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So I recently replaced my torque tube and tranny, and I was looking to put a ls3 in the car, but unfortunately don't have the funds for that quite yet. So, I'm looking to just mod what I have.
Plain fact that the LS6 is better factory. I have a bone stock 97 vette with 806 heads. I found a local guy that upgraded his 01 Z06 and is selling the 243 heads and the LS6 cam. So here's the question:
Is it worth it to swap a stock ls1 with used ls6 parts?
Background:
-(my car) LS1 153,000 miles, t56, daily driver
-(parts) off a 01 z06, 142,000 miles, t56 car, guy upgraded when rebuilding motor
If I were to buy these, I would not blindly install them and hope for the best. I would take these to a machine shop to have them inspected prior to installing.
The 243 heads I already know are a go. Plenty of people suggest them. Is it worth it to have them ported if the car is just a daily driver? I'm looking for a ls6 intake to purchase as well. If I install these heads, will I need to retune the car?
As for the cam, there's a lot of labor involved. Now, I know a lot of people will say that the ls6 cam isn't worth it for the amount of labor involved to swap said cam. However, my worry is if I buy a more aggressive cam, that the motor won't last due to it having 153k on the clock. Am I worrying too much? If I swap to the ls6 cam, will I need to have the car retuned? If I swap to a bigger cam, will I need to have the car retuned? I don't need to swap the cam. Just happen to come across a good deal.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C5 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
the heads I would do but skip the cam... as you already stated it isn't worth all the labor for the minor bump in power not to mention the 02-04z cam is better than the 01 anyway... I would go with a mild to medium sized cam and with those heads, ls6 intake, longtubes, air intake, and tune could easily get you over the 400rwhp mark... porting the heads is not a bad thing but may not be worth the added cost unless you plan to squeeze the most power out of them as you can and with a mild sized cam would not be taking the full benefit of the extra air they can flow, so if you don't plan to get into the mid-upper 400's then skip the head porting in my opinion... you will need a tune regardless if you decide to do the heads, cam, or both
Ok, well I will probably wait then. I will have to do more research into what cam I want. Or if I even should cam it. With the car at 153k, would ya'll recommend camming it? Or is that risking it? I take care of the car, amsoil oil every 3k, wix xp filter every 3k, air filters every 10k, etc. Just don't want to cam it if it's not gonna last.
Back to the heads, how much does a typical head job cost? What should I have done? The heads have blue springs in them, not sure if that matters. Would ya'll upgrade springs at this time? What head gasket should I use? Is it worth it to get ARP Head studs? Or should I just get stock head bolts?
It cost me $400.00 to have my LS1 heads done at the machine shop. That was a valve job and surface the heads as well as replacing valve stem seals. They also checked heads for cracks and valves, guides for wear.
I also bought new stock valve springs and they installed when doing the heads.
I used stock head gaskets and stock head bolts. My LS1 had 150,000 miles on it at the time.
It cost me $400.00 to have my LS1 heads done at the machine shop. That was a valve job and surface the heads as well as replacing valve stem seals. They also checked heads for cracks and valves, guides for wear.
I also bought new stock valve springs and they installed when doing the heads.
I used stock head gaskets and stock head bolts. My LS1 had 150,000 miles on it at the time.
When you say stock head gaskets, you mean like new oem head gaskets and bolts correct? Or did you reuse your gasket and bolts?
I'm looking at possibly a cam package, as I'm still learning about cams and all the technical aspects of them and such.
Honestly I wouldn't even bother with the cam at all if you're just going to pull the motor soon enough to replace it anyways. If the heads are cheap, go ahead and get them. You can always pull them off and resell them when you pull your LS1 anyways.
If you're going to do a cam, I don't think you'll have any issues with the engine as long as you stay mild to mid sized.
I would suggest that changing your AmsOil at 3,000 miles is a bit of overkill. If you're tracking the car regularly, maybe, but anything else, 5 - 10k is good. I do change the filter and top it off at 5k on my daily drivers however.
AmsOil is great oil and I use it in some of my vehicles. But any full synthetic should be good for at least 5k.
Then again, it's only money and peace of mind. You certainly won't hurt anything, but maybe offer it up to a neighbor that's a bit frugal on oil changes...
Personally, given the mileage on your motor, I would do a compression test first to make sure your motor is still healthy. If compression is low, then you're wasting money on heads and cam.
Again, personally, I wouldn't put in a used cam, or at least not one with 100k+ miles. And while the LS6 cam was pretty good, there's certainly better available.
And keep in mind, as mentioned above, you'll spend $250-$400 at the machine shop having the used heads rebuilt. For $750 Texas Speed with rebuild the heads and CNC port them. Or for $1200 you can just buy the ported 243 heads from them already rebuilt, that way you don't have to mess with finding used heads and hope nothing is wrong with them. They'll also mill them for free (if you want to bump compression), and set up your valve springs. (valve springs themselves are extra).
Then it's a slippery slope with the "might-as-well" items while you have it apart. Given your mileage, you should really replace your lifters and probably pushrods. It's also the right time to replace the timing chain and oil pump.
Do you have long tube heads and a better exhaust?
You'll have to get it retuned regardless.
I'm not as familiar with the early LS motors. What's the limit on the stock rod bolts?
And don't forget your clutch. The stock clutch probably isn't going to be happy with your new found horsepower.
Last edited by bigmackloud; 10-02-2017 at 02:15 PM.
Personally, given the mileage on your motor, I would do a compression test first to make sure your motor is still healthy. If compression is low, then you're wasting money on heads and cam.
Again, personally, I wouldn't put in a used cam, or at least not one with 100k+ miles. And while the LS6 cam was pretty good, there's certainly better available.
And keep in mind, as mentioned above, you'll spend $250-$400 at the machine shop having the used heads rebuilt. For $750 Texas Speed with rebuild the heads and CNC port them. Or for $1200 you can just buy the ported 243 heads from them already rebuilt, that way you don't have to mess with finding used heads and hope nothing is wrong with them. They'll also mill them for free (if you want to bump compression), and set up your valve springs. (valve springs themselves are extra).
Then it's a slippery slope with the "might-as-well" items while you have it apart. Given your mileage, you should really replace your lifters and probably pushrods. It's also the right time to replace the timing chain and oil pump.
Do you have long tube heads and a better exhaust?
You'll have to get it retuned regardless.
I'm not as familiar with the early LS motors. What's the limit on the stock rod bolts?
And don't forget your clutch. The stock clutch probably isn't going to be happy with your new found horsepower.
Right, and I'm kinda regretting buying the heads now. The motor runs good, has decent power, but like most, I'm greedy. I've determined that after everything, I'll be close to 3k for everything. Which is $300 short from a ls3 I was looking at.
I didn't realize that I would have to get a tune, which in itself will take a while. I thought you could put the 243 heads on with the ls6 manifold and it would run fine. Not sure why I thought that, but that was my understanding. However, being my only vehicle, I can't afford the downtime from install to tune. Plus the trailer to a dyno, etc. So I'm just gonna sell the heads and drive it like it is. Might just pick up that ls3 and wait till I have time in 10 months or so. Anyone wanna buy some 243 heads!?
1. Your CAM bearings are going to be heavily worn. Just a fact of LS Life.
2. REPLACE THE LIFTER BUCKETS!!!!!!!
3. You MUST replace the head bolts each time you do a head job as they are a Torque to Yield (one time use bolt). I only use ARP Head Studs when ever I do a LS engine head removal and re-install
4. New Springs and Seals are a MUST! (If you don't do seals, you will regret it later! If you don't do springs, one will break and you know what happens then!
5. If you go with new / used performance parts, you may find you will RUN OUT IF INJECTOR (duty cycle over 80%) and need to get bigger injectors.
NOTE! Bigger (higher flow rate) injectors MUST be tuned into the PCM. MANDITORY!!!!
6. LS-6 Cam and 243 heads require different pushrods length than the standard LS-1
7. You will need a new LS2 timing chain as you will find out that yours is SHOT!!!!!! The oil pump MUST come off so, its a good idea to install a new high pressure oil pump.
8. The LS engine dampener is a KNOWN HIGH FAILURE RATE PART. Replace the old OEM dampener with a quality aftermarket dampener (like DAYCO/Powerbond )
9. You must replace the front cover damper seal and that requires a special cover alignment tool.
10. The early LS engine rockers are known to fail and puke out the small roller bearing inside the rocker. Up grade to late model rockers or purchase and install an aftermarket trunion up-grade kit.
11. NOTE/WARNING!! The LS engine head bolts thread into BLIND HOLES IN THE BLOCK!
IF,,,,,,,,, there is ANY LIQUID inside the blind bolt holes, torqueing in the head bolts will cause the Block to FRACTURE!!!
MAKE absofriggenlootly sure that each bolt hole is clean and completely DRY!DO NOT use a standard TAP to clean out the bolt holes. You MUST use a cleaning tap that will NOT remove any material from the block! Do NOT thing spraying compressed air into the hole will blow out the liquid/dirt! IT WILL NOT!
The 243 heads and ls6 intake will run... but it will need to be tuned to run right.
Also realize that you'll be into the LS3 for more than $3k by the time you finally get it in. I don't know how many miles it has on it, but again, there are certain maintenance parts you should replace while you have it out.
There's no such thing as cheap hp. You know the expression... fast, reliable, cheap... pick any two.
Right, which is why I'm hesitant to do anything. I found a l92 on craigslist, and the guy says that the motor oil pressure would periodically drop 20 psi, then raise back up and be fine. So he changed the oil and all was well for about 2 weeks and same thing. Motor has roughly 110k on it. He's asking 2k for a core long block. complete heads, complete block, no accessories, no intake manifold. He replaced that with a factory GM motor. He said he would take 1,700, so I know he'll take 1,500 cash in hand. Cash talks. Then I would obviously have to convert it from a l92 to ls3 and have it ready to go to swap into my car. I won't be able to swap it for another 9 months due to school, which gives me time to slowly rebuild it. I recently put my ls1 on craigslist for 2k as a feeler post and I had at least 10 people call ready to buy with cash. So my motor will sell for at least 2k. So that recovers some money. What do ya'll think?
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C5 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
if you get that l92 for $1500 you could have the bottom end freshened up and have them put a 24x reluctor on the crank that way you don't have to buy a conversion box and it makes the swap simpler in my opinion... and if you don't have the budget at the moment for the ls3 intake and other odds and ends up top you theoretically could use the 243's you just bought and an ls6 intake for now... granted it won't be optimal but it will get you up and running and give you time to save money for all the other things you need to have a complete ls3/l92... all of your accessories will fit that motor so no worries there... how much power are you really wanting to make though?... my z made 420rwhp with longtubes, intake, cam, and tune, bone stock non-ported heads... my point is that if you aren't trying to make a lot of power then the extra expense of going the l92/ls3 route may not be worth it... you have lots of options, it just depends what suits you best
So, heres what I'm thinking. The ls1 is a great motor. However, its a little dated. LS3 is new and improved, and almost all parts swapover. If I were to rebuild my motor, I would spend around 3k to have a stock healthy motor again that isnt as strong as the LS3 and can't hold the power. Vs if I buy a good stock foundation, I can build on it over time. I don't currently have headers due to CA emissions. I just purchased a stock air intake off ebay so I can resmog it. So until I can move back to CO, I'm stuck with a stock exhaust. Which limits camshaft potential, intake potential, etc.
Is that L92 worth that? Would ya'll pay $1,500 for essentially a core motor? He said there was a drop in psi and a noise. Which makes me think lifters as I believe they were known to fail. I'm going to look over it before buying it tomorrow, compression check it, pull the pan, check bearings, etc.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C5 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
Originally Posted by Scholioso
If I were to rebuild my motor, I would spend around 3k to have a stock healthy motor again that isnt as strong as the LS3 and can't hold the power. Vs if I buy a good stock foundation, I can build on it over time.
can't hold how much power??... you never stated your end goal, the ls1 is pretty stout and can take more than you may think... I tossed around the idea of an ls3 myself at one time but after laying out the extra cost and all the new things I would have to buy vs the power I want it just wasn't worth it to me because I can just as easily make that same power on a 5.7 or even a 5.3 and for a whole lot less money
I looked into turning my 5.7l into a 383. Which is essentially a ls3. Cuz to me, if I'm buying new pistons, rods, cam, etc, for a couple hundred more, I can have a 383. But, from what I read online, the block doesn't have much lining left once you do that. I would feel a lot safer having a block thats already a 383. The rectangular ports flow better on the heads and intake. Its a relatively simple swap. My accessories will bolt on. Sensors get relocated. Since the new motor is a l92, I'll have to buy a cam anyways so cam lifters pushrods, etc, easyish way to get close to 500hp. I would not try to get my motor to 500hp as is. I would want it rebuilt for reliability reasons. I appreciate any and all advice. If I'm wrong or misinformed, someone please tell me as I'm still learning. Thank you!
Today I went and checked out that L92. pulled the valve covers off, found one rocker arm(for #4 cylinder exhaust valve) "loose" or with play, able to rock about 1/2" between on the spring and on the pushrod. So now I'm thinking collapsed lifter. Pull the rocker arm off, still good, pushrod good. We then pulled the oil pan. Completely clean, nothing in it. All the bearings look good, no metal shavings in the pan. We then pulled the head to inspect that lifter, and sure as ****, lifter was collapsed. The spring on the end was smashed down unlike the others that were extended out. Now I'm unaware exactly how the vvt works on these motors. So here's the questions I have for you fine folks.
Would a collapsed exhaust lifter cause the motor oil to drop 20psi?
With a collapsed exhaust lifter, on the exhaust stroke, where would all that exhaust compression go? It's being repressurized as it's essentially a 2nd compression stroke. Are these lifters fail proof to where if they collapse they still open the valve a tiny bit? The lifter roller that meets the camshaft, was not smooth. rather rough. In fact, all other lifters were smooth, but this one. Which makes me think the cam may be hurt too.
The exhaust valve itself has "crystalized" per lack of terms. In the pics attached, you can see the 2nd to the top exhaust valve almost looks like it has salt on it. What would cause this? It doesn't just flake off or fall off when touched. Might come off with a wire brush, didn't try though, didn't want to damage anything.
What would ya'll pay for a motor like this? He is asking $2,000. Said he would take $1,700. He's had lots of calls, no one has actually come down to see it besides me. And he said I was the first to actually ask about the issue stated. He works on BMW's mainly and is not too familiar with ls motors. I'm thinking like $1,000 for the motor. But let me know what ya'll think.
I appreciate all info and thank you guys!
Last edited by Scholioso; 10-04-2017 at 12:52 AM.
Reason: Add pics
09-29-2017, 11:22 PM
Motor Mods: Base LS1 to Z06 LS6, worth it?
