tracer1

Has anyone used or know about this oil (Mobil 1 super synthetic)? Is it the same, better or what. Normally I use the regular Mobil 1 synthetic 5-30. Pep Boys has a $30 coupon for the 5 qt. container, so thought I would ask you guys for any info.

Thanks,
tracer1

lucky131969

I talked to a guy, who has a friend, who has a cousin, who is a GM master tech. He says Mobil 1 super beats the pants off Amsoil.

tracer1

Thanks lucky.....Will be using the M1 0-40 now because of the anti-wear additives. Don't know if they have it that weight or no.

tracer1

Paul Wood

Oh yeaaaaah? I have heard that Mobil 1 and Amsoil are actually made from the same base material.

baxsom

yeah and my brothers sisters former roommate said that mobil 1 was group 3 base and amsoil was group 4 base.

Trios

My friend's cousin's girlfriend says they're all just dino oil anyway so you might as well just put in the $1 a quart stuff.

Paul Wood

Amsoil has always had higher base material, it is in their advertising. It is because they use poor quality material in their plastic containers and that leaves a residue on the pistons. Do your research for crying out loud.

helga203

dougbfresh

WHY 0-40??

ZeeOSix

Does this new "Mobil 1 Super Synthetic" meet the GM 4718M spec?

tracer1

I'm sure there are a lot of tech guys that will jump in & burn me but here goes. From what I understand, '0' gets to the engine block components faster on cold starts & '40' has more anti-wear additives. Also, the 40 weight doesn't thin out as much as the 30. Now I'm just repeating what I have heard on this forum from time to time. No oil "guru" here & don't want to be. Don't want to start an oil war here, just wondered if anyone had any info on the M1 Super Synthetic. I looked at some today at Pep Boys (no 0-40).

As for the GM "ok", it didn't have it. But I don't think Royal Purple has that either. I've also heard the european 0-40 is good also.

tracer1

dougbfresh

Stick w/ the 5-W30

always faster

If you want great info on every brand and grade of oil go to the bitog website forum.This is a independant site that test and analize every oil after there normal use. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I ve used Castrol Syntech GERMAN 0w30 (wich is more near a 40 grade oil) because the result/review/detail of this oil was really great.Now im using M1 0W40 because again from all the analisys it seems to be one of the top to use.

So the M1 OW40 is a hell of a great choice.

tracer1

Quote: "So the M1 OW40 is a hell of a great choice."

That's what I've heard also

tracer1

manley845

All kidding aside, I noticed that Wal-Mart's SuperTech oil now has the GM4187 (or whatever. Sorry, I don't have it in front of me. Well, I guess I could Google it instead of typing this explanation, but that wouldn't be as fun. Oh, back to my point) rating. I am actually considering using it going forward. It's been good oil in my other engines that I abused, so it should be okay in the Vette.

That stupid Mobil 1 on the oil cap keeps pushing me towards Mobil 1 oil though. lol

C66 Racing

Mobil's new "super synthetics" slot in under Mobil 1 in terms of performance. From Mobil's website on the super synthetic page:
"For our ultimate in protection and performance consider Mobil 1 5W-30, our advanced full synthetic engine oil."

I suspect, but clearly don't know, that this is Mobil's effort to get more people into synthetics by offering a lower cost alternative to Mobil 1. AMSOIL did the same thing earlier this year with its OE line:
AMSOIL OE Synthetic 5w30 (Product Code OEFQT)

As for the comments about the Mobil 1 0w40, this is a good oil and is what GM uses in the Z06 in Europe where they aren't restricted by US regulations on CAFE (drives lower viscosity fluids) and the API limits on phosphorus (800 ppm). The M1 0w40 has zinc of 1100 ppm and phosphorus of 1000 ppm leading to a High Temp High Shear rating of 3.8 (as compared to 3.1 for M1 5w30). But note that because it is a 40 grade, it doesn't meet GM4718M (or the new dexos1) specification.

Despite the guys cousins friends info above, AMSOIL compares well to the M1 0w40:
AMSOIL SAE Synthetic Premium Protection 10w40 (Product Code AMOQT)
(zinc – 1378 ppm, phosphorus 1265 ppm)
High Temp High Shear rating of 4.3

That said, If I had a C5 daily driver out of warranty, I'd probably use this (which also doesn't meet GM4718M) and is only suitable for 3-5k oil change intervals:
AMSOIL Z-ROD 10w30 Synthetic Motor Oil (Product Code ZRTQT)
(zinc – 1440 ppm, phosphorus 1320 ppm)
High Temp High Shear 3.6

The ZROD is very similar to AMSOIL's racing 10w30 that I use in my car at the track.

Vicarious.

Very nice info...thanks.

Just curious....but why not just add a ZDDP (zinc/phos) additive to your favorite oil weight & brand and call it good?

That's what I've been doing while breaking in my engine.

tracer1

Thanks subdriver for the info. I think the reason GM doesn't certify a lot of the oils are the new restrictions. The additive zinc & phosphorous are supposed to harmful to the cats. You have a choice, protect your motor or protect your cats. Personally, I'd rather replace cats than a motor. All motor oils are made from the same base whether it's Redline, Amsoil, Royal Purple, M1, etc. It's the additive that make the difference. These pressure tests these major oils show on video have no bearing (excuse the pun) on the motor. Yes, you have friction from moving parts but where do you have 6 lbs. of pressure. I understand they're trying to show how well the oil film holds up against heat. Mercedes, BMW, Lotus, Porchse, even Ferrari recommend the 0-40 euro, even GM as you stated. It's just the additives they can't put in the oil in the US is why it's not recommended. As far as the M1 label on the oil cap, If another oil company offered them a better deal, it might have read "chevron 1" instead.
One other thing, why is they're not a 0-? racing oil. All you ever see is 10-? And as Ironembraced said,why can't you just add Zinc & phosphourous to any oil and be done with it?

tracer1

C66 Racing

That is not true - but commonly quoted on the internet.

The API does not regulate the term "synthetic" in the U.S., rather classifies oils into Groups. The terms "synthetic" is regulated by advertising in this country.

API Group summary:
Group I base oils are the least refined of all of the groups. They are usually a mix of different hydrocarbon chains with little or no uniformity. While some automotive oils use these stocks, they are generally used in less demanding applications.

Group II base oils are common in mineral based motor oils. They have fair to good performance in the areas of volatility, oxidation stability, wear prevention and flash/fire points. They have only fair performance in areas such as pour point and cold crank viscosity. Group II base stocks are what the majority of engine oils are made from. 3000 mile oil changes are the norm.

Group III base oils are subjected to the highest level of refining of all the mineral oil stocks. Although not chemically engineered, they offer improved performance in a wide range of areas as well as good molecular uniformity and stability. By definition they are considered a synthesized material and can be used in the production of synthetic and semi-synthetic lubricants. Group III is used in the vast majority of full synthetics or synthetic blends. They are superior to group I and II oils but still have limitations. Some formulations are designed for extended oil changes. Almost all off the shelf synthetics today are Group III.

Group IV are polyalphaolefins (PAO) which are a chemically engineered synthesized basestocks. PAOs offer excellent stability, molecular uniformity and performance over a wide range of lubricating properties. PAO is a much more expensive basestock than the highly refined petroleum oil basestock of Group III.

Group V base oils are also chemically engineered stocks that do not fall into any of the categories previously mentioned. Typical examples of group V stocks are Esters, polyglycols and silicone.

In the 90s, Mobil filed suit against Castrol for falsely advertising Syntec oil as synthetic, when in fact it contained a Group III, highly hydroprocessed mineral (Dino) oil, instead of a chemically synthesized (Group IV or V) basestock. Due to the amount that the mineral oil had been chemically changed, the NAD decided in Castrol's favor. As a result, any oil containing this highly hydroprocessed mineral (Dino) oil (currently called Group III basestock by the American Petroleum Institute) can be marketed as a synthetic oil. Since the original synthetic basestock (polyalphaolefin or PAO) is much more expensive than the Group III basestock, most of the oil blenders switched to the Group III basestock, which significantly increased their profit margins.

So, the summary is that Group III, IV and V can all be labeled "synthetic" in the U.S.. Almost all off the shelf synthetics use Group III and even AMSOIL's lower two tiers (XL and OE) use Group III basestock to remain price competitive. Should be worth noting that there are even variances in the quality of Group III basestocks - even these are not all the same.

Trying to actually find out what basestock companies actually use is almost impossible as about none really say. Royal Purple doesn't say. AMSOIL XL and OE lines are Group III and their top tier Signature Series and other high performance oils are likely a Group IV/V blend - but they don't release the actual formulation. Red Line states they use a Group V polyol ester. Mobil 1 used to be straight Group IV, but now all their website states is "... including PAO...". Could be a Group III/IV blend - who knows and Mobil 1 isn't saying "Just like other companies, we do not discuss our product formulations for obvious proprietary reasons."

You are correct about additives - very much a variable after the basestock - which is also very much a variable.

Addressing your other comments:
- GM's current spec (dexos1) places limitations on phosphorus that preclude high ZDDP oils - as does current API SN specs. Thus to get high ZDDP in oils like the ZROD - you cannot get any current specs.
- Mobil 1 makes a 0w- racing oil. But in most cases, the blenders do not put the viscosity improvers in racing oils needed to get to a 0w- rating as they tend to shear down resulting in viscosity drop. In general, 0w- oils tend to have less high temp high shear protection as well. Neither is what I'm looking for in a racing oil. Take for example, M1 racing 0w30; high temp high shear rating 3.3. AMSOIL's racing 10w30 is 3.6 (as is their street 10w30 ZROD). I use AMSOIL's racing 10w30, but as I only use it hot, not really material to me what its cold rating is. For a drag racer, their might be benefit to a 0w- oil as it might not see the temp extremes I do on the track.
- Some studies have shown that just adding ZDDP to an oil doesn't work as well as using an oil that is formulated with the proper amount of ZDDP - and this is supported by some AMSOIL studies that show that just having more ZDDP doesn't make the oil perform better in anti-wear. Though these are not automotive oil studies, compare the results of the anti-wear tests with the levels of ZDDP. Those that perform the best in anti-wear do not necessarily have the highest levels of ZDDP:
AMSOIL Motorcycle Oil “White Paper” (1 MB pdf file)
AMSOIL Gear Lube “White Paper” (2 MB pdf file)

jimcork1

Well stated and accurate.

FWI.. I use the 10w30 M1 that meets GM spec for the vet. However note I also own a Mercedes 500 series w/V8,, the supercharged engine assembly. It specs 229.51 or above for oil. The Mobile 1 European 0W40 meets this spec and this is the ONLY M1 that meets the MB spec. It is not the preferred oil for the MB engine but does come in the engine from the factory. The MB spec is very high and IMO above the GM spec for the M1 5w30. I see NO problem in using the OW40 M1 European Formual in the vet. We all know the 0 reflects the ability to flow at a specific low temp. (I think the temp is 0 but don't remember w/o checking). The 40 W is the high temp performance of the oil. I have been using this M1 0W40 in my MB V8 for 10 yrs (same HP as the vet engine) and after 120,000 miles the engine still uses no oil between 13,000 mile oil changes. This engine is also driven hard much like I drive my vet. There is one significant issue though on the 13,000 oil change frequency. YOU MUST USE THE MB FLEECE filter. The base filter off the shelf requires dropping to about 8000 mile changes.

What I find interesting is that there are only 2 oils sold over the counter that meet MB specs 229.51 and above. M1 is one of them but these are low on the recommended list. Some of the oils in Europe are better than sold in the US. However they probably won't meet the US emission standards and might hurt some cats.