grasshopper645

Can someone please explain to my why this is not possible.

Surely with enough work, it could be achieved.

Fastbird

This is something I'm pondering myself. I'm hoping to find fsm scans somewhere of the 01 setup for wiring and what not so I can compare to my 99 fsm schematics as a starting point. There's probably an interaction with another module along the way that nixes the entire idea though I'd surmise.

grasshopper645

Yeah that's my thinking. Even if you have to re wire everything in the car, it would be beneficial to me because I cannot pass safety inspection with abs warning on so I can't legally drive the car. Cheers.

mrr23

there has been talk of this before. you also have to change the SWPS steering wheel position sensor. it has three wires instead of four. maybe go so far as changing the BCM and PCM to 2001-up.

tandt

And will the later one even mate to the old pump? I'm guessing you would have to use a lot of the later model electronics to make it work since the algorithm to do the TC/AH most likely changed through the years too.

tandt

No way to get an exemption because the part is no longer produced?

lionelhutz

The C5's are all the same chassis so it is possible if you want to do the work or spend the money on it. The pump has to change too, they are physically different. I have checked and the wiring to both modules is almost exactly the same. I believe the older module just had an extra wire to the SWPS for the analog signal that the newer module doesn't have. There might have been a pressure switch difference too though.

People have swapped both PCM's and BCM's between newer and older cars and say they work so I wouldn't expect any issue there. Worst case you need a newer BCM too to properly control the EBCM over the serial link. I can't see the older PCM having any issue since the TC control is via a direct PWM connection and not over serial which is the same since C4/4th Gen F-body days. The only other module the EBCM communicates with is the cluster to display messages and it seems all clusters are compatible over all years so that shouldn't be an issue.

tandt

If a guy/gal doesn't do all the work themselves this swap could easily get into the several thousand dollar range. Look at one of the threads where someone swapped in a later model ECM, pretty labor intensive.

lionelhutz

Yup, it would probably run $3k to $4k at a shop. With early C5's selling in the $10k range it's a rather pricy update compared to just trading the car for a later C5.

Steve Doten has posted he would do the swap but has had no takers as far as I know.

The ECM is a simple swap compared to this. Not only does the wiring have to be swapped-over but the brake lines have to be changed too.

dadaroo

I can post any schematics or connector views anyone needs but unless you are willing to really tackle plumbing in the newer EBCM please hold off on the requests.

If I had this issue with an older C5 I would consider removing the ABS bulb for inspection. Not sure if during the inspection the DIC would pop up a message that there was an issue. Might want to test this out if you know the inspection process before you go to the effort to remove the bulb. maybe reset message before the inspection begins?

You can also disable the DIC message board by unplugging the motherboard it is on, Not hard to do and I have that at home. I would assume they would be looking for a light and not a display message. Afterwards you could just plug the board back in. However, I am sure it would disable the gauges. I just have no idea what the inspection is looking for.

Last resort, not sure if something like HP Tuners can turn off the ABS so it is no longer active.

That's about all I can add to this conversation.

Personally, I would try to just get around the EBCM swap for inspection since I don't really care for ABS and can live without TC and AH. The C5 is the only car I have that has it and it is not the most high performance car I have.


Mr. Sam

mrr23

Hptuners doesn't deal with bcm modifications. I asked about removing the abs option through the bcm so the lights would be off and got accosted for it. Got called a scammer if i ever sold the car. So don't expect any help in that area around here. They'll just tell you to buy the part and fix it the right way.

Everytime you turn the key on the dic shows abs and traction control messages. There is a place that makes a module to automatically simulate pushing the reset button to clear messages. A simple box that you set how many times to hit reset. He posted on here about it.

lionelhutz

How I understand it is that the EBTCM and the cluster communicate with each other to display the messages. But, even if the BCM is responsible for the messages there isn't any way to adjust BCM programming besides the settings for the RPOs and there is no RPO for no TC/AH/ABS.

Fastbird

Plumbing in new lines isn't a big deal. That's easy stuff. Modifying your existing harness or swapping harnesses, that's a big deal. I think it may be doable but still want to look at some schematics.

lionelhutz

I have already compared the schematics wire for wire. The only difference between wiring on the 99 and 01 EBCM is the SWPS on the 99 has an analog signal which doesn't exist on the 01. Other than that, there are the same power, same fuses, same grounds, same sensors and the same wire colors to the sensors, etc, etc. You can swap the plug to the newer module by leaving out the extra SWPS wire and you've electrically replaced the EBCM.

You can spend time looking at schematics if you want but there is nothing new to learn here. This is just re-hashing the same story on the forum again. It's all just theory until someone actually attempts to do it.

mrr23

Are the actual connectors to the ebtcm the same between the two? Seems too easy for anyone not to have tried this yet? If all there is to do is swap ebcm with pump and swps then leave the analog wire dangling, then fab up some brake lines hell I'd give it a whirl.

lionelhutz

No, the connectors are not the same. It appears most of the wiring uses the same pins as a PCM so you should be able to easily re-pin them into the newer connector. I'm not sure how easy the power and ground are to swap in the connector though.

mrr23

Nevermind that was too easy to find out what they looked like. Wire for wire might be the same, but there is a whole lot of rewiring to do to make it work.

2000 m and v code
2001 ebcm

Fastbird

Repinning actually goes rather quick once you get the hang of it. In out, in out. Sourcing the connectors may be a little troublesome unless you have access to a donor car than you can cut them from.

From what I'm seeing, repin connectors, drop analog signal from SWPS, plumb new brake lines, and it *should* work.

Fastbird

Here's another what if for the earlier cars though. What if the early car has the combination valve that sits under the master cylinder? How does that interface with everything?

Bill Curlee

I know the newer EBTCM uses a BPMV mounted pressure transducer. The earlier C5 use a pressure differential valve under the master cylinder. I'm at work and off the top of my head, I cant remember what all electrical all connects to that valve.

You will need to be good at making new brake lines as the new and old BPMV lines are SIGNIFICANTLY different routing wise.

If you are doing a 97- early 98, with a rear mounted EBTCM/BPMV, that could be a very difficult undertaking.. MASSIVE brake line rerouting!

I would be more concerned about brake line running than wiring! LOL!


2001+ EBTCM & BPMV









2001+ EBTCM Connector (Harness Side)









1997 - 98 Early C5 Rear Mounted EBTCM/BPMV