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I agree that the torque tube transmits a lot more noise than a typical manual trans setup. I don't notice any excessive vibration with my car but NVH is a fact of life as I have full poly bushings in the suspension and solid rod ends with the sways. I suppose it's all comes down to what your tolerance is for NVH in a sports car.
My point is that the added hot balance addresses added noise associated with corvettes but has no impact on the reliability as it isn't done on any of the other LSX applications. I don't believe having an LS3 or LS7 conversion done on a C5 is inherently less reliable than the stock LS6.
As I said earlier, If my car still had the stock LS6 I would have done the "match balance" procedure. Why not? It doesn't cost that much extra. I'm also not worried that I didn't do it with my LS3 setup.
There is only " One " right way to do a clutch on a C5, and that is to replace the clutch pressure plate and flywheel as a zero balanced unit, and then add the weight slugs from the original externally balance original fly wheel, at this time you want to replace the master and slave as well... Putting a clutch disc in a C5 without replacing the pressure plate and flywheel is just a half assed way to do it..
Sorry to dig up an old thread. i'm about to remove my old clutch and flywheel to replace with a new Mantic 9000 clutch kit.
Im a little concerned about all this balancing... does someone have any experience with doing this job the right way??
Before you remove ANYTHING,,,, Mark the OEM flywheel to crank orientation and the pressure plate to the flywheel orientation.
Make a NEW reference mark on the new flywheel. Temp install it on the crank and make a mark in the same place that the OEM one was marked!!
Take the OEM pressure plate/flywheel (assembled without the disk) to the machine shop and have them OFF SET BALANCE the new flywheel/pressure plate to MATCH the balance to the old flywheel / pressure plate .
NOTE!! It will NOT be zero balanced. It will MATCH the balance to the factory precision HOT BALANCE that was done to remove any NVH.
Make sure that they take into consideration the reference mark on the new flywheel so that you can put it back on the reference mark on the crank.
Then you should NOT have any vibrations.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Curlee; 04-24-2018 at 06:07 PM.
Before you remove ANYTHING,,,, Mark the OEM flywheel to crank orientation and the pressure plate to the flywheel orientation.
Make a NEW reference mark on the new flywheel. Temp install it on the crank and make a mark in the same place that the OEM one was marked!!
Take the OEM pressure plate/flywheel (assembled without the disk) to the machine shop and have them OFF SET BALANCE the new flywheel/pressure plate to MATCH the balance to the old flywheel / pressure plate .
NOTE!! It will NOT be zero balanced. It will MATCH the balance to the factory precision HOT BALANCE that was done to remove any NVH.
Make sure that they take into consideration the reference mark on the new flywheel so that you can put it back on the reference mark on the crank.
Then you should NOT have any vibrations.
Bill
Damn!!!!!!!
I was impatient and didnt wait for a response as i did this 30 mims ago. I did mark the flywheel to pressure plate.
I made the mark at 6 ocklock will put the flywheel back and see where the bolt holes line up to relation to the 6 ocklock position...
Also, on my flywheel their are two dowels that the pressure plate sit on.. is that normal?
A clutch is a clutch. You have a factory external balance. If you want to keep it, you have to get the new cutch to be the same weight in the same location as the old OEM flywheel and mount it back on the crank in the same orientation.
All most ALL aftermarket rotating assemblies are ZERO balanced when they are made. In OUR C5 CASE, that does NOT do you any good.
There are RARE OCASSIONS when zero balance will work on some C5s but its rare.
Now, im not sure i remember correctly where the flywheel was mounted on the crank.
I noticed my flywheel has a hole in it between two of the bolt holes. Their is also a blind hole in the crank, also, between two of the taped bolt holes.
Is it possible these were lined up before i removed the flywheel?
Blind hole in crank
Hole in flywheel. You can see the hole of the crank threw the hole in the flywheel(this picture is when i remounted the flywheel to try and figure out how it was before i removed it)
Have them spin up your old flywheel and see how ZERO BALANCED it ISNT!!!!
The C5,C6 and C7 all have torque tube connected manual transmission drive trains and in the manual cars there is felt additional drivetrain harshness that people complain about. That is why they go through the extra process of HOT BALANCE!
Bill i will bring my stock clutch assembly to have its balance checked.
Even Doug @ECS says the mantic clutch can be installed as is.
Now, if my clutch is not zero balanced, will the machine shop have to remove or add material?
LOL!! Like I stated " Most all aftermarket rotating assemblies are ZERO BALANCED from the manufacture." Sure, That Mantic Clutch can be installed as is.
ZERO BALANCED is NOT important if your car needs weight in a specific location on the flywheel to prevent NVH. Does your flywheel have any additional balance pins in the outer ring holes?????????
Some people install clutches without any worry about vibration. God Knows ECS does hundreds of clutches. I have seen several people on here that had SEVERE vibrations after a simple clutch install. Then again, some have NO ISSUES. Roll the dice and see what you get.
If it wasn't an issue, Im POSITIVE GM wouldn't spend the extra time and $$$ to do the HOT BALANCE PROCEDURE to every manual transmission engine that they assemble.
On another note,, If you can not find the exact flywheel to crank alignment as it was installed from the factory, It wont make any difference if you get the hot balance or not. Just install the new clutch and see what you get.
I went the extra mile and had mine off set balanced. I can spin the engine to 7000 RPM and not feel anything out of the norm. I get NO harshness in the 1800 - 3000 RPM Zone where most of the vibrations are felt when there is a vibration issue. Its really not going to hurt anything other than your pride and nerves.
YES,, The machine shop will spin up your OLD Flywheel and note the out of ZERO balance grams and where,
Then they will spin up the new flywheel and note that balance. They need to remove material from the new flywheel to MATCH the out of ZERO Balance of your OLD flywheel. Then your new flywheel will be the SAME out of balance as the OEM flywheel.
NOTE!!!!!! IF YOU ARE NOT SURE OF THE POSITION where the old flywheel came off the crank, FORGET ABOUT THE BALANCE THING!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL!! Like I stated " Most all aftermarket rotating assemblies are ZERO BALANCED from the manufacture." Sure, That Mantic Clutch can be installed as is.
ZERO BALANCED is NOT important if your car needs weight in a specific location on the flywheel to prevent NVH. Does your flywheel have any additional balance pins in the outer ring holes?????????
Some people install clutches without any worry about vibration. God Knows ECS does hundreds of clutches. I have seen several people on here that had SEVERE vibrations after a simple clutch install. Then again, some have NO ISSUES. Roll the dice and see what you get.
If it wasn't an issue, Im POSITIVE GM wouldn't spend the extra time and $$$ to do the HOT BALANCE PROCEDURE to every manual transmission engine that they assemble.
On another note,, If you can not find the exact flywheel to crank alignment as it was installed from the factory, It wont make any difference if you get the hot balance or not. Just install the new clutch and see what you get.
I went the extra mile and had mine off set balanced. I can spin the engine to 7000 RPM and not feel anything out of the norm. I get NO harshness in the 1800 - 3000 RPM Zone where most of the vibrations are felt when there is a vibration issue. Its really not going to hurt anything other than your pride and nerves.
YES,, The machine shop will spin up your OLD Flywheel and note the out of ZERO balance grams and where,
Then they will spin up the new flywheel and note that balance. They need to remove material from the new flywheel to MATCH the out of ZERO Balance of your OLD flywheel. Then your new flywheel will be the SAME out of balance as the OEM flywheel.
NOTE!!!!!! IF YOU ARE NOT SURE OF THE POSITION where the old flywheel came off the crank, FORGET ABOUT THE BALANCE THING!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill
Bill look at post 49. Im am almost 100% sure that's where the flywheel was before removing...
Also, i dont have any weights in the flywheel.
Bill, do I take both sets of clutches assembled without friction discs?? I don't know if assembling the twin disc mantic will work without the friction discs and plates...
Match balancing it is a good precaution to ensure there will be no vibrations.
People have had vibrations and started threads, but I have never seen a vibration thread where the replacement flywheel and clutch assembly was confirmed to be as close as possible to zero balanced with the vibration still existing. I've never seen it confirmed the clutch wasn't out of balance itself enough to cause the vibration. Just saying.
I have a question. If your engine is balanced and blueprinted, would you just go with the 0 balanced clutch assembly and not match balance to the old, assuming they put in a new clutch with the rebuild. I would think if the original clutch were reused it would unbalance the engine or cause vibration.
I have a question. If your engine is balanced and blueprinted, would you just go with the 0 balanced clutch assembly and not match balance to the old, assuming they put in a new clutch with the rebuild. I would think if the original clutch were reused it would unbalance the engine or cause vibration.
central to your question is how the engine is balanced....internally or externally.
if the reciprocating assembly is balanced (internally balanced) then everything you hang off of it needs to be zero balanced also.
YES!! You would have to because I doubt if the engine builder did a HOT BALANCE . When the engine is balanced, ONLY the rotating assy (crank with piston bob weights) is balanced.
That would be a excellent case to male sure that anything that you attach to the engine is ZERO BALANCED.
Because the master gets filled with clutch dust over time, and its the right thing to do, when doing a job of this magnitude. same as the slave... Like I said, there is only one right way to do a clutch job on a C5... the other reason.. you do a half assed job, after 10 years and 60,000/80,000 miles
the extra hundred dollars for the master will save the contamination it would do to a new slave.. and if your next argument is why change the slave.,.. then the answer is spend 800 dollars in labor to do the clutch, and then 6 months from now you have to spend another 800 dollars to put in a new slave.
You are certainly entitle to your questions, but your logic is not in your best interest.. you want to do the job right by changing to new hydraulics when you replace the clutch pressure plate and flywheel.. then its a complete repair not a bandade.
Of course you can just reach up there and put in a clutch disc.. its your car.. but you will learn a valuable lesson.
I have a 2006 and just had a lsx441 stroker put in with a spec 3 clutch and billit flywheel and the torque tube is making a noise that wasn't there before the install of motor and clutch?
10-28-2016, 11:02 AM
