Opinions on Propshaft “Rubber” Couplings!
12-21-2009, 08:10 AM
#21
jobberone
This is not just a case of couplers with larger bolt holes, i.e. 10mm vs 12mm. There are two, completely different, torque tube/driveshaft setups and judging by your year model, you have the earlier version, i.e. what is commonly called the "10mm" version vs. the "12mm" version. The "10" and the "12" numbers are basically just a shorthand used when discussing the two different torque tube/driveshaft assemblies and refer to the two different sized bolts used to mount the rubber couplers inside.
The earlier version torque tube assembly (the so-called "10mm" version) has a physically smaller driveshaft inside, 58mm in diameter IIRC. The later version, using larger couplers with 12mm bolt holes (beginning in '01) has a 63mm (IIRC) diameter driveshaft.
The good news is, if you are building a setup with high horsepower, you will want to get a later version torque tube assembly as it bolts right up in place of the older, earlier version with no mods, cutting, or drama. The "innards" will not interchange, so you need to replace the whole assembly. Locate a good 2002 - 2004 6 speed torque tube (for 6 speed cars) and check/replace the couplers, or bearings inside, as needed. If you don't have, or can't locate a part number, the easy visual way to tell them apart is that the rear bell-housings on the later versions are welded to the torque tube as opposed to the earlier versions which are bolted on.
The earlier version torque tube assembly (the so-called "10mm" version) has a physically smaller driveshaft inside, 58mm in diameter IIRC. The later version, using larger couplers with 12mm bolt holes (beginning in '01) has a 63mm (IIRC) diameter driveshaft.
The good news is, if you are building a setup with high horsepower, you will want to get a later version torque tube assembly as it bolts right up in place of the older, earlier version with no mods, cutting, or drama. The "innards" will not interchange, so you need to replace the whole assembly. Locate a good 2002 - 2004 6 speed torque tube (for 6 speed cars) and check/replace the couplers, or bearings inside, as needed. If you don't have, or can't locate a part number, the easy visual way to tell them apart is that the rear bell-housings on the later versions are welded to the torque tube as opposed to the earlier versions which are bolted on.
12-21-2009, 08:21 AM
#22
Team Owner
To the best of my knowledge there has not yet been anyone that has tested both factory set-ups to destruction to determine this. I think it goes without saying though that for those that can get a later version with the larger driveshaft inside, it will be inherently stronger and will give them more "cushion" or "insurance" against failure.
Btw, the later version torque tube assemblies can generally be had for around the $500 - $700 range
12-21-2009, 09:32 AM
#23
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
I had my torque tube rebuilt last year. I have a 99 with an A4; so I had the 10MM shaft. I started off having a new propeller shaft made by the Driveshaft shop, and had it made with 12MM bolts in the ends:
I then had my end pieces drilled out to handle the 12MM bolts:
I then had a rubber coupling installed in the front:
... and asolid coupler in the rear:
I did all this to support higher horsepower. I am currently at 505 RWHP, but plan on building a 900+ RWHP engine soon. I wanted a drive train that will support all I throw at it.
I then had my end pieces drilled out to handle the 12MM bolts:
I then had a rubber coupling installed in the front:
... and asolid coupler in the rear:
I did all this to support higher horsepower. I am currently at 505 RWHP, but plan on building a 900+ RWHP engine soon. I wanted a drive train that will support all I throw at it.
12-21-2009, 09:48 AM
#24
Team Owner
I had my torque tube rebuilt last year. I have a 99 with an A4; so I had the 10MM shaft. I started off having a new propeller shaft made by the Driveshaft shop, and had it made with 12MM bolts in the ends:
I did all this to support higher horsepower. I am currently at 505 RWHP, but plan on building a 900+ RWHP engine soon. I wanted a drive train that will support all I throw at it.
I did all this to support higher horsepower. I am currently at 505 RWHP, but plan on building a 900+ RWHP engine soon. I wanted a drive train that will support all I throw at it.
I think though that in your case, an A4 doesn't transmit the intense shock loads to the drive train that the MM6 cars do. I too had Joey install a solid coupler in the rear when I was there recently and I'm having some vibration I didn't have before. I'm considering taking it out and going back with rubber front and rear. Not sure yet though.
How's that bad boy running btw? Still strong I hope.
12-21-2009, 09:56 AM
#25
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
I remember seeing all the work that DSS and Joey did for you Clif. Looks like quality workmanship.
I think though that in your case, an A4 doesn't transmit the intense shock loads to the drive train that the MM6 cars do. I too had Joey install a solid coupler in the rear when I was there recently and I'm having some vibration I didn't have before. I'm considering taking it out and going back with rubber front and rear. Not sure yet though.
How's that bad boy running btw? Still strong I hope.
I think though that in your case, an A4 doesn't transmit the intense shock loads to the drive train that the MM6 cars do. I too had Joey install a solid coupler in the rear when I was there recently and I'm having some vibration I didn't have before. I'm considering taking it out and going back with rubber front and rear. Not sure yet though.
How's that bad boy running btw? Still strong I hope.
Howdy there! Good to hear from you! My car is temporarily up on jack stands. I messed up two rims by scrubbing a curb recently, so the dealer I got them from offered to replace the out ring of each rim for a nominal fee. My wheels are in shipping back to him to get repaired.
As for vibration, I do have a little, but I attribute that to the Pfadt Solid Motor mounts I had installed when I was getting all the other work done by Joey. I don't mind it at all, though. By the way, those are Joey's hands working on it!
05-12-2012, 04:12 PM
#26
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This is not just a case of couplers with larger bolt holes, i.e. 10mm vs 12mm. There are two, completely different, torque tube/driveshaft setups and judging by your year model, you have the earlier version, i.e. what is commonly called the "10mm" version vs. the "12mm" version. The "10" and the "12" numbers are basically just a shorthand used when discussing the two different torque tube/driveshaft assemblies and refer to the two different sized bolts used to mount the rubber couplers inside.
The earlier version torque tube assembly (the so-called "10mm" version) has a physically smaller driveshaft inside, 58mm in diameter IIRC. The later version, using larger couplers with 12mm bolt holes (beginning in '01) has a 63mm (IIRC) diameter driveshaft.
The good news is, if you are building a setup with high horsepower, you will want to get a later version torque tube assembly as it bolts right up in place of the older, earlier version with no mods, cutting, or drama. The "innards" will not interchange, so you need to replace the whole assembly. Locate a good 2002 - 2004 6 speed torque tube (for 6 speed cars) and check/replace the couplers, or bearings inside, as needed. If you don't have, or can't locate a part number, the easy visual way to tell them apart is that the rear bell-housings on the later versions are welded to the torque tube as opposed to the earlier versions which are bolted on.
The earlier version torque tube assembly (the so-called "10mm" version) has a physically smaller driveshaft inside, 58mm in diameter IIRC. The later version, using larger couplers with 12mm bolt holes (beginning in '01) has a 63mm (IIRC) diameter driveshaft.
The good news is, if you are building a setup with high horsepower, you will want to get a later version torque tube assembly as it bolts right up in place of the older, earlier version with no mods, cutting, or drama. The "innards" will not interchange, so you need to replace the whole assembly. Locate a good 2002 - 2004 6 speed torque tube (for 6 speed cars) and check/replace the couplers, or bearings inside, as needed. If you don't have, or can't locate a part number, the easy visual way to tell them apart is that the rear bell-housings on the later versions are welded to the torque tube as opposed to the earlier versions which are bolted on.
I need to to replace my torque tube assembly in it's entirety. 2000 LS1, A4, coupe; stock motor w/mild trans i.e. stage 2, trans cooler, 2200-2500 stall JW TC, 3:15 diff ratio. Can I do such a straight forward swap for a later model 12mm TT?
Thanks!
05-13-2012, 12:51 PM
#27
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Great Topic, Has anybody thought of using cv joints instead? I know there was some U-joints awhile back but I think the vibration was to severe. I looked for a alternative to this after having a tube blow out about five years ago (60000 miles on car). I thought maybe it was just bad from the factory - the couplers were literly dust in the housing. So I replaced It with a brand new tube. I recently had to remove the engine to replace the rear plate gasket and thought I would check out my old friend the torque tube. And yes, couplers are shot again (140000 miles). So my findings are : couplers are only good for about 5 yrs or around 70000 miles. This is Crap for a awesome car like this. I hope something is available that will end this before my next go around.
05-13-2012, 07:10 PM
#28
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Great Topic, Has anybody thought of using cv joints instead? I know there was some U-joints awhile back but I think the vibration was to severe. I looked for a alternative to this after having a tube blow out about five years ago (60000 miles on car). I thought maybe it was just bad from the factory - the couplers were literly dust in the housing. So I replaced It with a brand new tube. I recently had to remove the engine to replace the rear plate gasket and thought I would check out my old friend the torque tube. And yes, couplers are shot again (140000 miles). So my findings are : couplers are only good for about 5 yrs or around 70000 miles. This is Crap for a awesome car like this. I hope something is available that will end this before my next go around.
totally about this issue being Crap...I'm not an engineer but my guess would be that a CV joint would be a lot of excessive rotating mass and are probably not rated anywhere near 6-7-8000 rpm. I'm surprised these junk couplers can take what they do take! I wonder what the Porcshe guys are doing for their high power 928's. They used the same torque tube set up. I owned one years ago NEVER having these issues or ever hearing about it.
05-13-2012, 09:19 PM
#30
Tech Contributor
05-14-2012, 12:36 PM
#31
AMP Racing
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
so, unless I'm doing something wrong, GMPartshhouse has them for $148 each. Corvette Central has them for $34.95 each...
05-14-2012, 03:37 PM
#32
Safety Car
My C5 coupe a4 is 10yrs old with 85k miles and I never replaced the couplers. I dont hear any noises from the drivetrain or get any vibration. Should I even go through the trouble of checking them? I really doubt that theyre only good for 5yrs.
Last edited by C5Natie; 05-14-2012 at 03:39 PM.
05-14-2012, 03:57 PM
#33
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05-14-2012, 04:33 PM
#34
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yeh, I read that, but didn't they send you a BMW one too, or did I misread what you said?
Did CC send it to you or did you source it from somewhere else, like BMW?
Did CC send it to you or did you source it from somewhere else, like BMW?
05-14-2012, 04:45 PM
#35
Tech Contributor
My couplers were cracked, so I ordered new ones from Corvette Central (BMW replacements). Upon receiving, I immediately noticed a difference in the quality and durometer of the two couplers. One was very soft, and the other was consistent in quality and durometer of the GM couplers I was replacing. I questioned Corvette Central on the disparity, to which they offered no explanation(although they took the return for a refund). The softer coupler came in a plain CC bag, while the good coupler came in a BMW bag(with a BMW part number). I went to my local BMW dealership, and obtained another good coupler consistent with the same quality as the GM units. Based on how soft the coupler was, I would have never installed it on my car, so I'm not surprised you trashed yours.............
05-14-2012, 04:55 PM
#36
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So, CC sent you a BMW coupler (and a worthless chunk of rubber) and you took that part number, went to the local BMW shop and bought a second one, correct? and now you've had these in your car for about 3 years and they're acting fine, correct?
Mine are still stock, to my knowledge, and work fine. But, from reading this thread, I thought I'd do a little research in the event I need to replace them in the future.
thanks
Mine are still stock, to my knowledge, and work fine. But, from reading this thread, I thought I'd do a little research in the event I need to replace them in the future.
thanks
05-14-2012, 05:10 PM
#37
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05-14-2012, 05:49 PM
#39
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Start A poll, With miles and years when torque tube went boom OR couplers needed changed. For your info a bmw 318i uses the same couplers, it has less then 150 hp. You want to argue, go for it. I've changed one tube and another set of couplers in 6 yrs, this is "Brillant".
05-14-2012, 06:00 PM
#40
Tech Contributor
Start A poll, With miles and years when torque tube went boom OR couplers needed changed. For your info a bmw 318i uses the same couplers, it has less then 150 hp. You want to argue, go for it. I've changed one tube and another set of couplers in 6 yrs, this is "Brillant".