FIRST Ever Throttle Auto-Blip in C5Z utilizing Stock ECU - REVIEW
11-13-2013, 02:39 AM
#1
FIRST Ever Throttle Auto-Blip in C5Z utilizing Stock ECU - REVIEW
Well it's finally done. Up to now no one has been able to make a throttle blip device that worked with C5 because of the 3 wires on the accelerator position sensor. One has been available for the C6 platform because it uses 2 wires. Today I am happy to announce that this mod is finally a reality for us C5 track junkies. The only other similar theottle blp feature I am aware of in a C5 is only one in where the entire ECU has been replaced with an aftermarket ECU costing upwards of $10k. This system uses the STOCK ECU. It costs $395 for the unit. The unit will function as designed but if you wish to have a custom shifter switch that I describe below that option will cost an estimated $175 additional. That price is subject to change and may go slightly up or down depending on demand and time to assemble each shifter switch.
Why do I want this device? Because as we all know when down shifting on track or performance driving in general we should be using the heel toe method to simultaneously brake with our toes/***** of our feet and blipping the throttle with the heel or side of our right foot while pushing the clutch and selecting the next lower gear. This allows for rev matching of the tranny and engine and minimizes strain on the engine while braking as well as maintains stability of the car to minimize the risk of spinning and thereby maximize cornering stability.
Recently I contacted Tractive Technology the makers of the Auto-BliP at auto-blip.com and they had said that they were working on a prototype for C5 but it had not been beta tested yet. Another forum member was supposed to beta test the unit but somehow that fell through. So I spoke with them and became the beta tester.
The unit works as designed by Tractive Tech. To be wired to the accelerator pedal, brake, and clutch. The driver sets the delay before the blip occurs whenever the brake and clutch are pressed simultaneously as well as the duration of the blip. There is no intensity of the blip setting. It is basically managed by having a longer duration blip. I was initially not fond of this design because it means that if you are braking from a loner straight you may need a longer delay before engaging the next lower gear and needing the blip. On a shorter straight you may be braking less and down shifting faster than on a longer straight. The delay setting would not accommodate this. I spoke with my mechanic Vern from Vern's Chevy Service Center at 1649 S Missouri Ave. Clearwater Fl. Phone number (727) 585-0000. He and I botH agreed that the ideal situation would be one where the blip is made as the gear is selected. As soon as that is done you let out the clutch. Timing would be more fluid and not dependent on a certain time delay after onset of braking. The only answer was to make a switch that is wired to the Shifter as well as the AutoBlip. Now when the brake and a gear are selected simultaneously there is a throttle blip. The blip intensity is still based on the duration setting ****.
Despite many saying it could not be done because of sensors and timing tables, etc interfering with the blip and resulting in a limp mode we have proven them wrong.
How well does it work? ....Very well!!. There is a seemless blip of the throttle at the exact moment you select a gear while depressing the brake. Since up shifts are never while applying the brake no blip occurs there. Currently the system is only wired to Vern's custom shifter switch and the brake wire on the Auto-Blip device. The clutch wire is not wired in. We may fool around with the clutch wiring in the future but for this beta test it is not connected. This also means there is no delay setting so that **** is not functional currently on my setup. We may try different setups in the future with that as well to experiment. The duration **** settings range from 6:30 to 5:30 being 0% to 100% max blip, respectively. When set about 10:00 it provides a blip of about 1000 RPMs and around 12:00 is about 2200 rpm blip and 5:30 is about a 3300 rpm blip. These numbers are only approximates. Some of the blip intensity is determined by the speed at which you select a gear. If you select the gear at 3000 rpm there is a slightly less blip than if selected at 4500 rpm even with the same duration setting.
The auto-blip does take some getting used to because the are 2 situations I have run across where the blip is a bit awkward and you have to learn to avoid the blip. The first is when stopped at a light. I am in neutral with foot off clutch. As the light turns green I press the clutch and select 1st gear while Right foot Is still on the brake...Auto-Blip is activated. I transition to the accelerator but the blip has just occurred and I seem a bit foolish revving my engine at the light...got a few funny looks. The work around this is of course to let my foot off the brake a split second before selecting the gear and transition earlier to the accelerator without causing a blip. The other time that I need to relearn how to accommodate the auto blip is when down shifting on a slow turn....like a clover leaf exit ramp. Here I tend to brake and coast a second or two before engaging the next lower gear. However, my foot is no longer on the brake and I am EXPECTING the blip, engage the lower gear and let foot off the clutch without a blip of the throttle that I was accustomed to doing to rev match. Now the car lurches because there is no rev match where I expected one to occur. The solution of course is do not coast in neutral or to rev match myself with a blip of the throttle, but not a true heel toe since my foot is no longer on the brake.
So far so good. I have only driven it about 20 miles with the AutoBlip on. It is easily turned off with a press of the power button if you intend to only use it on the track. It works very well except for the minor issues described above. I plan to attend an HPDE this weekend and assuming the rain stays away I will try to put the Blip to use at the track and record some videos. For now I will post the few pics and crappy cell phone video we have of the unit blipping until I can get better ones in the next few days.
Why do I want this device? Because as we all know when down shifting on track or performance driving in general we should be using the heel toe method to simultaneously brake with our toes/***** of our feet and blipping the throttle with the heel or side of our right foot while pushing the clutch and selecting the next lower gear. This allows for rev matching of the tranny and engine and minimizes strain on the engine while braking as well as maintains stability of the car to minimize the risk of spinning and thereby maximize cornering stability.
Recently I contacted Tractive Technology the makers of the Auto-BliP at auto-blip.com and they had said that they were working on a prototype for C5 but it had not been beta tested yet. Another forum member was supposed to beta test the unit but somehow that fell through. So I spoke with them and became the beta tester.
The unit works as designed by Tractive Tech. To be wired to the accelerator pedal, brake, and clutch. The driver sets the delay before the blip occurs whenever the brake and clutch are pressed simultaneously as well as the duration of the blip. There is no intensity of the blip setting. It is basically managed by having a longer duration blip. I was initially not fond of this design because it means that if you are braking from a loner straight you may need a longer delay before engaging the next lower gear and needing the blip. On a shorter straight you may be braking less and down shifting faster than on a longer straight. The delay setting would not accommodate this. I spoke with my mechanic Vern from Vern's Chevy Service Center at 1649 S Missouri Ave. Clearwater Fl. Phone number (727) 585-0000. He and I botH agreed that the ideal situation would be one where the blip is made as the gear is selected. As soon as that is done you let out the clutch. Timing would be more fluid and not dependent on a certain time delay after onset of braking. The only answer was to make a switch that is wired to the Shifter as well as the AutoBlip. Now when the brake and a gear are selected simultaneously there is a throttle blip. The blip intensity is still based on the duration setting ****.
Despite many saying it could not be done because of sensors and timing tables, etc interfering with the blip and resulting in a limp mode we have proven them wrong.
How well does it work? ....Very well!!. There is a seemless blip of the throttle at the exact moment you select a gear while depressing the brake. Since up shifts are never while applying the brake no blip occurs there. Currently the system is only wired to Vern's custom shifter switch and the brake wire on the Auto-Blip device. The clutch wire is not wired in. We may fool around with the clutch wiring in the future but for this beta test it is not connected. This also means there is no delay setting so that **** is not functional currently on my setup. We may try different setups in the future with that as well to experiment. The duration **** settings range from 6:30 to 5:30 being 0% to 100% max blip, respectively. When set about 10:00 it provides a blip of about 1000 RPMs and around 12:00 is about 2200 rpm blip and 5:30 is about a 3300 rpm blip. These numbers are only approximates. Some of the blip intensity is determined by the speed at which you select a gear. If you select the gear at 3000 rpm there is a slightly less blip than if selected at 4500 rpm even with the same duration setting.
The auto-blip does take some getting used to because the are 2 situations I have run across where the blip is a bit awkward and you have to learn to avoid the blip. The first is when stopped at a light. I am in neutral with foot off clutch. As the light turns green I press the clutch and select 1st gear while Right foot Is still on the brake...Auto-Blip is activated. I transition to the accelerator but the blip has just occurred and I seem a bit foolish revving my engine at the light...got a few funny looks. The work around this is of course to let my foot off the brake a split second before selecting the gear and transition earlier to the accelerator without causing a blip. The other time that I need to relearn how to accommodate the auto blip is when down shifting on a slow turn....like a clover leaf exit ramp. Here I tend to brake and coast a second or two before engaging the next lower gear. However, my foot is no longer on the brake and I am EXPECTING the blip, engage the lower gear and let foot off the clutch without a blip of the throttle that I was accustomed to doing to rev match. Now the car lurches because there is no rev match where I expected one to occur. The solution of course is do not coast in neutral or to rev match myself with a blip of the throttle, but not a true heel toe since my foot is no longer on the brake.
So far so good. I have only driven it about 20 miles with the AutoBlip on. It is easily turned off with a press of the power button if you intend to only use it on the track. It works very well except for the minor issues described above. I plan to attend an HPDE this weekend and assuming the rain stays away I will try to put the Blip to use at the track and record some videos. For now I will post the few pics and crappy cell phone video we have of the unit blipping until I can get better ones in the next few days.
The following 2 users liked this post by BigGun:
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11-13-2013, 05:39 PM
#4
Thanks for the input...
#1) Who said I dont know how to heel toe already? I may not be Bob Bondurant efficient at heel toe but I know how to do it. Practicing to become SUPER proficient at this would take me several weeks to months dedicated at it. Driving in stop and go traffic is probably not the smartest way to learn this. On the track at >100 mph is also not the smarter way to become very proficient at this. It will take me relatively deserted roads and many hours to becme better at it. I certainly have the dexterity to do so and STILL plan to become proficient at it with further practice. This just makes it easier.
#2) Do you ride without your ABS?....I doubt it. Why not? Dont you know how to "properly" threshold brake. You do know threshold braking is more efficient than leaving ABS on right? Yet you and I everyone else still drives with ABS because it is easier, probably safer, and more efficient than anything we can do in the majority of cases. Same thing here.
#3) You do realize that most modern race cars and many modern high performance cars have this option in place, dont you? Would you tell a F1 driver today he should just learn to properly heel toe? I may not have Vettle's talent but I have my doubts if Sebastian Vettle has even driven a car with a clutch in it. Most modern racecars are also clutchless sequential transmissions. Why dont those guys just learn to properly drive a stick and heel toe? Its called progress. Being more efficient, and safer at driving fast is the goal here. If modern technology helps achieve this goal safely then I am all for it.
As I said above and in other posts, I still plan to learn how to master heel toe but this autoblip sure helps.
C5Z06CE
#1) Who said I dont know how to heel toe already? I may not be Bob Bondurant efficient at heel toe but I know how to do it. Practicing to become SUPER proficient at this would take me several weeks to months dedicated at it. Driving in stop and go traffic is probably not the smartest way to learn this. On the track at >100 mph is also not the smarter way to become very proficient at this. It will take me relatively deserted roads and many hours to becme better at it. I certainly have the dexterity to do so and STILL plan to become proficient at it with further practice. This just makes it easier.
#2) Do you ride without your ABS?....I doubt it. Why not? Dont you know how to "properly" threshold brake. You do know threshold braking is more efficient than leaving ABS on right? Yet you and I everyone else still drives with ABS because it is easier, probably safer, and more efficient than anything we can do in the majority of cases. Same thing here.
#3) You do realize that most modern race cars and many modern high performance cars have this option in place, dont you? Would you tell a F1 driver today he should just learn to properly heel toe? I may not have Vettle's talent but I have my doubts if Sebastian Vettle has even driven a car with a clutch in it. Most modern racecars are also clutchless sequential transmissions. Why dont those guys just learn to properly drive a stick and heel toe? Its called progress. Being more efficient, and safer at driving fast is the goal here. If modern technology helps achieve this goal safely then I am all for it.
As I said above and in other posts, I still plan to learn how to master heel toe but this autoblip sure helps.
C5Z06CE
11-14-2013, 04:09 AM
#5
Running Guns & Moonshine
I love tech gadgets and this sounds fun, but all I am picturing is transitioning from a stop on a hill in traffic having forgotten the auto-blip is there and either doing a smoke show or hitting something.
Fun for fooling around, but possibly not refined enough for an off-track car.
Fun for fooling around, but possibly not refined enough for an off-track car.
11-14-2013, 06:26 AM
#6
Team Owner
........
The auto-blip does take some getting used to because the are 2 situations I have run across where the blip is a bit awkward and you have to learn to avoid the blip. The first is when stopped at a light. I am in neutral with foot off clutch. As the light turns green I press the clutch and select 1st gear while Right foot Is still on the brake...Auto-Blip is activated. I transition to the accelerator but the blip has just occurred and I seem a bit foolish revving my engine at the light...got a few funny looks. The work around this is of course to let my foot off the brake a split second before selecting the gear and transition earlier to the accelerator without causing a blip..........
The auto-blip does take some getting used to because the are 2 situations I have run across where the blip is a bit awkward and you have to learn to avoid the blip. The first is when stopped at a light. I am in neutral with foot off clutch. As the light turns green I press the clutch and select 1st gear while Right foot Is still on the brake...Auto-Blip is activated. I transition to the accelerator but the blip has just occurred and I seem a bit foolish revving my engine at the light...got a few funny looks. The work around this is of course to let my foot off the brake a split second before selecting the gear and transition earlier to the accelerator without causing a blip..........
Last edited by LoneStarFRC; 11-14-2013 at 06:56 PM. Reason: typo/add highlight to comment for reference
11-14-2013, 03:07 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Thanks for the input...
#2) Do you ride without your ABS?....I doubt it. Why not? Dont you know how to "properly" threshold brake. You do know threshold braking is more efficient than leaving ABS on right? Yet you and I everyone else still drives with ABS because it is easier, probably safer, and more efficient than anything we can do in the majority of cases. Same thing here.
C5Z06CE
#2) Do you ride without your ABS?....I doubt it. Why not? Dont you know how to "properly" threshold brake. You do know threshold braking is more efficient than leaving ABS on right? Yet you and I everyone else still drives with ABS because it is easier, probably safer, and more efficient than anything we can do in the majority of cases. Same thing here.
C5Z06CE
In a car without ABS, if you trail brake into a turn, and 1 wheel locks up, you have to either pump the brakes or just let it lock up while you bring the other 3 wheels as close to the threshold as you can. Your decision between the two is obvioulsy based on your under/oversteer situation.
By pumping the brakes, you are not only releasing the brakes on the tire that is locked, but also the others that are under the threshold. If the ABS system can keep the locked wheel turning, you don't have to pump the brakes. This allows you to keep the rest of the tires under constant threshold.
Even if you have 3 tires at 99% threshold, and 1 locked up, you will still get better results with ABS which will allow you to keep those 3 tires at 99%, and the would-be locked up tire around 80% instead of something like 40% traction when it's locked up.
ABS isn't just for people who don't know how to drive. It is hugely beneficial.
As for the auto-rev, have you noticed the downshifting to be any slower? I usually blip the throttle just as i come out of the previous gear. This system requires that you start to go into gear before it revs. This also means that during the rev matching, the synchronizers are working to get the gear up to speed. If downshifting manually, you can blip the throttle fast enough right after releasing the clutch to come out of your previous gear that it is already up to speed with the next gear before you begin to shift into that gear, and the synchros do almost no work. The difference I see is this is more of a passive feedback system whereas if downshifting manually, you can anticipate gear changes resulting in faster shifts and less synchro wear. All this being said of course if you know what you are doing. The only way I see this system being capable of being on par with proper manual downshifting is for it to be able to read your thoughts. Give it 20 years. That might no be so farfetched.
Last edited by SaberD; 11-14-2013 at 03:28 PM.
11-14-2013, 04:50 PM
#9
It is impossible to outperform ABS on a track. Only in a straight line is it possible. In a car with 4 wheel ABS, you could lock up 1 wheel while the others are still under the threshold, and it will keep that wheel rotating.
In a car without ABS, if you trail brake into a turn, and 1 wheel locks up, you have to either pump the brakes or just let it lock up while you bring the other 3 wheels as close to the threshold as you can. Your decision between the two is obvioulsy based on your under/oversteer situation.
By pumping the brakes, you are not only releasing the brakes on the tire that is locked, but also the others that are under the threshold. If the ABS system can keep the locked wheel turning, you don't have to pump the brakes. This allows you to keep the rest of the tires under constant threshold.
Even if you have 3 tires at 99% threshold, and 1 locked up, you will still get better results with ABS which will allow you to keep those 3 tires at 99%, and the would-be locked up tire around 80% instead of something like 40% traction when it's locked up.
ABS isn't just for people who don't know how to drive. It is hugely beneficial.
As for the auto-rev, have you noticed the downshifting to be any slower? I usually blip the throttle just as i come out of the previous gear. This system requires that you start to go into gear before it revs. This also means that during the rev matching, the synchronizers are working to get the gear up to speed. If downshifting manually, you can blip the throttle fast enough right after releasing the clutch to come out of your previous gear that it is already up to speed with the next gear before you begin to shift into that gear, and the synchros do almost no work. The difference I see is this is more of a passive feedback system whereas if downshifting manually, you can anticipate gear changes resulting in faster shifts and less synchro wear. All this being said of course if you know what you are doing. The only way I see this system being capable of being on par with proper manual downshifting is for it to be able to read your thoughts. Give it 20 years. That might no be so farfetched.
In a car without ABS, if you trail brake into a turn, and 1 wheel locks up, you have to either pump the brakes or just let it lock up while you bring the other 3 wheels as close to the threshold as you can. Your decision between the two is obvioulsy based on your under/oversteer situation.
By pumping the brakes, you are not only releasing the brakes on the tire that is locked, but also the others that are under the threshold. If the ABS system can keep the locked wheel turning, you don't have to pump the brakes. This allows you to keep the rest of the tires under constant threshold.
Even if you have 3 tires at 99% threshold, and 1 locked up, you will still get better results with ABS which will allow you to keep those 3 tires at 99%, and the would-be locked up tire around 80% instead of something like 40% traction when it's locked up.
ABS isn't just for people who don't know how to drive. It is hugely beneficial.
As for the auto-rev, have you noticed the downshifting to be any slower? I usually blip the throttle just as i come out of the previous gear. This system requires that you start to go into gear before it revs. This also means that during the rev matching, the synchronizers are working to get the gear up to speed. If downshifting manually, you can blip the throttle fast enough right after releasing the clutch to come out of your previous gear that it is already up to speed with the next gear before you begin to shift into that gear, and the synchros do almost no work. The difference I see is this is more of a passive feedback system whereas if downshifting manually, you can anticipate gear changes resulting in faster shifts and less synchro wear. All this being said of course if you know what you are doing. The only way I see this system being capable of being on par with proper manual downshifting is for it to be able to read your thoughts. Give it 20 years. That might no be so farfetched.
As for speed of downshifting, it's is faster or the same. Vern hooked it up so that the switch is actually triggered just a split sec before the shifter is in gear. He can adjust that too. I didn't mention it but the way he hooked it up he said he can make the blip occur at almost ANY POINT in the shifting process with the shifter. It really is a cool setup. I will be going to the track Sat and will get video and post up as soon as possible.
C5Z06CE
11-14-2013, 09:58 PM
#11
I love tech gadgets and this sounds fun, but all I am picturing is transitioning from a stop on a hill in traffic having forgotten the auto-blip is there and either doing a smoke show or hitting something.
Fun for fooling around, but possibly not refined enough for an off-track car.
Fun for fooling around, but possibly not refined enough for an off-track car.
At a light if your foot is on the brake and you shift to 1st gear you get a blip of about 1 sec. The blip is going on while your foot is still on the clutch so you end up revving and going no where unless you suddenly move your foot to the accelerator. When you feel the rev happening you end up not taking your foot off the brake. If you move your right foot about .25 sec earlier off the brake and your left foot is still on the clutch you shift to 1st without causing a blip....because your not on the brake.
On a hill I just time it even closer so its almost simultaneous where you take right foot off brake and shift to 1st. Then while letting clutch out you press accelerator.
I hope that helps. Over the next few days I will try to video at a stop and purposely make it rev and then demonstrate how you adjust to it. It really is simple.
C5Z06CE
11-15-2013, 08:25 AM
#12
Team Owner
11-15-2013, 12:00 PM
#13
Could their be a way for the VSS to have input into this set-up in order to disable "auto-blip" whenever vehicle speed is at "0" (or maybe 0 to 5mph range somewhere)? Vehicle speed is constantly monitored by the PCM anyway of course. Some slight increase in cost I would presume.........
11-16-2013, 10:58 PM
#14
Finally got it done guys. Here are 3 videos that show the AutoBlip.
1)
This video shows demo of AutoBlip feature in traffic. I demo the avoidance of the blip when stopped at a light, what happens if you dont avoid the blip at a light/stop sign, and the shudder/jerk that occurs when you don't time the clutch release exactly perfect. This shudder is relatively mild as you'll see in the video.
2)
Demo of AutoBlip feature in crusing and various highway speeds. Also demos how to adjust the AutoBlip and MAX Blip when set all the way up.
3)
Demo of the AutoBlip feature at the track. The day was foggy and wet. I do not have a mount for inside the car so I chose to mount the GoPro outside. Fog clouded this visibility of the tach. Read captions provided for details and watch my right hand and car balance on the slower parts of the track as I downshift. This track was 1.5 miles and could be done in 2nd and 3rd gears. Downshifting was smooth and reliable and EASY to perform. The last portion of the video shows a slight shudder where I let the clutch out a split second too late on a slow portion of the track.
The morning session had a different configuration than the afternoon. The afternoon session was faster and could be done in 2nd,3rd, and 4th gears. I reached speeds of up to 118 mph on the straight in 4th then braking to AutoBlip downshift at about 68 mph to 3rd without hesitation. Never did I feel unsteady or concerned about the balance. I started the day heel toeing without AutoBlip and soon began using it because I was more efficient with the AutoBlip and could brake later and shift later. My heel toe abilities are mediocre at present so I had to brake earlier to make sure the car was settled before turning in. AutoBlip helped make me more fluid and allowed more time at full throttle and braking later. If I mastered heel toe I imagine there would be minimal difference with or without AutoBlip.
Let me know what you think.
C5Z06CE
1)
This video shows demo of AutoBlip feature in traffic. I demo the avoidance of the blip when stopped at a light, what happens if you dont avoid the blip at a light/stop sign, and the shudder/jerk that occurs when you don't time the clutch release exactly perfect. This shudder is relatively mild as you'll see in the video.
2)
Demo of AutoBlip feature in crusing and various highway speeds. Also demos how to adjust the AutoBlip and MAX Blip when set all the way up.
3)
Demo of the AutoBlip feature at the track. The day was foggy and wet. I do not have a mount for inside the car so I chose to mount the GoPro outside. Fog clouded this visibility of the tach. Read captions provided for details and watch my right hand and car balance on the slower parts of the track as I downshift. This track was 1.5 miles and could be done in 2nd and 3rd gears. Downshifting was smooth and reliable and EASY to perform. The last portion of the video shows a slight shudder where I let the clutch out a split second too late on a slow portion of the track.
The morning session had a different configuration than the afternoon. The afternoon session was faster and could be done in 2nd,3rd, and 4th gears. I reached speeds of up to 118 mph on the straight in 4th then braking to AutoBlip downshift at about 68 mph to 3rd without hesitation. Never did I feel unsteady or concerned about the balance. I started the day heel toeing without AutoBlip and soon began using it because I was more efficient with the AutoBlip and could brake later and shift later. My heel toe abilities are mediocre at present so I had to brake earlier to make sure the car was settled before turning in. AutoBlip helped make me more fluid and allowed more time at full throttle and braking later. If I mastered heel toe I imagine there would be minimal difference with or without AutoBlip.
Let me know what you think.
C5Z06CE
Last edited by C5Z06CE; 11-16-2013 at 11:07 PM.
11-17-2013, 01:55 PM
#16
This is setup to blip with the brake and shifter because on the track that's what you'll be doing. On track is where I think this shines but as I have said as a daily driving thing it gets a bit unnecessary. On track, for me at least, it helped me be smoother and faster through turns which lowered my lap times. Since my heel toe technique is not perfect when I heel toe I compensate by braking earlier in case I unsettle the car by not being at the right rpm before I turn in. With this AutoBlip it was seamless or nearly seemless transition and allowed me to brake late and downshift without unsettling the car. A small barely audible chirp of the tires (as seen in the track video) is all I ever had with the AutoBlp if not timed perfect. As we all know smooth is fast and I was definitely smoother with it than without.
08-31-2014, 10:23 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
I have it on mine and it works amazing. And my car is a 600 hp track car with built everything, race everything, and I drive it like I want to blow it up. I see a lot of posts here from guys with floor mats talking about why it wouldn't be good. Lol. Don't buy it then.
08-31-2014, 11:43 PM
#20
Safety Car
Hahaha so true, there are so many posts about floor mats it's almost comical.