in time? Do I have to remove the steering rack to check to see if the bolt is loose? What else would cause a leak there besides the damper bolt coming loose and is there anything else it could be?
I've had the leak for about a week, but took a road trip last weekend before I noticed it so I've probably got 700+ miles on it since it first started. I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary except the leak, and it's very slow - I can't even tell the oil level is going down from the dipstick. This is my only car so I'm starting to get more and more worried about this.
The instructions you are reffering to are for a cam installation. To replace the front seal; you need to remove the stering rack and balancer. I would consider an underdrive balancer as long as you are doing the work. DO NOT FOLLOW THOSE INSTRUCTIONS FOR REINSTALLATION. I would also suggest an ARP bolt as opposed to the TTY factory bolt. GOod Luck.
01-08-2009, 08:37 AM
#8
Tech Contributor
The belt drive pulley, part of the damper, drives the alternator, A/C compressor, and power steering.
LDB C5 is referring an underdrive damper pulley. It's diameter is smaller than stock, and drives the engine accessories at a slower speed.
In my opinion, an underdrive pulley is not needed for a stock street driven car.
Last edited by Quicksilver Vert 01; 01-09-2009 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Made corrections.
01-08-2009, 08:47 AM
#9
Drifting
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Stillman Valley Illinois
Posts: 1,757
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The harmonic damper is bolted directly to the crankshaft, and turns at the exact engine RPM.
The belt drive pulley bolts up to the front of the damper, and drives the alternator, A/C compressor, and power steering.
LDB C5 is referring to an underdrive PULLEY. It's diameter is larger than stock, and drives the engine accessories at a slower speed.
In my opinion, an underdrive pulley is not needed for a stock street driven car.
The belt drive pulley bolts up to the front of the damper, and drives the alternator, A/C compressor, and power steering.
LDB C5 is referring to an underdrive PULLEY. It's diameter is larger than stock, and drives the engine accessories at a slower speed.
In my opinion, an underdrive pulley is not needed for a stock street driven car.
The pulley / harmonic dampener is an assembly. It must be changed as a unit. The pulley portion is pressed on to the OD of the dampener using a rubber bushing, and cannot be replaced seperately. If all you are ever going to do is drive mildly on the street an underdrive in not necessary; but if you are doing all that work anyway, why not take advantage of the opportunity.
01-08-2009, 09:07 AM
#10
Drifting
As I'm reading this, I wonder if it is possible to re-torque a crank bolt (60K miles) To insure it remains tight. Sort of, "ounce of prevention..." 
not to hi-jack...
not to hi-jack...
01-08-2009, 09:08 AM
#11
Tech Contributor
01-08-2009, 09:55 AM
#12
Racer
Thread Starter
Well so far it's still running... I checked the bolt and pulley and they weren't loose enough to wiggle by hand. I also watched the pulley rotation and belt path at idle and everything looked lined up and there was no abnormal wobbling. Still drives smooth as usual and the oil level isn't going down at a rate I can notice on the dipstick. Can the front crank seal start leaking without the bolt being loose?
I'm going to have it checked out tomorrow afternoon at a dealership and hopefully they can figure out what it is. Until then there's not much I can do.
So assuming the car isn't going to fall apart on me and that the dampener assembly is going to have to come off whether it's the crank seal or something else back there - do I have time to order a new assembly and pin kit? Basically I'd have to get by for another week, which I wasn't really worried about until I started doing more research on the leak.
Is this a good one?
http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=1529
I do track the car 6 - 10 times per year and it will be my daily driver for as much as another year (hopefully not that long!), but I've never looked into these so I don't know what's good and what's not.
Thanks!
I'm going to have it checked out tomorrow afternoon at a dealership and hopefully they can figure out what it is. Until then there's not much I can do.
So assuming the car isn't going to fall apart on me and that the dampener assembly is going to have to come off whether it's the crank seal or something else back there - do I have time to order a new assembly and pin kit? Basically I'd have to get by for another week, which I wasn't really worried about until I started doing more research on the leak.
Is this a good one?
http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=1529
I do track the car 6 - 10 times per year and it will be my daily driver for as much as another year (hopefully not that long!), but I've never looked into these so I don't know what's good and what's not.
Thanks!
01-08-2009, 01:13 PM
#13
Team Owner
See below.
Well so far it's still running... I checked the bolt and pulley and they weren't loose enough to wiggle by hand. I also watched the pulley rotation and belt path at idle and everything looked lined up and there was no abnormal wobbling. Still drives smooth as usual and the oil level isn't going down at a rate I can notice on the dipstick. Can the front crank seal start leaking without the bolt being loose?
Definitely, it wears a groove in the hub.
I'm going to have it checked out tomorrow afternoon at a dealership and hopefully they can figure out what it is. Until then there's not much I can do.
So assuming the car isn't going to fall apart on me and that the dampener assembly is going to have to come off whether it's the crank seal or something else back there - do I have time to order a new assembly and pin kit? Basically I'd have to get by for another week, which I wasn't really worried about until I started doing more research on the leak.
Is this a good one?
I would persoanlly steer clear of ASP. I question how well it damps as there have been some issues with timing chains (another forum) and the common thread seems to be they were all running ASP dampers.
Get a Powerbond from New Era Performance or the best one out there is the ATI.
http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=1529
I do track the car 6 - 10 times per year and it will be my daily driver for as much as another year (hopefully not that long!), but I've never looked into these so I don't know what's good and what's not.
Thanks!
Definitely, it wears a groove in the hub.
I'm going to have it checked out tomorrow afternoon at a dealership and hopefully they can figure out what it is. Until then there's not much I can do.
So assuming the car isn't going to fall apart on me and that the dampener assembly is going to have to come off whether it's the crank seal or something else back there - do I have time to order a new assembly and pin kit? Basically I'd have to get by for another week, which I wasn't really worried about until I started doing more research on the leak.
Is this a good one?
I would persoanlly steer clear of ASP. I question how well it damps as there have been some issues with timing chains (another forum) and the common thread seems to be they were all running ASP dampers.
Get a Powerbond from New Era Performance or the best one out there is the ATI.
http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=1529
I do track the car 6 - 10 times per year and it will be my daily driver for as much as another year (hopefully not that long!), but I've never looked into these so I don't know what's good and what's not.
Thanks!
01-08-2009, 05:01 PM
#14
Safety Car
I wouldn't bother. These bolts are torque to yield and if installed correctly should never need re-tightening.
06-12-2014, 02:59 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
wow thanks buddy I just read this entire thread only to find out its 3 years old!!
The only places to leak oil from in that area is the timing cover gasket, oil pan, & timing cover/balancer seal. Likely the seal behind the balancer was the problem.
I just had an issue with my balancer wobbling off the crank, it is very common. Pull the rack, pull the balancer, put new seal in timing cover, install powerbond balancer, use front pin kit to pin balancer to crank, re-install. That is the fix.
The only places to leak oil from in that area is the timing cover gasket, oil pan, & timing cover/balancer seal. Likely the seal behind the balancer was the problem.
I just had an issue with my balancer wobbling off the crank, it is very common. Pull the rack, pull the balancer, put new seal in timing cover, install powerbond balancer, use front pin kit to pin balancer to crank, re-install. That is the fix.
