NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)...
02-14-2002, 02:17 AM
#1
Running Guns & Moonshine
Thread Starter
NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)...
Hey guys, I don't usually post over here but I'm an avid reader. I generally hang out at Camaroz28.com under the alias of Brett 91 RS LT1, my other toy :chevy .
But I've got problems! On March 21st of 2000 I took delivery of my coupe. :flag Its a black on black 6-speed with the polished rims and every option except museum delivery and head up display. Since the day I bought it, it seems I've had nothing but trouble. I tallied the paperwork a week ago and discovered that in the two years I have owned the car it has spent over 60 days in the shop for repairs, most of that time being in the last year.
Now I had a few disturbing problems but some were taken care of and I didn't think twice about them. But as time has gone on there have only been more problems and they've gotten more severe in nature. A lot of the problems I consider "small" and in and of themselves never bothered me, but now when I put it all together I can't say that I have much faith in my car.
Here's the short list...
Driver front suspension came apart after 1st 3,000 miles and the lower a-arm and knuckle as well as a shock had to be replaced. Thankfully it didn't happen on the highway.
The rear end has leaked sicne day one and been in to be fixed 5 times now with no effect. At first it wasn't a big problem, but I have had to top off the gear fluid twice now.
T-top leaks despite the dealer and my attempts to fix it
Trunk leaks
Many interior parts like t-top mounts, heat vents, and parts of the dash have broken or come apart.
Fuel gauge intermittently does not function at all.
Driver front tire pressure monitor system doesn't work.
Clutch went at 22k, not from wear (had roughly 70% wear left to the disc and plate) but from the ring around the spring pack letting go.
Engine has stumbled/stalled for 3 months and multiple visits before it was determined that the MAF was faulty.
Engine ATE an ENTIRE pan of oil within 500 miles of an oil change. This one has my attention since they have no oil change on record at the dealership and though I can't prove it, I think they never refilled the pan - this perhaps lead to the clutch letting go as well as more severe engine troubles not caused by the MAF such as stalling out while running - and this was after the clutch was replaced and I discovered the no oil problem and topped her off again.
And now, even with the new MAF greatly improving the way the car idles and responds, the car still feels down on power over ~4000 rpm.
There are various other small things too, these are just the more significant things.
Now, according to Connecticut state law I qualify for the Lemon Law based on the total # of days the car has been out of service, total # of problems, the 5 time repair of the rear end with no effect, and the failure of the suspension after the first 3000 miles.
Last week I contacted GM and began the Gm Buy Back process. I will hear back from them late this week. I have about 7,000 miles before the end of my warranty, but I don't trust the car anymore. I look at the car and as much as I love it all I can see is me two or three years from now with a car that is falling apart and being left holding the bag for numerous repairs and expensive parts like a new engine and rear end. I bought the car to be a fun, reliable daily driver. And it has yet to live up to the reliable part.
I've actually gone back and forth for about 2 months debating whether or not to go for the Buy Back or the Lemon Law. I paid for the car outright, my first new car ever. It has been my dream car and I feel a certain attachment to it. So this isn't something I am doing lightly by any means. I've asked fellow members of the Connecticut Corvette Club, talked with GM dealers and sales managers, Ray Zisa of the Corvette Center, and numerous other C5 owners. Not one of them have experienced or even heard of another C5 with the problems I have experienced. :confused:
So here I go. You know, this must be what it was like when the old cavalry soldiers had to shoot their horses when they were wounded.
But I've got to ask - have any of you come across such a string of problems in a C5? And have any of you ever dealt with GM in terms of the Buy Back service before? I'm still trying to better understand my position and what would make things easier in dealing with GM.
BTW - When I called GM last week and initiated all of this they said that by their records they saw no justification for the Buy Back service. :boxing I would think that a car with as many service problems and potentially fatal issues with the drivetrain and otherwise (especially since it is the flagship of the GM fleet) that they would come to terms - despite the fact that GM is such a big corporation. I also thought this was interesting because after questioning several different people at the state lemon law office the unanimous belief was that not only did I have solid grounds for the Lemon Law but also a high propensity to win a settlement if I went for it. They even feel that given the circumstances I can press for GM to reimburse me for what I spent to replace the clutch - though I don't know about that since it IS a wearable part.
I appreciate any advice or input on what's going on with my car and the buy back plan. Thanks guys!
But I've got problems! On March 21st of 2000 I took delivery of my coupe. :flag Its a black on black 6-speed with the polished rims and every option except museum delivery and head up display. Since the day I bought it, it seems I've had nothing but trouble. I tallied the paperwork a week ago and discovered that in the two years I have owned the car it has spent over 60 days in the shop for repairs, most of that time being in the last year.
Now I had a few disturbing problems but some were taken care of and I didn't think twice about them. But as time has gone on there have only been more problems and they've gotten more severe in nature. A lot of the problems I consider "small" and in and of themselves never bothered me, but now when I put it all together I can't say that I have much faith in my car.
Here's the short list...
Driver front suspension came apart after 1st 3,000 miles and the lower a-arm and knuckle as well as a shock had to be replaced. Thankfully it didn't happen on the highway.
The rear end has leaked sicne day one and been in to be fixed 5 times now with no effect. At first it wasn't a big problem, but I have had to top off the gear fluid twice now.
T-top leaks despite the dealer and my attempts to fix it
Trunk leaks
Many interior parts like t-top mounts, heat vents, and parts of the dash have broken or come apart.
Fuel gauge intermittently does not function at all.
Driver front tire pressure monitor system doesn't work.
Clutch went at 22k, not from wear (had roughly 70% wear left to the disc and plate) but from the ring around the spring pack letting go.
Engine has stumbled/stalled for 3 months and multiple visits before it was determined that the MAF was faulty.
Engine ATE an ENTIRE pan of oil within 500 miles of an oil change. This one has my attention since they have no oil change on record at the dealership and though I can't prove it, I think they never refilled the pan - this perhaps lead to the clutch letting go as well as more severe engine troubles not caused by the MAF such as stalling out while running - and this was after the clutch was replaced and I discovered the no oil problem and topped her off again.
And now, even with the new MAF greatly improving the way the car idles and responds, the car still feels down on power over ~4000 rpm.
There are various other small things too, these are just the more significant things.
Now, according to Connecticut state law I qualify for the Lemon Law based on the total # of days the car has been out of service, total # of problems, the 5 time repair of the rear end with no effect, and the failure of the suspension after the first 3000 miles.
Last week I contacted GM and began the Gm Buy Back process. I will hear back from them late this week. I have about 7,000 miles before the end of my warranty, but I don't trust the car anymore. I look at the car and as much as I love it all I can see is me two or three years from now with a car that is falling apart and being left holding the bag for numerous repairs and expensive parts like a new engine and rear end. I bought the car to be a fun, reliable daily driver. And it has yet to live up to the reliable part.
I've actually gone back and forth for about 2 months debating whether or not to go for the Buy Back or the Lemon Law. I paid for the car outright, my first new car ever. It has been my dream car and I feel a certain attachment to it. So this isn't something I am doing lightly by any means. I've asked fellow members of the Connecticut Corvette Club, talked with GM dealers and sales managers, Ray Zisa of the Corvette Center, and numerous other C5 owners. Not one of them have experienced or even heard of another C5 with the problems I have experienced. :confused:
So here I go. You know, this must be what it was like when the old cavalry soldiers had to shoot their horses when they were wounded.
But I've got to ask - have any of you come across such a string of problems in a C5? And have any of you ever dealt with GM in terms of the Buy Back service before? I'm still trying to better understand my position and what would make things easier in dealing with GM.
BTW - When I called GM last week and initiated all of this they said that by their records they saw no justification for the Buy Back service. :boxing I would think that a car with as many service problems and potentially fatal issues with the drivetrain and otherwise (especially since it is the flagship of the GM fleet) that they would come to terms - despite the fact that GM is such a big corporation. I also thought this was interesting because after questioning several different people at the state lemon law office the unanimous belief was that not only did I have solid grounds for the Lemon Law but also a high propensity to win a settlement if I went for it. They even feel that given the circumstances I can press for GM to reimburse me for what I spent to replace the clutch - though I don't know about that since it IS a wearable part.
I appreciate any advice or input on what's going on with my car and the buy back plan. Thanks guys!
02-14-2002, 02:32 AM
#2
Running Guns & Moonshine
Thread Starter
Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
Also - I did some number crunching on the chevy web site. If they replace my car optioned as it is out of their pocket with a new 2002 it would cost $50,155 msrp and a new 2002 ZO6 optioned out as $50,825.
Now, I partly feel like I'd be pushing them if I said I wanted a ZO6. But I can also honestly say that if it were available when I ordered my car I would have bought one. And I also would feel more justified in pushing for it since I have spent over $6500 in modifications to the car (security system, cell, nav system, !cags, and Borla).
Don't get me wrong, I would be more than pleased to get a duplicate of what I have and keep on tooling down the road. But the costs being similar as they are, my interest being there, and the money I would still lose (not to mention all of the lost time and frustration) on the 2000 if the Buy Back or Lemon Law decision goes through evens it out.
Am I WAY off base here?
Now, I partly feel like I'd be pushing them if I said I wanted a ZO6. But I can also honestly say that if it were available when I ordered my car I would have bought one. And I also would feel more justified in pushing for it since I have spent over $6500 in modifications to the car (security system, cell, nav system, !cags, and Borla).
Don't get me wrong, I would be more than pleased to get a duplicate of what I have and keep on tooling down the road. But the costs being similar as they are, my interest being there, and the money I would still lose (not to mention all of the lost time and frustration) on the 2000 if the Buy Back or Lemon Law decision goes through evens it out.
Am I WAY off base here?
02-14-2002, 10:02 AM
#5
Drifting
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Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
To make your claim stronger, I would suggest you file a claim through the BBB. The procedure is in the back of the owners manual. Include a copy of all your paper work on the car and a written history of the faults. This gets your claim into the system that GM pays attention to. This procedure forces GM to listen to you. Ortherwise you are just dealing with the GM customer center! Your state laws will govern the settlement I would think; buyback or new car. I would think you might be better off just letting GM have the car back and get your money. MHO
02-14-2002, 11:24 AM
#6
Running Guns & Moonshine
Thread Starter
Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
Well, that's just it. I recognize that my car (as far as I know) seems to be fairly unique with most of its faults. I love the C5s and would want to get into another one. Another way to look at it is that I didn't pay $50,000 up front to drive one around for 2 years and then get rid of the car.
But on the flip side of that, if they reimburse me the full amount I would probably buy a nice used one put the rest into finishing the weekend ride.
(edit) BBB - interesting idea, that probably WOULD get their attention.
[Modified by Brett C5 SCCA, 5:50 PM 2/26/2002]
But on the flip side of that, if they reimburse me the full amount I would probably buy a nice used one put the rest into finishing the weekend ride.
(edit) BBB - interesting idea, that probably WOULD get their attention.
[Modified by Brett C5 SCCA, 5:50 PM 2/26/2002]
02-15-2002, 10:13 AM
#7
Running Guns & Moonshine
Thread Starter
Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
any other ideas or suggestions?
:seeya
:seeya
02-15-2002, 10:30 AM
#8
Safety Car
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Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
Although this is for TX, it's still basically what most states use as a basis for the Lemon Law, I think.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=236179
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=236179
02-15-2002, 11:36 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
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Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
Well personally I have not had the experience of doing a lemon law or buyback
but a friend of mine did with his 2000 z28 and they bought it back... and he had less problems then you.....
My first suggestion would be to call 1-800-MY-LEMON, I dont know if they do every state or just the midwest area, but give them a call and see, I'm sure they can point you in the right direction. If they do every state, they are very good they will take your claim only if they know that you have good cause and they will charge you nothing, there money will be from GM, most of the time GM doesnt want the publicity of a buy-back/lemon Law and will settle pretty Quick without going to court... Now the law varies from state to state you will not qualify for a lemon law if the years or miles are longer than stated from purchase date.... So they might have to go through a buy-Back program or even a compensation of money back to you if they fix your car 100% or even let you trade it in giving you money to increase the price of your car trade in value and/or decrease the cost on the new car your buying....
The terms used in fighting GM for a lemon/buy-back program was "Shakin Faith" meaning you bought the car with the intention of having a "NEW" dependable ride and it has been in the D^%& shop more than you could drive it!! When you call them make sure you have all your receipts for service and your story straight about your car, they are very good, and fairly quick to resolve any issue's you may have with your car.
I hope this helps and this is the best understanding I got out of it watching and learning from my buddy doing it...
Mike
but a friend of mine did with his 2000 z28 and they bought it back... and he had less problems then you.....
My first suggestion would be to call 1-800-MY-LEMON, I dont know if they do every state or just the midwest area, but give them a call and see, I'm sure they can point you in the right direction. If they do every state, they are very good they will take your claim only if they know that you have good cause and they will charge you nothing, there money will be from GM, most of the time GM doesnt want the publicity of a buy-back/lemon Law and will settle pretty Quick without going to court... Now the law varies from state to state you will not qualify for a lemon law if the years or miles are longer than stated from purchase date.... So they might have to go through a buy-Back program or even a compensation of money back to you if they fix your car 100% or even let you trade it in giving you money to increase the price of your car trade in value and/or decrease the cost on the new car your buying....
The terms used in fighting GM for a lemon/buy-back program was "Shakin Faith" meaning you bought the car with the intention of having a "NEW" dependable ride and it has been in the D^%& shop more than you could drive it!! When you call them make sure you have all your receipts for service and your story straight about your car, they are very good, and fairly quick to resolve any issue's you may have with your car.
I hope this helps and this is the best understanding I got out of it watching and learning from my buddy doing it...
Mike
02-15-2002, 11:42 AM
#10
Running Guns & Moonshine
Thread Starter
Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
Ah, very good. Yes, it's the same here in Ct. I qualify for the ~60 days of being in the shop, 5x repair of rear end, and safety because of the suspension (even though it was fixed).
It's good to hear confirmation of what I've been told. This afternoon I am expecting GM to be calling me back. I'll be sure to post any updates. :yesnod:
It's good to hear confirmation of what I've been told. This afternoon I am expecting GM to be calling me back. I'll be sure to post any updates. :yesnod:
02-15-2002, 12:39 PM
#11
Drifting
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Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (Brett C5 SCCA)
brett, go to
http://www.lemonlawamerica.com
The BBB,is NOT usually given to rule in favor of the plaintiff........be prepared to pay for the mileage you ran up, say, if you have 25,000 miles on it, then you will get only a 75% return of you're funds...........
I would get a lawyer........don't mess with the BBB, GM understands lawsuits......and they will respond MUCH quicker to a suit.......
Just from the response you heard when you called GM, you should HAVE the picture......they have these deals scripted like a movie.......do NOT play their game.
5x's qualifies for replacement in ANY state................iiiin the period/s you alluded to.
Good luck, be a pit bull, and take no prisoners!!!!!!!!! :boxing :boxing :mad
http://www.lemonlawamerica.com
The BBB,is NOT usually given to rule in favor of the plaintiff........be prepared to pay for the mileage you ran up, say, if you have 25,000 miles on it, then you will get only a 75% return of you're funds...........
I would get a lawyer........don't mess with the BBB, GM understands lawsuits......and they will respond MUCH quicker to a suit.......
Just from the response you heard when you called GM, you should HAVE the picture......they have these deals scripted like a movie.......do NOT play their game.
5x's qualifies for replacement in ANY state................iiiin the period/s you alluded to.
Good luck, be a pit bull, and take no prisoners!!!!!!!!! :boxing :boxing :mad
02-15-2002, 04:48 PM
#12
Running Guns & Moonshine
Thread Starter
Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
Yup, they just called. Not a very productive conversation, but here's the synposis.
They want the car to go in next week for the dealer's guys to "assess" my problems. What are they going to assess that they couldn't or didn't assess last week when it was in for all of these problems?
On the plus side I mentioned the clutch issue and how I shelled out for it and the guy I said claims that given my explanation that the plate and disc were roughly 30% worn and that the collar around the spring pack let go - he says I probably will have a nice fat check coming my way for roughly 1400 but we'll have to pursue that further.
So I think they're more trying to load facts for their side with this whole "bring it in and have our techs assess it" business since its been in regularly for these problems over the last 3 months and even just last wednesday when I started the whole Buy Back business.
And one of the guys did mention or at least allude to the point that with Buy Back I would be liable for milage on the car. If that is the way they want to work it in the end then I will simply take the next step with the lemon law and go for full refund/replacement plus reimbursement for over 60 days with the car in the shop. I'd say those two expenses should just about even each other out :D
So we'll see where this leads to. I still "trust" GM and have always been loyal (until Acura came out with the new TL Type-S cars :lol: ) and I'll see this through with them first and see what they are prepared to offer. If it is not satisfactory then I'll just take the next option.
So this weekend I'm spooling up the paperwork for BBB and LL. :blueangel:
They want the car to go in next week for the dealer's guys to "assess" my problems. What are they going to assess that they couldn't or didn't assess last week when it was in for all of these problems?
On the plus side I mentioned the clutch issue and how I shelled out for it and the guy I said claims that given my explanation that the plate and disc were roughly 30% worn and that the collar around the spring pack let go - he says I probably will have a nice fat check coming my way for roughly 1400 but we'll have to pursue that further.
So I think they're more trying to load facts for their side with this whole "bring it in and have our techs assess it" business since its been in regularly for these problems over the last 3 months and even just last wednesday when I started the whole Buy Back business.
And one of the guys did mention or at least allude to the point that with Buy Back I would be liable for milage on the car. If that is the way they want to work it in the end then I will simply take the next step with the lemon law and go for full refund/replacement plus reimbursement for over 60 days with the car in the shop. I'd say those two expenses should just about even each other out :D
So we'll see where this leads to. I still "trust" GM and have always been loyal (until Acura came out with the new TL Type-S cars :lol: ) and I'll see this through with them first and see what they are prepared to offer. If it is not satisfactory then I'll just take the next option.
So this weekend I'm spooling up the paperwork for BBB and LL. :blueangel:
02-15-2002, 04:54 PM
#13
Drifting
You are wasting your time with GM
I can give you my details of making them buy back my 99 coupe. Email me at rfgoss1@yahoo.com and I will give you my phone number. You are going to get screwed by GM on the buyback. You are much better off with the Lemon Law angle. IMHO.
Randy Goss
:cheers:
Randy Goss
:cheers:
02-15-2002, 07:41 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
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Re: You are wasting your time with GM (rfgoss1)
You 'trust' GM? You are off to a bad start. I wouldn't even talk to them directly any longer. Arbitration, BBB, Lawyer.
They know how to play this game to minimize $ loss.
They don't care about you.
The good news, if you play the game right you will get what you want and should have no problem. But don't trust them. Their best interests are at heart, not yours.
They know how to play this game to minimize $ loss.
They don't care about you.
The good news, if you play the game right you will get what you want and should have no problem. But don't trust them. Their best interests are at heart, not yours.
02-25-2002, 12:57 PM
#15
Running Guns & Moonshine
Thread Starter
Re: You are wasting your time with GM (MelloYellow)
Trust is relative. But hopefully I can make some headway with GM or at least with the dealer now that I have filled out my Lemon Law and BBB papers. Again, I would prefer to keep it on a friendlier level but all I keep hearing is "let us take a look at it and see what needs to be fixed." They don't get it, they had their chance. And besides that, MORE things keep coming up with the car. And these new things seem to be popping up with much greater frequency. Especially since I'm HARDLY driving the car this time of year!
So I have tomorrow off and so does one of my ASE friends and we're going down and camping out while the local guys check the car out. We're both on top of the game, but since he's registered I have an excellent witness to call upon should anything be sketchy. And honestly, I don't think the local guys are bad guys at all. I just think I got stuck with a POS. Their guys can only do so much.
And even if GM DID offer to repair everything under the sun on the car, am I supposed to trust the work of the local shop guys? They haven't been able to help me so far....
So I've got a few days off coming to me and I may end up using them this week. I'll try the friendly route one more time and even make a very sound business proposal that in my estimation works out to be the best scenario for everyone involved (mostly me, of course, since I'm starting at a disadvantage).
So wish me luck guys!
:U :chevy
So I have tomorrow off and so does one of my ASE friends and we're going down and camping out while the local guys check the car out. We're both on top of the game, but since he's registered I have an excellent witness to call upon should anything be sketchy. And honestly, I don't think the local guys are bad guys at all. I just think I got stuck with a POS. Their guys can only do so much.
And even if GM DID offer to repair everything under the sun on the car, am I supposed to trust the work of the local shop guys? They haven't been able to help me so far....
So I've got a few days off coming to me and I may end up using them this week. I'll try the friendly route one more time and even make a very sound business proposal that in my estimation works out to be the best scenario for everyone involved (mostly me, of course, since I'm starting at a disadvantage).
So wish me luck guys!
:U :chevy
02-25-2002, 02:35 PM
#16
Safety Car
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Re: You are wasting your time with GM (Brett C5 SCCA)
Why not make a deal w/ them. They give you a GMPP 6yr/100K w/ no ded. at no charge w/ the agreement if your probs can't be fixed in a timely manner they take the car back on your terms.
02-25-2002, 03:08 PM
#17
Running Guns & Moonshine
Thread Starter
Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
Part of the problem is that I HAVE had them try to fix/replace what's wrong. Repeatedly. And I have done so and been very calm and quiet about it until now. Suddenly every time I drive it, and I mean this literally in the last few weeks, it has thrown a new code or shown up a new problem. I took it out yesterday for a few hours and maybe 50 miles and I got two different warnings in the DIC, an engine code, driving problems (though possibly the AH/TC because it wasn't warmed up yet....after 45 minutes), and a definite though faint (at road speeds) grinding noise. Its not the injectors, not any regular noise on the car, not the clutch (noisy).
Granted, at this point I am probably over-paranoid at every little thing on the car. But I've gone through two years of this now with the car being in the shop for one week out of every 5 that I have had it. (edit - of every 5 I have had it on the road)
And yes, the 100k warranty could be appealing. But that doesn't solve my problems. What is the use of having a 100k warranty on a car that will and has spent great amounts of time in the shop? It'd be great if the car ran well, but its not. And as far as uncle GM is concerned (at least in my case) it would be a lot more cost-effective to turn me around in another car and fix the immediate issues with the 2000 and trade it off than it would be for me to be 200% paranoid of everything on my car for the next 71,000 miles and have GM paying the local dealer for parts and labor on warranty fixes. Not to mention to avoid documentation of a Lemon Law suit and BBB. When I win, if I do the Lemon Law they will crush the 2000 and GM would be required to replace it out-of-pocket. So in those terms the company would be out $50k. I'm not out for blood (yet), but I have a rock-solid case and I honestly have no faith in my car. I haven't checked the build #, but it is as though it was built on a friday. I can see one, two, maybe even a few of the small things that I haven't even bothered listing here as popping up. And the fuel problem is apparently a common thing. But for the rest of it, in the sequence it has taken over time and given the now relative frequency of problems.....? I have ZERO faith in the car. After yesterday I don't intend to drive it again until I bring it to the dealer and back. And that is saying something since my other winter ride is a 94 Ram that's barely running with 137k. But at least it is reliable. And when you fix it, that problem is solved. :rolleyes:
edit - yeah, I picked up the Ram as a roll-over that had been repaired. I practically STOLE it and now its got almost 140k and the only thing I have had to replace was the water pump and a set of tires.
[Modified by Brett C5 SCCA, 5:57 PM 2/26/2002]
Granted, at this point I am probably over-paranoid at every little thing on the car. But I've gone through two years of this now with the car being in the shop for one week out of every 5 that I have had it. (edit - of every 5 I have had it on the road)
And yes, the 100k warranty could be appealing. But that doesn't solve my problems. What is the use of having a 100k warranty on a car that will and has spent great amounts of time in the shop? It'd be great if the car ran well, but its not. And as far as uncle GM is concerned (at least in my case) it would be a lot more cost-effective to turn me around in another car and fix the immediate issues with the 2000 and trade it off than it would be for me to be 200% paranoid of everything on my car for the next 71,000 miles and have GM paying the local dealer for parts and labor on warranty fixes. Not to mention to avoid documentation of a Lemon Law suit and BBB. When I win, if I do the Lemon Law they will crush the 2000 and GM would be required to replace it out-of-pocket. So in those terms the company would be out $50k. I'm not out for blood (yet), but I have a rock-solid case and I honestly have no faith in my car. I haven't checked the build #, but it is as though it was built on a friday. I can see one, two, maybe even a few of the small things that I haven't even bothered listing here as popping up. And the fuel problem is apparently a common thing. But for the rest of it, in the sequence it has taken over time and given the now relative frequency of problems.....? I have ZERO faith in the car. After yesterday I don't intend to drive it again until I bring it to the dealer and back. And that is saying something since my other winter ride is a 94 Ram that's barely running with 137k. But at least it is reliable. And when you fix it, that problem is solved. :rolleyes:
edit - yeah, I picked up the Ram as a roll-over that had been repaired. I practically STOLE it and now its got almost 140k and the only thing I have had to replace was the water pump and a set of tires.
[Modified by Brett C5 SCCA, 5:57 PM 2/26/2002]
02-25-2002, 03:31 PM
#18
Running Guns & Moonshine
Thread Starter
Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
And for reference, despite my screen name being SCCA I have never raced the C5 - either Lime Rock OR drag strip. Most I've done to abuse it is take it has been a few late-night romps and this one time I had to get to Boston for a 7:30 seminar... yeah, cleared the state line in 20 minutes. :smash:
But other than that, it has been 29,000 miles of highway and 5th or 6th gear cruising. For my old job I was traveling a lot. New York, D.C., King of Prussia, Philadelphia, few places on Long Island, Boston, and once to Raleigh, N.C. Recently it has been doing the back and forth on the interstate for about 30 minutes each way to work and an additional 45 and 30 back and forth to night classes. Interstate highways the whole way. How abusive can that be? I even shift 1, 3, 5 a lot. So to look at the troubles I've got and the driving I do versus some people running juice, lots of boost, and in general putting a lot more hurt on the car - and aside from a few fatal pistons, none of them have or have had any of what I'm going through.
I hope I'm not coming off as a :nopity world's smallest fiddle or a :sleep: about all of this but I intended to keep the car for life. My sweet cruiser. I've got a fast car for toying with on the weekend. I've never thought of doing anything to the C5 other than what's been done already - just planned to keep it semi-stock and enjoy it for what it was. Now its just coming apart around my ears and I've got to do something about it.
At least, since I've asked SO many other owners about my problems I know that I seem to be bearing the brunt of the bad luck. So I think I would be ok getting into another C5. Or if not, I can always opt for the refund instead of the replacement and dump the money into a used one and the rest into finishing my RS. :D
But other than that, it has been 29,000 miles of highway and 5th or 6th gear cruising. For my old job I was traveling a lot. New York, D.C., King of Prussia, Philadelphia, few places on Long Island, Boston, and once to Raleigh, N.C. Recently it has been doing the back and forth on the interstate for about 30 minutes each way to work and an additional 45 and 30 back and forth to night classes. Interstate highways the whole way. How abusive can that be? I even shift 1, 3, 5 a lot. So to look at the troubles I've got and the driving I do versus some people running juice, lots of boost, and in general putting a lot more hurt on the car - and aside from a few fatal pistons, none of them have or have had any of what I'm going through.
I hope I'm not coming off as a :nopity world's smallest fiddle or a :sleep: about all of this but I intended to keep the car for life. My sweet cruiser. I've got a fast car for toying with on the weekend. I've never thought of doing anything to the C5 other than what's been done already - just planned to keep it semi-stock and enjoy it for what it was. Now its just coming apart around my ears and I've got to do something about it.
At least, since I've asked SO many other owners about my problems I know that I seem to be bearing the brunt of the bad luck. So I think I would be ok getting into another C5. Or if not, I can always opt for the refund instead of the replacement and dump the money into a used one and the rest into finishing my RS. :D
02-25-2002, 08:31 PM
#19
Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (Steve02C5)
Although this is for TX, it's still basically what most states use as a basis for the Lemon Law, I think.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=236179
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=236179
when he talks about a rental he says any this was from the texas lemon law consumer guideline:
[*If a comparable loaner vehicle was provided while the vehicle was being repaired, that time does not count toward the 30 days.]
the loaner must be comparable.
02-26-2002, 01:23 AM
#20
Running Guns & Moonshine
Thread Starter
Re: NEED HELP - Lemon Vette and GM Buy Back (long)... (Brett C5 SCCA)
No, I never got a loaner. Of course I never needed one except for one time and I was able to borrow another car to get a ride to/from work with a friend.