When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I tried to reinstall my stock LS1 today after rebuilding it and failed. I was able to get the motor on to the input shaft splines and able to get the engine/clutch all the way to where it touches the throwout bearing on the slave cylinder.
I could get the engine guides to touch the holes on the bell housing but I was not able to get the motor to slide into the bell housing guides for me to get some bolts torqued down.
For reference before installing the motor I pulled the bell housing off and mounted it to the engine to ensure oil pan alignment. I also tested my new pilot bushing on the input shaft and verified it fit on to it. Was using an engine level. I triple checked to make sure nothing was in the way. I put a dab of engine assembly lube on the input shaft. I had trepidation about raising the torque tube and or engine too much when the shaft was connected for fear of breaking the shaft.
Is there some jedi mind trick I was missing? Any tools I could buy to simplify the process. This is my first time installing a motor, spent 4 hours today and know when to ask for help. Hoping the veterans will chime in with some advice for success. Thanks guys.
I tried putting the torque tube to differential onto the engine as an assembly and I just could not get the input shaft to go into the pilot bearing. So, I separated the torque tube and installed it first.
But, you probably can't easily do that but then maybe you could? Hang the engine down at the back and get the torque tube bolted to it and then line-up the transmission while pushing the engine and tube assembly back to the transmission.
I'm thinking the easier solution you could try is loosening the pressure plate bolts until the clutch disk can move around and then see if you have any better luck getting the input shaft to go into the pilot bearing.
I agree. This aren't on the same plane. I assume you used a alignment shaft to make sure the clutch was lined up with the flywheel correctly before you bolted the pressure plate down?
You may want to disconnect the torque tube from the tranny and try to connect it up to the motor. You'll need a friend to help guide the tube into the tranny as you line up the engine.
I thought installing the ENTIRE drivetrain into the engine was TOUGH... Installing the engine on the drive train is TOUGHER!
I'm with Lionel.. I would drop the drive train and get the engine in and on the mounts. Then install the TT and then install the TRANS/DIFF onto the TT.
I you cant easily slide an input shaft into the clutch/pilot,,, That engine is NEVER going to go together.
Did you replace the Pilot Bearing. If not, make SURE that the needle bearings do not fall out or down into the bearing. I would put some grease into that pilot to keep the bearing in place if your reusing an used one.
I tried putting the torque tube to differential onto the engine as an assembly and I just could not get the input shaft to go into the pilot bearing. So, I separated the torque tube and installed it first.
But, you probably can't easily do that but then maybe you could? Hang the engine down at the back and get the torque tube bolted to it and then line-up the transmission while pushing the engine and tube assembly back to the transmission.
I'm thinking the easier solution you could try is loosening the pressure plate bolts until the clutch disk can move around and then see if you have any better luck getting the input shaft to go into the pilot bearing.
Originally Posted by Jumper11
You may want to disconnect the torque tube from the tranny and try to connect it up to the motor. You'll need a friend to help guide the tube into the tranny as you line up the engine.
I will have to take a look, the exhaust is out along with the tunnel plate. Perhaps if I had a transmission jack it would be as simple as unbolting the TT from Rear Diff. and sliding it forward the 1/2" or so I need into the pilot bearing while a friend pushes the engine forward against the TT?
I haven't done a thing with the rear end or really even looked at it on this car so forgive me if I'm speaking in complete ignorance and am omitting some obvious large steps.
Originally Posted by SaberD
sounds like the input shaft isn't going into the pilot bearing. keep on wiggling it around to try and get it in at the right angle.
I might give this one more shot, would it hurt anything or do me any could to turn the crank bolt while jiggling the engine around trying to get the pilot bushing to seat?
Originally Posted by CaseyJones
I agree. This aren't on the same plane. I assume you used a alignment shaft to make sure the clutch was lined up with the flywheel correctly before you bolted the pressure plate down?
I did scribe the flywheel and clutch in addition to checking alignment with a crappy plastic tool. I was for sure able to get the input shaft up until the pilot bearing. but couldn't get it seat. I also make sure the bleeder valve was open on the remote bleeder going into a water bottle to ensure I wasn't working against hydraulic pressure of the slave. I can push the throwout bearing in with my hand and a little bit of elbow grease.
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
I thought installing the ENTIRE drivetrain into the engine was TOUGH... Installing the engine on the drive train is TOUGHER!
I'm with Lionel.. I would drop the drive train and get the engine in and on the mounts. Then install the TT and then install the TRANS/DIFF onto the TT.
I you cant easily slide an input shaft into the clutch/pilot,,, That engine is NEVER going to go together.
Did you replace the Pilot Bearing. If not, make SURE that the needle bearings do not fall out or down into the bearing. I would put some grease into that pilot to keep the bearing in place if your reusing an used one.
It sounds like this approach will be my best bet. I did replace the pilot bearing with a brass pilot bushing. I made the decision to go with the brass bushing because I only put 2-3k of miles on my car a year and had fear about trashing the input shaft if I got this alignment wrong or if/when the bearing ever failed. At this point I'm feeling pretty good about this decision.
Sucks to be so close yet so far away.
Thanks guys if there is any specific instructions on how I should align the TT with the engine after disconnecting to the rear end or tips on measuring alignment of TT to the Diff I should do before disconnected it would be much appreciated.
I did the entire drive train removal & reinstall on jack stands on my back in the garage. BY MY SELF! So,, I know that its possible.
On that note, I found the easiest method to do both.
Remove the rear cradle.
Remove the differential & Transmission as an assembly from the TT.
Remove the TT from the Bell housing. I had to remove the bell housing as I installed a SPEC Duel Disk Clutch. Good thing I did. My Bell housing was CRACKED!
Install the clutch. I always check the critical slave cyl measurement anytime I install a NEW CLUTCH.
The TICK website has all the information on how to measure. If you install an OEM clutch, this process should be unnecessary. But, like they say, Measure TWICE, take it apart ONCE!
I have it from a VERY knowledgeable TRANS/DIFFERENTIAL Specialist that the solid bronze or Kevlar pilot bearing is not conducive to our application. Just Saying! He recommends against using it.
You need to find an alignment input shaft for the clutch. When its installed and aligned properly, it will slide IN & OUT effortlessly! Without proper alignment, getting the TT in is a chore. When its properly aligned, it will slide in effortlessly.
I used a motorcycle hydraulic lift to lift and install the differential / Trans onto the TT.
First try loosing all the pressure plate bolts and see if it will go together once the clutch disk can move around.
I have to agree with Mr Lionlhutz,, I did it this way to many times to count.. also ounce it is in,, turn the motor over several times (by hand) and this will line up all the components at the same time..Then tighten her down ...done
mike v
I did the entire drive train removal & reinstall on jack stands on my back in the garage. BY MY SELF! So,, I know that its possible.
On that note, I found the easiest method to do both.
Remove the rear cradle.
Remove the differential & Transmission as an assembly from the TT.
Remove the TT from the Bell housing. I had to remove the bell housing as I installed a SPEC Duel Disk Clutch. Good thing I did. My Bell housing was CRACKED!
Install the clutch. I always check the critical slave cyl measurement anytime I install a NEW CLUTCH.
The TICK website has all the information on how to measure. If you install an OEM clutch, this process should be unnecessary. But, like they say, Measure TWICE, take it apart ONCE!
I have it from a VERY knowledgeable TRANS/DIFFERENTIAL Specialist that the solid bronze or Kevlar pilot bearing is not conducive to our application. Just Saying! He recommends against using it.
You need to find an alignment input shaft for the clutch. When its installed and aligned properly, it will slide IN & OUT effortlessly! Without proper alignment, getting the TT in is a chore. When its properly aligned, it will slide in effortlessly.
I used a motorcycle hydraulic lift to lift and install the differential / Trans onto the TT.
I read of a lot of members on here and LS1Tech running the bronze bearing and several stories of pilot bearings grenading trashing the input shaft. I could still easily throw in a pilot bearing if need be in lieu of this hickup would just need to go rent a blind hole pulley from autozone again. What is the technical reason I should stay away from the bronze bushing, creates more heat, wears faster?
Any reason I couldn't loosen the bolts to the Diff/Trans by a 1/4". Loosen the bolts from the TT to bellhousing by a 1/4" and use the slop to move the TT forward to allow me to thread the bolts through to get them started? Then torque them all down in incremental sequences?
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
First try loosing all the pressure plate bolts and see if it will go together once the clutch disk can move around.
I will give this a shot as well and then potentially torque them all down by spinning the fly wheel. I scribed my flywheel and clutch assembly to keep track of how things were previously lined up so I could technically keep track even if I did this approach. There was no shim installed previously, the clutch only has 14k on it I believe. I installed a new slave with remote bleeder.
Any other ideas or reasons why what I may try might be risky? Given I had no plans on dropping the rear cradle, I haven't researched it and am a little gun shy about the gotchas and specific tools I would need to purchase to complete the job.
The engine rebuild project has been quite the expensive project after discovering that the block was cracked from what appears to be an over torqued from a head stud or incorrectly cleaned out stud hole. In lieu of that I had to purchase a new block.
If money and time was of no object I would be game to jump right in but that is far from the case at the moment. Found out I'm going to be a dad during this build in addition to wrapping up my last class of grad school and working like there's no tomorrow. The clock is running on how much more time I will have to spend on this project till it will go on hiatus. The hope was having the car back together by the end of the year. Also hoping there is a medium worth trying that allows me to balance time and money with getting the motor back in. Perhaps that is wishful thinking. Thanks again guys for the help.
I'm with Lionel.. I would drop the drive train and get the engine in and on the mounts. Then install the TT and then install the TRANS/DIFF onto the TT.
I did not notice your recommendation on doing this. I currently have the front cradle dropped on low jack stands, you would recommend I put the engine on the mounts.
Then reattach the front cradle to mounting points or leave freely?
Then drop rear cradle with trans/diff attached?
Disconnect TT from trans/diff?
Roll forward TT into engine?
Then roll trans diff into TT?
I'm assuming it's easier to slide the trans/diff into rear of TT than the TT into pilot bearing?
Can you explain why it's easier?
Are there any specialty tools I would need?
Sorry for 20 questions. Thought it would be easier to comprehend if I split each question out on its own.
Last edited by tommypenguin; 11-09-2015 at 05:44 PM.
This isn't hard at all. I didn't read through this whole thread as Im at work. But getting the motor in normally takes me about 20 minutes with a lift and no leveler.
The cradle needs to still be off the car. Tq tube needs to be supported by a jackstand or whatever you have that will keep it off the Tunnel plate. Or you can use a jack to hold it up.
Drop the engine in and slide it onto the tq tube adjusting height, and angle of the motor (your adjusting angle with your hands) and then slide it on. Tighten all bell housing bolts now as you can get to them all easily and move the motor around enough still while its on the lift.
Now take the Cradle and install it under the motor. The motor will still be hanging at this point so its a little tricky You don't need to remove the Tq tube or anything. If you have the cradle under the car while you are trying to install the motor it wont be easy.
No need to remove more stuff. This was has always worked easily for me and Ive never had an Issue. Also you have to make sure your clutch disc is lined up properly.
Last edited by Johnny wangwang; 11-10-2015 at 10:53 AM.
Also when I drop the motor in there are no heads or anything on it. It gets dropped in as a short block. Makes everything easier. Then I add the accessories after its in and sitting on the cradle.
And you don't need to remove the tunnel plate or any of that either. All that stays in place Unless you had to remove it to install something. The Tq tube should be around about level with where it sits with the engine in the car when you mate it to the engine.
It may take a minute to get it on the spline while adjusting height and angle a few times. But itll go. Sounds like you had it once already. Why didn't you bolt it down then?
Last edited by Johnny wangwang; 11-10-2015 at 11:06 AM.
This isn't hard at all. I didn't read through this whole thread as Im at work. But getting the motor in normally takes me about 20 minutes with a lift and no leveler.
The cradle needs to still be off the car. Tq tube needs to be supported by a jackstand or whatever you have that will keep it off the Tunnel plate. Or you can use a jack to hold it up.
Drop the engine in and slide it onto the tq tube adjusting height, and angle of the motor (your adjusting angle with your hands) and then slide it on. Tighten all bell housing bolts now as you can get to them all easily and move the motor around enough still while its on the lift.
Now take the Cradle and install it under the motor. The motor will still be hanging at this point so its a little tricky You don't need to remove the Tq tube or anything. If you have the cradle under the car while you are trying to install the motor it wont be easy.
No need to remove more stuff. This was has always worked easily for me and Ive never had an Issue. Also you have to make sure your clutch disc is lined up properly.
I AGREE! All that is great if,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the clutch plate is properly aligned. Some people just CAN NOT seem to be able to achieve that alignment.
But the clutch disk has to be aligned Properly using the alignment tool (Universal or the one that came with the kit if your lucky) or youll run into this problem even if the motor and Tq tube are on the ground. The bolts holes for the bell housing would be to far off to bolt anything up I Imagine without first somehow being able to push the pressure plate in to get the clutch aligned.
The cradle needs to still be off the car. Tq tube needs to be supported by a jackstand or whatever you have that will keep it off the Tunnel plate. Or you can use a jack to hold it up.
Drop the engine in and slide it onto the tq tube adjusting height, and angle of the motor (your adjusting angle with your hands) and then slide it on. Tighten all bell housing bolts now as you can get to them all easily and move the motor around enough still while its on the lift.
Now take the Cradle and install it under the motor. The motor will still be hanging at this point so its a little tricky You don't need to remove the Tq tube or anything. If you have the cradle under the car while you are trying to install the motor it wont be easy.
No need to remove more stuff. This was has always worked easily for me and Ive never had an Issue. Also you have to make sure your clutch disc is lined up properly.
I wish I could get it in, in 20 minutes.
To add more information I do have the heads and dampener on the car but no other accessories. The front cradle is still lowered. I did remove the tunnel plate, don't remember why. I had a jack under the TT with a 2x4 on it. I also had a floor jack under the oil pan with a hockey puck on it. I had the engine supported with a leveler/hoist. Total of 4 variables in the equation for controlling the alignment.
Unfortunately when we put on the leveler, given the angle we had the hoist going in from the passenger side, the chain was binding just a little, twisting away from the driver side. So we had to combat that while trying to line up, requiring more effort than we would have needed had the chain not been binding. This is why I put a floor jack under the oil pan to help hold the engine in place and minimize the binding working against us pushing the motor toward the TT.
Originally Posted by Johnny wangwang
It may take a minute to get it on the spline while adjusting height and angle a few times. But itll go. Sounds like you had it once already. Why didn't you bolt it down then?
I couldn't get the bolts to reach the engine. The guides on the engine block where they are beveled were touching the inside of the holes on the bellhousing but we couldn't get it in.
We had only gotten to that point for about an hour before having to throw in the towel. I had committed to an activity with my wife I couldn't get out of. I also couldn't leave the engine and TT being supported by a jack and hoist. So I pulled it off, threw in the towel and am posting here. As stated I wasn't sure how fragile the shaft is from raising or lifting the engine on it and shaking it around, sounds like it is more durable than I have given it credit for.
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
I AGREE! All that is great if,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the clutch plate is properly aligned. Some people just CAN NOT seem to be able to achieve that alignment.
Originally Posted by Johnny wangwang
But the clutch disk has to be aligned Properly using the alignment tool (Universal or the one that came with the kit if your lucky) or youll run into this problem even if the motor and Tq tube are on the ground. The bolts holes for the bell housing would be to far off to bolt anything up I Imagine without first somehow being able to push the pressure plate in to get the clutch aligned.
I used the plastic alignment tool, it slides in fairly easy, I can post a video if it would help illustrate if it looks like all is lined up. I had looked for a broken input shaft on ebay for weeks and couldn't find one. I am reusing my existing clutch as it has low miles and was fine for my power level.
It sounds like my best bet without investing a significant more risk/labor of dropping the rear, I would be best loosening the clutch bolts and give this another go. Then continue to raise and lower the engine and jiggle the engine around on the shaft. It also sounds like I should simplify how many variables are involved and ditch the leveler, and potentially the floor jack under the oil pan and just use the host and jack under the TT?
Thanks again guys, this has been the first failure I've encountered along the journey of removing and rebuilding my motor, have been a little discouraged. Given I don't have the confidence without having a second set of hands to help to attempt, it's hard to schedule my bro to come down and dedicate a full day to help me out. Johnny have you been able to install the motor by yourself or do you need help?
Last edited by tommypenguin; 11-10-2015 at 12:13 PM.
Yeah swap the stock Pilot back in. Also remove the jack from under the motor. Prob not letting it get to the angle it needs to be at. You want the motor to be able to swing as freely as possible.
11-08-2015, 11:23 PM
Help me get my motor back in my car.
