No Running Lights or Dash Lights & Headlights Won't Pop Up - Help Needed
05-31-2015, 08:39 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
No Running Lights or Dash Lights & Headlights Won't Pop Up - Help Needed
About 3 weeks ago while I was on the road for work I developed some problems with my lights.
First night everything came on great but the right headlight did not pop up. The headlight was on, just wouldn't come up on it's own. When I got to the hotel I cranked it up manually and it went down when I turned the headlights off. I cycled the lights 3 or 4 times and everything worked great. Figured the motor must have just been on a dead spot.
Next night everything worked great when I left the hotel, but, when I got to the restaurant both headlights stayed up when I shut the lights off. When leaving the restaurant to head back to the hotel the headlights came on but I had no dash lights. I got out to check the other lights and none of the running lights were on, including the front and rear lights. Blinkers all worked. Brake lights worked and the backup lights worked. Drove back to the hotel with the flashers on.
The next day the front blinker light had stopped working. I replaced the LED bulb that had stopped working with an old halogen bulb and that fixed that problem. Since then I've done no driving after dark.
I've removed and checked all the fuses in both of the panels....twice.
Checked for BCM codes and found that I had 0502, 0507 and 2482. I entered those codes into the search function in the C5 Tech Forum and got a couple of results that said Relay #38 under the hood can be part of the problem if you have those codes. I saw that the relay for the backup lights was the same relay, and the backup lights were working, so, I put the backup light relay into slot 38. No difference. Still no running lights or dash lights. Took the relay that was originally in slot 38 and put it where I got the backup light relay from and the backup lights worked fine.
When I use the key fob to unlock the doors the DRLs and the backup lights light up as usual, but, no light from the taillights or the side running lights. The dash lights light up when the fob is pressed also, but, go off when I turn on the key. The DRLs work during daylight driving.
Following the instructions on a couple of other Forum threads and I removed my blinker multifunction stalk and disassembled it. It looked great inside, but, per the instructions in the threads I cleaned the contacts and bent them a little to increase the tension on the contacts when they're closed. Lubed up the moving parts, put it all back together and re-installed the stalk. As soon as I re-connected the negative battery lead both headlights popped up, but, would not go down again when I cycled the multifunction switch and none of the other lights had improved.
Cranked the headlights back down, took the stalk out again and went through everything again to see if I missed something. Got it all back together and installed, connected the negative cable and the lights popped up again.
Tried out a spare headlight control module that I keep in the garage and that was no help.
Decided to try a new blinker stalk. Ordered one and installed it last week and no difference at all. No better, no worse.
I'm pretty much stumped now and can't seem to find any further info on the Forum to try.
I'm hoping that someone out there may have had a similar problem and may have some suggestions, or, one of the Forum Guru's may be able to suggest some things that I may try next.
The car is my daily driver so I'm really eager to get it fixed!
Thanks for any help......
First night everything came on great but the right headlight did not pop up. The headlight was on, just wouldn't come up on it's own. When I got to the hotel I cranked it up manually and it went down when I turned the headlights off. I cycled the lights 3 or 4 times and everything worked great. Figured the motor must have just been on a dead spot.
Next night everything worked great when I left the hotel, but, when I got to the restaurant both headlights stayed up when I shut the lights off. When leaving the restaurant to head back to the hotel the headlights came on but I had no dash lights. I got out to check the other lights and none of the running lights were on, including the front and rear lights. Blinkers all worked. Brake lights worked and the backup lights worked. Drove back to the hotel with the flashers on.
The next day the front blinker light had stopped working. I replaced the LED bulb that had stopped working with an old halogen bulb and that fixed that problem. Since then I've done no driving after dark.
I've removed and checked all the fuses in both of the panels....twice.
Checked for BCM codes and found that I had 0502, 0507 and 2482. I entered those codes into the search function in the C5 Tech Forum and got a couple of results that said Relay #38 under the hood can be part of the problem if you have those codes. I saw that the relay for the backup lights was the same relay, and the backup lights were working, so, I put the backup light relay into slot 38. No difference. Still no running lights or dash lights. Took the relay that was originally in slot 38 and put it where I got the backup light relay from and the backup lights worked fine.
When I use the key fob to unlock the doors the DRLs and the backup lights light up as usual, but, no light from the taillights or the side running lights. The dash lights light up when the fob is pressed also, but, go off when I turn on the key. The DRLs work during daylight driving.
Following the instructions on a couple of other Forum threads and I removed my blinker multifunction stalk and disassembled it. It looked great inside, but, per the instructions in the threads I cleaned the contacts and bent them a little to increase the tension on the contacts when they're closed. Lubed up the moving parts, put it all back together and re-installed the stalk. As soon as I re-connected the negative battery lead both headlights popped up, but, would not go down again when I cycled the multifunction switch and none of the other lights had improved.
Cranked the headlights back down, took the stalk out again and went through everything again to see if I missed something. Got it all back together and installed, connected the negative cable and the lights popped up again.
Tried out a spare headlight control module that I keep in the garage and that was no help.
Decided to try a new blinker stalk. Ordered one and installed it last week and no difference at all. No better, no worse.
I'm pretty much stumped now and can't seem to find any further info on the Forum to try.
I'm hoping that someone out there may have had a similar problem and may have some suggestions, or, one of the Forum Guru's may be able to suggest some things that I may try next.
The car is my daily driver so I'm really eager to get it fixed!
Thanks for any help......
Last edited by Zmeister; 05-31-2015 at 08:42 PM.
05-31-2015, 09:17 PM
#2
Team Owner
Wow, if I didn't know better I'd say you borrowed my car. 
My first thought would be a short in a harness somewhere, but not having any fuses blown sorta goes against that. A lot of weird things can happen with a ground that's bad, that's something to check. There's a number of locations for ground plugs on the car. My only experience with lights popping up unwanted or not moving as they should was when battery voltage was really low. That sort of goes with the ground idea where insufficient ground would cause the lights to think the volts were low (ground is raised). But I'm guessing there.
That's a crazy problem you've got there. Good luck.
My first thought would be a short in a harness somewhere, but not having any fuses blown sorta goes against that. A lot of weird things can happen with a ground that's bad, that's something to check. There's a number of locations for ground plugs on the car. My only experience with lights popping up unwanted or not moving as they should was when battery voltage was really low. That sort of goes with the ground idea where insufficient ground would cause the lights to think the volts were low (ground is raised). But I'm guessing there.
That's a crazy problem you've got there. Good luck.
05-31-2015, 10:48 PM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks K-Spaz. I do need to check all the grounds. That's an item that's been on my to-do list since I got the car 5 years ago. It certainly can cause a lot of problems. Will probably start on that next weekend. It's been a long process trying to sort this out!!
Just hoping it's not the BCM.
Not sure how to tell if that is bad or not.
Just hoping it's not the BCM.
Not sure how to tell if that is bad or not.
05-31-2015, 11:14 PM
#4
Team Owner
I can't help on the bcm. I would guess (and that's all it is) that since so many modules communicate in this car, a bcm that was faulty would do self diagnostics and throw codes accordingly. I would keep an eye on what codes you get, and be sure to include the H/C/U/whatever along with the numbers when posting them here.
Do you have a service manual? Keep in mind that for most items, they have flowcharts for tracking down electrical issues. I bought mine the day after I got my car, and it's been well worth it.
Do you have a service manual? Keep in mind that for most items, they have flowcharts for tracking down electrical issues. I bought mine the day after I got my car, and it's been well worth it.
06-01-2015, 08:02 AM
#5
Le Mans Master
OK, so apparently you do not have OEM lighting as an indication of putting in a halogen bulb for an LED.
We need to know exactly what non stock lights have been added to start any diagnostics.
We need to know exactly what non stock lights have been added to start any diagnostics.
06-01-2015, 11:00 AM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
dadaroo, thanks for taking the time to look at this thread. You were one of a handful of folks that I was hoping would be able to chime in.
I had intended to include more detail about my LED lights, but, forgot. Thanks for the nudge on that.
So, I've installed one of the Triton brand 2-prong LED flashers by cutting the pink and purple wires under the driver's side of the dash per instructions that I got from a few Forum threads. Unfortunately the flasher that I have will not handle full LED bulb replacement so I have to leave one halogen bulb in place on each side of the car. I've elected to leave the inner taillight bulb on each side as a halogen bulb. I've also installed LED backup lights. The DRLs and the outer taillight bulbs are the same LEDs that come in one of Radioflyer's LED kits. This setup has been installed since last October with no problems until 3 weeks ago when my running light and headlight issue began. I don't know if they're related, but, I figured I should mention it just in case.
Also, looking at the fuse block diagrams I see that there are some 'circuit breakers' that I did not check and one of them is labeled as being for the headlamps. The circuit breakers are the same size as the maxifuses, but, have a silver metal enclosure. Not sure how to check those. I thought those just reset themselves after they cool down. I need to do some research on those.
Thanks again.
I had intended to include more detail about my LED lights, but, forgot. Thanks for the nudge on that.
So, I've installed one of the Triton brand 2-prong LED flashers by cutting the pink and purple wires under the driver's side of the dash per instructions that I got from a few Forum threads. Unfortunately the flasher that I have will not handle full LED bulb replacement so I have to leave one halogen bulb in place on each side of the car. I've elected to leave the inner taillight bulb on each side as a halogen bulb. I've also installed LED backup lights. The DRLs and the outer taillight bulbs are the same LEDs that come in one of Radioflyer's LED kits. This setup has been installed since last October with no problems until 3 weeks ago when my running light and headlight issue began. I don't know if they're related, but, I figured I should mention it just in case.
Also, looking at the fuse block diagrams I see that there are some 'circuit breakers' that I did not check and one of them is labeled as being for the headlamps. The circuit breakers are the same size as the maxifuses, but, have a silver metal enclosure. Not sure how to check those. I thought those just reset themselves after they cool down. I need to do some research on those.
Thanks again.
Last edited by Zmeister; 06-01-2015 at 11:10 AM.
06-01-2015, 07:26 PM
#7
Drifting
Thread Starter
OK, tried a couple of things after work today.....
I checked the circuit breaker in slot 54 of the fuse block in the passenger footwell. Seems to have no resistance, perfect continuity. Not sure if there is more to testing these or not. If anyone has any experience with these please let me know. Never had a car with circuit breakers before.
I also shuffled around the relays in that fuse block. Moved just about all of them from items that were working to items that were related to the lights and headlamps. None of the moves seemed to make any difference.
Had to take a break due to thunderstorms. I'm browsing the web looking for more stuff to try tomorrow.
I checked the circuit breaker in slot 54 of the fuse block in the passenger footwell. Seems to have no resistance, perfect continuity. Not sure if there is more to testing these or not. If anyone has any experience with these please let me know. Never had a car with circuit breakers before.
I also shuffled around the relays in that fuse block. Moved just about all of them from items that were working to items that were related to the lights and headlamps. None of the moves seemed to make any difference.
Had to take a break due to thunderstorms. I'm browsing the web looking for more stuff to try tomorrow.
06-02-2015, 07:32 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
I am going to send you a PM with my number so we can discuss. One thing I am gong to want to know is if you installed any resistors in the circuits of the LEDs.
The BCM takes action on original design voltage inputs and changes.
One thing we may need to do is to slowly start by replacing the LEDs with OEM incandescent bulbs to see if things improve. It did with one change out you did but maybe it was bad. You could test it.
With regard to the circuit breaker it should have continuity like a fuse until it opens so it should be good.
Very likely you have more than one issue here. Have you checked your grounds yet?
You should only be concerned with those affecting the problem circuits. Here is a list to start with. Not my list so I don't know if it is correct but I can validate for your issues later.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...locations.html
If it were me I would start by replacing LEDs with OEM bulbs before chasing grounds all over the car.
Mr. Sam
The BCM takes action on original design voltage inputs and changes.
One thing we may need to do is to slowly start by replacing the LEDs with OEM incandescent bulbs to see if things improve. It did with one change out you did but maybe it was bad. You could test it.
With regard to the circuit breaker it should have continuity like a fuse until it opens so it should be good.
Very likely you have more than one issue here. Have you checked your grounds yet?
You should only be concerned with those affecting the problem circuits. Here is a list to start with. Not my list so I don't know if it is correct but I can validate for your issues later.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...locations.html
If it were me I would start by replacing LEDs with OEM bulbs before chasing grounds all over the car.
Mr. Sam
06-02-2015, 07:48 AM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
dadaroo....I have not added any resistors to the blinker system. Really wanted to avoid that and that's why I still have the one halogen bulb on each side of the taillights. I bought the proper flasher that will not hyperflash with all LED bulbs installed, but, haven't gotten around to installing it yet.
I still have all of the original halogen bulbs in the garage so I can swap them back in to see if that may be the problem.
I have not checked any of the grounds yet. That has been on my list of things to do for a couple of years now, but...........
I'll get started checking those after trying the halogen bulb replacement.
I think you're correct on me having more that one issue. It doesn't seem like there is any direct link between the headlights popping up and the running lights working.
The one thing I keep focusing on is the fact that any bulbs that have dual filaments, or, dual brightness function the bright function works and the dim function does not, ie, the blinker, flasher and brake lights all function properly because they use the bright filament in the bulbs. Also, the DRLs work for daytime operation, but, go off when I turn on the parking or headlight switch since that switches the bulbs to the dim filament. The side running lights that only have one filament don't work. I keep looking for where those two functions, bright and dim, are separated somehow in the wiring breakdown and I just can't seem to figure it out.
I still have all of the original halogen bulbs in the garage so I can swap them back in to see if that may be the problem.
I have not checked any of the grounds yet. That has been on my list of things to do for a couple of years now, but...........
I'll get started checking those after trying the halogen bulb replacement.
I think you're correct on me having more that one issue. It doesn't seem like there is any direct link between the headlights popping up and the running lights working.
The one thing I keep focusing on is the fact that any bulbs that have dual filaments, or, dual brightness function the bright function works and the dim function does not, ie, the blinker, flasher and brake lights all function properly because they use the bright filament in the bulbs. Also, the DRLs work for daytime operation, but, go off when I turn on the parking or headlight switch since that switches the bulbs to the dim filament. The side running lights that only have one filament don't work. I keep looking for where those two functions, bright and dim, are separated somehow in the wiring breakdown and I just can't seem to figure it out.
06-02-2015, 10:56 PM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
radioflyer, thanks for joining in!!!
I've inserted the information below....
Don't have your hyperflash harness. Bought one of the Tridon electronic flashers and inserted by cutting the pink and purple lights under the dash. Got the wrong flasher and it wouldn't work with all LED bulbs. Ended up having to leave in one of the incandescent taillight bulbs on each side for now to make it all work. Been working fine since October until my problems popped up about 3 weeks ago. I now have the proper flasher for all LED bulbs, but, won't install it until I get my problems sorted out.
Based on some input from dadaroo, I've started putting all the incandescent bulbs back in to see if that makes any difference. Got the DRLs done this afternoon, but, then the rain set in so never got to the taillights. Changing just the DRLs didn't make any difference.
That's where I stand today. Hope to get the taillights changed tomorrow and see if that helps any.
I've inserted the information below....
Based on some input from dadaroo, I've started putting all the incandescent bulbs back in to see if that makes any difference. Got the DRLs done this afternoon, but, then the rain set in so never got to the taillights. Changing just the DRLs didn't make any difference.
That's where I stand today. Hope to get the taillights changed tomorrow and see if that helps any.
Last edited by Zmeister; 06-02-2015 at 11:08 PM.
06-03-2015, 08:47 AM
#12
Supporting Vendor
radioflyer, thanks for joining in!!!
I've inserted the information below....
Don't have your hyperflash harness. Bought one of the Tridon electronic flashers and inserted by cutting the pink and purple lights under the dash. Got the wrong flasher and it wouldn't work with all LED bulbs. Ended up having to leave in one of the incandescent taillight bulbs on each side for now to make it all work. Been working fine since October until my problems popped up about 3 weeks ago. I now have the proper flasher for all LED bulbs, but, won't install it until I get my problems sorted out.
Based on some input from dadaroo, I've started putting all the incandescent bulbs back in to see if that makes any difference. Got the DRLs done this afternoon, but, then the rain set in so never got to the taillights. Changing just the DRLs didn't make any difference.
That's where I stand today. Hope to get the taillights changed tomorrow and see if that helps any.
I've inserted the information below....
Don't have your hyperflash harness. Bought one of the Tridon electronic flashers and inserted by cutting the pink and purple lights under the dash. Got the wrong flasher and it wouldn't work with all LED bulbs. Ended up having to leave in one of the incandescent taillight bulbs on each side for now to make it all work. Been working fine since October until my problems popped up about 3 weeks ago. I now have the proper flasher for all LED bulbs, but, won't install it until I get my problems sorted out.
Based on some input from dadaroo, I've started putting all the incandescent bulbs back in to see if that makes any difference. Got the DRLs done this afternoon, but, then the rain set in so never got to the taillights. Changing just the DRLs didn't make any difference.
That's where I stand today. Hope to get the taillights changed tomorrow and see if that helps any.
06-03-2015, 09:15 AM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
The electronic flasher that I have now hyperflashes if I don't have one incandescent bulb in each circuit. One incandescent bulb in any location on each side of the car makes the hyperflash go away. The new electronic flasher that I haven't installed yet is the appropriate one to handle all LEDs in all locations. That's where I hope to end up eventually. I really love the brightness and purity of the LED light. Way more visible in fog than the stock bulbs. I also like the much lower heat since it doesn't burn up my DRL housings!!
Thanks!!!
06-04-2015, 07:59 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
Trust me the flasher has nothing to do with your Side Marker, Park, and Running lights. They are different circuits.
If Fuse 6 and Relay 43 are good then we need to check out the following.
If you now have all incandescent lights on those circuits I just described then we need to ground the circuits at the BCM and see if they work. Either the MF input is not getting to the BCM so it knows to ground the circuit or once getting the input it is not grounding it.
Another way to test the circuit would be to jumper Relay 43 switch contacts. That should light them up if the MF switch was in the Park or Headlights position.
Either way it would rule in our out some wiring related issue.
Larry, we can discuss on the phone this morning. Call when it is convenient.
If Fuse 6 and Relay 43 are good then we need to check out the following.
If you now have all incandescent lights on those circuits I just described then we need to ground the circuits at the BCM and see if they work. Either the MF input is not getting to the BCM so it knows to ground the circuit or once getting the input it is not grounding it.
Another way to test the circuit would be to jumper Relay 43 switch contacts. That should light them up if the MF switch was in the Park or Headlights position.
Either way it would rule in our out some wiring related issue.
Larry, we can discuss on the phone this morning. Call when it is convenient.
06-04-2015, 09:45 AM
#15
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks Sam!!
If the weather will cooperate a little bit I hope to get those items done this afternoon or evening!!
Will report back with results.
If the weather will cooperate a little bit I hope to get those items done this afternoon or evening!!
Will report back with results.