My 402 stroker surprise surprise!!!
09-06-2014, 12:33 PM
#22
Drifting
The motor is from TSP which are very reputable but i dont think so because they are not the ones actually placing it in the vehicle. The shop has done many strokers in vettes. But as you can see, crazy things do happen
09-06-2014, 11:30 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
09-06-2014, 11:38 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Ive read several horror stories of the crank having to much end play and taking out the thrust bearings, i cant wait to see what the oil pan off shows, Can you disconnect the rods from under the motor and tell if the crank is in need of turning?And do you have to remove motor to install thrust bearings?
09-07-2014, 06:28 AM
#25
Race Director
Ive read several horror stories of the crank having to much end play and taking out the thrust bearings, i cant wait to see what the oil pan off shows, Can you disconnect the rods from under the motor and tell if the crank is in need of turning?And do you have to remove motor to install thrust bearings?
Good Luck!
09-07-2014, 10:49 AM
#26
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: orlando florida
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St. Jude Donor '15
Ive read several horror stories of the crank having to much end play and taking out the thrust bearings, i cant wait to see what the oil pan off shows, Can you disconnect the rods from under the motor and tell if the crank is in need of turning?And do you have to remove motor to install thrust bearings?
Last edited by mrr23; 09-07-2014 at 10:53 AM.
09-07-2014, 02:16 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
09-11-2014, 10:36 PM
#29
Le Mans Master
There's no way you're going to replace one of those in the car without some serious work. The rest of the drivetrain would have to be dropped to get to the back of the motor and get the flywheel off, and by the time you tear the oil pain and the whole front of the motor off... Even then, you aren't going to be able to get the crank all the way out without pulling the heads and pushing some of the pistons to TDC. You *MIGHT* be able to pull the center main cap, and lower the others enough to drop the crank down a hair to wiggle a new bearing in, but even then how do you intend to get everything torqued properly?
09-13-2014, 10:51 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
There's no way you're going to replace one of those in the car without some serious work. The rest of the drivetrain would have to be dropped to get to the back of the motor and get the flywheel off, and by the time you tear the oil pain and the whole front of the motor off... Even then, you aren't going to be able to get the crank all the way out without pulling the heads and pushing some of the pistons to TDC. You *MIGHT* be able to pull the center main cap, and lower the others enough to drop the crank down a hair to wiggle a new bearing in, but even then how do you intend to get everything torqued properly?
09-18-2014, 10:22 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
UPDATE!!
UPDATE! !
As of today the builder is standing Tall.
hes dropped the pan .he found what he thought could be a broken valve guide.
he swears that its not bearing material in the pan.
So earlier today he was pulling the heads. Then later today he text me and said the motor would be out by tomorrow, Dont know what he saw if and when he pulled the heads. He likes to talk through texting..
So he knows im very very limited on funds. ( hell im still paying for last years motor ) But hes moving forward on his on.
UPDATE! !
As of today the builder is standing Tall.
hes dropped the pan .he found what he thought could be a broken valve guide.
he swears that its not bearing material in the pan.
So earlier today he was pulling the heads. Then later today he text me and said the motor would be out by tomorrow, Dont know what he saw if and when he pulled the heads. He likes to talk through texting..
So he knows im very very limited on funds. ( hell im still paying for last years motor ) But hes moving forward on his on.
09-18-2014, 10:34 PM
#32
Le Mans Master
UPDATE!!
UPDATE! !
As of today the builder is standing Tall.
hes dropped the pan .he found what he thought could be a broken valve guide.
he swears that its not bearing material in the pan.
So earlier today he was pulling the heads. Then later today he text me and said the motor would be out by tomorrow, Dont know what he saw if and when he pulled the heads. He likes to talk through texting..
So he knows im very very limited on funds. ( hell im still paying for last years motor ) But hes moving forward on his on.
UPDATE! !
As of today the builder is standing Tall.
hes dropped the pan .he found what he thought could be a broken valve guide.
he swears that its not bearing material in the pan.
So earlier today he was pulling the heads. Then later today he text me and said the motor would be out by tomorrow, Dont know what he saw if and when he pulled the heads. He likes to talk through texting..
So he knows im very very limited on funds. ( hell im still paying for last years motor ) But hes moving forward on his on.
Hopefully he stands behind it with no out of pocket cost to you.. 1000 miles is ridiculous...
Sometimes sh*t happens, it's all in how the engine builder handles it.
09-19-2014, 09:38 AM
#33
Drifting
I seriously doubt that is valve guide in the pan.....possible sure but.. Not likely. He pulled the motor because it likely ate a bearing...wouldn't surprise me if it lost the thrust bearing, likely due to incorrect setup during assembly.. Hence why he pulled it.
Hopefully he stands behind it with no out of pocket cost to you.. 1000 miles is ridiculous...
Sometimes sh*t happens, it's all in how the engine builder handles it.
Hopefully he stands behind it with no out of pocket cost to you.. 1000 miles is ridiculous...
Sometimes sh*t happens, it's all in how the engine builder handles it.
09-23-2014, 05:39 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
Pro Mechanic
Member Since: Nov 2013
Location: Ex DPRK, now just N of Medford, OR
Posts: 2,911
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It's easy to have that warm glow when every thing goes well, but the true test of quality is how things are handled when they go wrong. Sounds like you have a stand-up guy... Hope so!
09-23-2014, 06:44 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
UPDATE
UPDATE
The motor is apart. What the builder has found is a spun and broke bearing , He says its very unusual to see a bearing break,
So as of today the crank and rod was going back to the machine shop to check for trueness of the two. im still wondering how that happens with 1000 miles , im assuming that with a broke bearing and the vibration i could feel in the pedals
that the cylinder walls could be outta round some?
UPDATE
The motor is apart. What the builder has found is a spun and broke bearing , He says its very unusual to see a bearing break,
So as of today the crank and rod was going back to the machine shop to check for trueness of the two. im still wondering how that happens with 1000 miles , im assuming that with a broke bearing and the vibration i could feel in the pedals
that the cylinder walls could be outta round some?
09-23-2014, 06:58 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
The reason the bearing broke was that it was worn paper thin... The bearing should never actually contact the crank... There should be just enough clearance in the bearings for oil to flow through there with resistance..(providing oil pressure) and to "float" the crank a thin layer of oil..
Basically.. The engine builder either did not set the bearing clearance correct, had an oiling problem to that journal, or resized the rods incorrectly (which he would have discovered during the mock up and clearance check)...Last thing could be he over torqued the rod bolts, thus changing the clamping force and bearing clearance.
Basically, its the builder's responsibility... He Fd up.
The whole thing needs to be boiled and cleaned up very well, turn the crank, put all new bearings in it, resize the rods and mock it up and measure clearances again. Ask for a blueprint the whole thing and see where the clearances are at when he is done.
Basically.. The engine builder either did not set the bearing clearance correct, had an oiling problem to that journal, or resized the rods incorrectly (which he would have discovered during the mock up and clearance check)...Last thing could be he over torqued the rod bolts, thus changing the clamping force and bearing clearance.
Basically, its the builder's responsibility... He Fd up.
The whole thing needs to be boiled and cleaned up very well, turn the crank, put all new bearings in it, resize the rods and mock it up and measure clearances again. Ask for a blueprint the whole thing and see where the clearances are at when he is done.
09-23-2014, 07:20 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
The reason the bearing broke was that it was worn paper thin... The bearing should never actually contact the crank... There should be just enough clearance in the bearings for oil to flow through there with resistance..(providing oil pressure) and to "float" the crank a thin layer of oil..
Basically.. The engine builder either did not set the bearing clearance correct, had an oiling problem to that journal, or resized the rods incorrectly (which he would have discovered during the mock up and clearance check)...Last thing could be he over torqued the rod bolts, thus changing the clamping force and bearing clearance.
Basically, its the builder's responsibility... He Fd up.
The whole thing needs to be boiled and cleaned up very well, turn the crank, put all new bearings in it, resize the rods and mock it up and measure clearances again. Ask for a blueprint the whole thing and see where the clearances are at when he is done.
Basically.. The engine builder either did not set the bearing clearance correct, had an oiling problem to that journal, or resized the rods incorrectly (which he would have discovered during the mock up and clearance check)...Last thing could be he over torqued the rod bolts, thus changing the clamping force and bearing clearance.
Basically, its the builder's responsibility... He Fd up.
The whole thing needs to be boiled and cleaned up very well, turn the crank, put all new bearings in it, resize the rods and mock it up and measure clearances again. Ask for a blueprint the whole thing and see where the clearances are at when he is done.
I will say that when i picked up the car after it was built , oil pressure would NOT go above 55 lbs at wot and 35 at idle and thats with 50 weight oil in it, and no break in oil was used when he broke it in on the dyno, So at about the 500 mile mark, i furnished a new mellon oil pump and had him change it out for free . he had a stock pump in it , i wanted a high volume, pressure went up to 65 lb at wot 50 at idle.
wonder if could have been a problem from moment one?
09-23-2014, 09:01 PM
#39
Le Mans Master
Very likely... However the first oil pressure numbers didn't sound too bad.. Although with 50 weight molasses in it, it should have been higher.
Oil temps have a huge effect on oil pressure as well. You shouldn't have to run 50wt oil. 40wt I can see...50wt is masking a problem.
On my 402,
I normally see around 65 psi @wot at 200* oil temp, oil pressure at idle is normally around 35 psi at 200* oil temp.. However if my oil temp gets up to 230* or so, it will idle around 25 psi.. I have seen as low as 22 psi.... This is with 10w40.
Its all about clearances and temps. Extra oil pressure is just eating HP
Oil temps have a huge effect on oil pressure as well. You shouldn't have to run 50wt oil. 40wt I can see...50wt is masking a problem.
On my 402,
I normally see around 65 psi @wot at 200* oil temp, oil pressure at idle is normally around 35 psi at 200* oil temp.. However if my oil temp gets up to 230* or so, it will idle around 25 psi.. I have seen as low as 22 psi.... This is with 10w40.
Its all about clearances and temps. Extra oil pressure is just eating HP
09-25-2014, 07:25 AM
#40
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
UPDATE
UPDATE
The engine builder has the crank and a rod at the machine shop. Oversizing the rod and turning the crank.
reusing the rings, but replacing all the bearings.he says I should have my car back next Friday as good as new.
So far he hasnt mentioned any money from me.
UPDATE
The engine builder has the crank and a rod at the machine shop. Oversizing the rod and turning the crank.
reusing the rings, but replacing all the bearings.he says I should have my car back next Friday as good as new.
So far he hasnt mentioned any money from me.