pgandy

Thanks for looking!



At the risk of double posting (I posted this in general),

I have a 2004 with LS1/automatic that I just picked up as a project to get back on the road. Engine was hydra-locked (it actually runs, missing one cylinder, and with a hole in the side of the block). Not an uncommon occurrence in FL. I will be swapping out the existing LS1 for a replacement engine....likely another LS1/C5/'04 of which I have located several. Except for that one, pesky hole in the block everything else seems in really good shape on the car and was well maintained prior to scooping up a few gallons of water into the intake.


I was looking for some advice on....

• Tech thread on dropping/installing the engine. I have tools, lift, hoist, and have done several other cars but never a vette. This is my first vette. It actually looks more accessible than others
• How important is the ECU with the replacement engine? Same goes for T.A.C. Any issues mating engine to existing electronics?

The only mods I see on the car are Borla exhaust with crossover, K&N intake, and aftermarket radio/nav.


Any input would be greatly appreciated!


Paul

midnight01

Some people were successful pulling the motor from the top, but these cars are not designed to be done that way, considering all the things that need to be disconnected underneath you are better off using a lift to get the motor out from underneath.

pgandy

Thanks! After getting it on the lift and looking at the steps, and chasing a few threads, definitely looks like underneath is the way to go....looks nicely set up for that. I ordered the GM book, 88958786 LS1 -LS6 and also the Haynes on line manual for that car series. So far the Haynes manual is pretty accurate but has several procedures that could probably be avoided with work arounds. Just now starting so it will be nice to see the GM book.


When I get the engine out I'll post some pics of the hole in the block....and wrist arm/piston in case we need a reminder not to drive into standing water too fast.

midnight01

having access to a lift will make the process so easy, by the way, when you said the engine hydro locked, what did they do, drive through a swimming pool? I bet where the hole in the block is is the cylinder that filled with water or they tried to start the car after it hydro locked.
I live in Florida myself and have a vararam and I have yet to see any puddles high enough to worry about driving through. if I did see one I would not even chance it and try to either go around or turn around.

pgandy

C5 project car


Standing water I'm guessing......not puddle, likely a major storm or localized flooding that we've had up around Jupiter to Vero in the last couple of months. Probably someone didn't see it and plowed through it. I purchased it like this after inspection. The engine ran and moved the car....shaking from a bad cylinder. Second time I've seen this but on a Mazda before. No other water damage in the car, just signs of water rushing into the intake, dislodged filter, debris, ...usually runs to the back of the manifold and hits a rear cylinder, doesn't compress and that's it. Sad too, good looking car, well cared for. Can't wait to get it back on the road...make that run across alligator alley.

midnight01

Throw some JBWeld on the hole and call it a day
I bet a good portion of the engine will still be salvageable, save what you can and sell what you cant to finance. Check all electrical too because water is the vettes kryptonite and just a tiny bit will cause all kinds of DIC errors. Pull the passenger fender and fenderwell and check the PCM and all the wiring for corrosion. It looks like the body is in nice shape, could be a gem in the rough.

pgandy

JB Weld..ahh the good old days. Good advice, thanks. I plan to go plug by plug. Will probably redo the chassis rubber, etc., while the drive train is out.


Getting inside the engine will be interesting. Amazing what a loose piston and freewheeling wrist arm will do.

LoneStarFRC

Another thing to keep in mind is: DO NOT use air impact tools/guns for either removal OR when installing the 8 cradle nuts (4 front/ 4 rear). Hand tools ONLY torqued to 80 lbft.

Btw, the PCM (and its programming) is very important, depending on which specific engine you're going to use.

If you're not trying to build a high performance car or hotrod, I think a takeout LS1 (saves money) or reman LS1 is a good hassle-free way to go. If your upper end and accessories are OK (including heads) bolt everything to the replacement engine and your good. You MAY need to reuse your cam, depending on the car the engine comes out of.

HTH

pgandy

Thanks HTH. Yeah, I noticed that emphasized in the write up...hand tools only. Low torque numbers too.


As much as I would like to monkey around with the performance my goal is to find an engine same model year, LS1 from a C5 automatic. This will probably be a weekend cruiser so I would rather cruise and not chase programming/code issues on the weekends....anymore than usual anyway.


I've found a few matches with and without accessories. All accessories seem to be working so as midnight01 mentioned, I may self off extras if engine comes with. Likely the heads need work on the old engine, I'm assuming the piston got away on the bad cylinder and went up into the head. The last engine I pulled apart with the same issue had damage to the valves, head (chamber), lifters, from the piston and damage to the harmonic balancer and mainshaft/camshaft bearings from swinging wristarm and contaminated oil (shavings and chunks). The oil looked a little cleaner coming out of this one.


I considered buying a block and transferring what I could after having them checked and/or remachined but if possible, would like to get it back on the road with a lower mileage engine.


I'm open to any experiences others may have.

LoneStarFRC

Given your stated goals that's a very smart way to go. Remember, if you get an LS6 engine, the pcm programming on LS6 cars (they all came from Z06s) is predicated on certain size injectors, Z06-specific camshafts, RPM range, not to mention the Z06s all have manual transmissions. That's mainly why I recommend staying with a late-model LS1 out of an A4 car.

I also think it VERY worthwhile to replace the crank balancer with a good quality unit, not just another OE piece. Powerbond offers a very good unit, and you do not have to go underdrive if you don't want to. They're being sold by Dayco Co these days and are widely available but shop around for the best price. Do not be put off by the word "race series", as that is simply their best quality, black powdercoated units with snap ring retainers to prevent "pulley walk". Part #PB1117SS is the non-underdrive. If it's a relatively low mileage unit you can leave the oil pump and chain alone, but install new seals (front and rear) if they've been seeping

Btw, borrow, rent, or buy a crank pinning kit and pin the crank and use an ARP crank bolt, not that PITA TTY OE bolt.

pgandy

Thanks. Timely advice, I located/ordered an engine from LKQ, my second engine from them. Part of their warranty requirements is that you replace the main pully/balancer on the replacement engine or swap with the original engine.


The engine is the same year ('04) C5 LS1, nearly identical options, including AT, and has 67k miles. Low for an '04.


I'm about 60% of the way through removing the drivetrain...I've pulled the exhaust and there was absolutely no water inside. I have also gone through the electrical connectors and PCM plugs and see no signs of water/corrosion. I'm guessing the previous owner scooped up water in the intake and kept going with a fried cylinder.


Interesting drive train removal process....these things practically have zippers on them. It is a fair amount of work but you gain access to everything including suspension. I am curious about why you have to remove the shift cable at the shifter assy for the automatic. I'm probably wrong but it looks like you could just disconnect the bracket and shift cable at the transmission end. I've removed the shifter assy but I guess it will be apparent when the chassis gets lifted away.


I've found signs of seepage around the differential but nothing dripping, mainly caked dirt and grease. Boots are okay, ball joints and drop links need attention.


I was hoping for a work around on discharging the A/C but I'm not seeing one. It was blowing cold air on 7 cylinders.


I'll compare cams with the replacement engine when it arrives.

LoneStarFRC

If the engine from LKQ is as you say, the cam should be identical to the one you have now.

Might want to consider new valve stem seals now and I can also recommend Straub Technologies rocker arm bushing upgrade kit. Very good long term insurance not to mention a quieter valve train. Not expensive either. Call Tim or Chris at Straub to order.

Another cautionary note: After pinning the crank snout, do NOT try to use the old balancer bolt to pull your new HB onto the crank. You run the severe risk of pulling threads in the crank snout. Use an installer that has the extra long threads for that purpose.

Big Vig

Following

Rob 02

I bought mine from Miami hydro-locked. I'm in Jax. I did an LS6 mod since my block and crank was still good. I took the engine out on jack stands in my garage. I highly recommend a lift.

pgandy

Nice jackstand work!!!


I took jackstands as far as I could (although you got me beat there). Between kids with cars and project cars I went with a MaxJax 6,000 lb lift from bestbuyautoequipment.com about two years ago. I think I paid $1,995 but after a couple of brake jobs, clutches, and suspension/CV repairs they easily paid for themselves, and they stow away. I've been very happy with them (see pics in thread above). I think they run sales over the summer.


My first hydo-locked project came from College Auto Sales in Miami. They specialize in salvage cars and get several in a month.

Rob 02

You don't have to touch the shifter on the A4. You can just pull the plastic ball in socket plastic link off. If you want to know what to do you are welcome to ask.

The way I got the front so high was by lowering the back when it was time to scoot the engine in and out only. The body alone is fairly light. You raise the body and chassis in several stages through the process.

Rob 02

I did use two floor jacks, 10 jack stands, a motorcycle jack and a come-a long. This is why It is more practical with a lift. After doing it once, I know how to do it cheaper and easier if you are serious about it.

Rob 02

The wiring harness is wrapped tight and form fitting. I would go in the passenger side wheel well and unscrew the flap to expose the ECM. Remove the battery box and remove the ECM cables and set them on top of the engine.

Take plenty of pictures then brake your phone, kidding.

Buy cheep plastic boxes and carefully label where every nut and bolt goes (believe me you will thank yourself later). This is the difference in enjoying the project later and wanting to shoot yourself!
You will know where every nut and bolt belongs. I cannot stress enough how important documentation is when tearing something down. If you heed this this reassembly will seem like fun.

pgandy

Thanks!! Actually, your picture answers about 5 questions right off the bat w/ the suspension.


Your comment also confirms what I'm seeing with the shifter cable.....it looks easier to just disconnect the rear. I didn't see that until I got it on the lift. I removed the shifter assy (according to the procedures) but still rather than hassle with the forward cable bracket in the tunnel I'll disconnect the rear. At least now I know how to disassemble the shifter and console, lol.


I've gone the route of disconnecting all cables from the engine since I was trying to avoid disturbing the PCM/TAC connections as much as possible. I have exposed them as you described just in case and created a little slack. Just about everything is disconnected except for a few straps on the back of the engine....I was able to reach a few of them. I'm assuming that as I lift the chassis slowly the others will be in reach.


I noticed you disconnected the front shocks at the chassis rather than the control arm, still the way to go?


Yes, lots of photos and labeled baggies and connections.

pgandy

When dropping the drivetrain and disconnecting the rear suspension is it necessary to remove the axle nut and free up the drive shaft on each side or can the suspension hang from the crossmember and lower control arm?

Thanks