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Completely puzzled. 2004 z06 not starting but only after filling up

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Completely puzzled. 2004 z06 not starting but only after filling up

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Old 02-10-2018, 03:09 PM
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soroZ
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Default Completely puzzled. 2004 z06 not starting but only after filling up

I have dealt with a few issues over the years in my vette but this one has to take the cake. Last night it finally got me, having not driven the vette in a long time I took it for a drive and after driving it for the 2nd day decided it was time to fill it up. I pulled up to get gas filled her up, got back in the car but it just wouldn't start. Not turning over, no clicking sound, nothing. I sat there and kept trying, opening the gas tank, locking and unlocking the door, turning steering wheel, but finally gave up after about 25-30 minutes. Left the car behind thinking I would come back in a few hours and have it towed. I returned after about 3 hours to the gas station, turned the key and it started on the first turn.

I am very puzzled and I really have no idea why the vehicle would even have this issue, it starts and drives just fine up until the moment you put gas in it. Under normal circumstances it starts on the first turn. I just put a new battery in it as well. This issue has happened before within the last year, but not every time and typically it would start after maybe sitting there and trying 5-10 minutes max. I really want to just fix the problem so I don't have this constant worry every time I go for a fill up. I have had this happen a few times couple years back even when I was not filling it up , but those were isolated incidents and would typically start after a few tries, and I havent had those lately.

I did a bit of a search but couldn't find anything specific on the forums. My best guess would be something regarding the fuel system, or maybe the ecu, fuel wiring. It just seems so strange that it only happens when you put gas in it and automatically goes away after some time and the vehicle then starts just fine. I did put a new starter in the vehicle about 4 years ago too, and it does have some light mods, kooks headers, mgw shifter, vararm intake, etc. Any help is much appreciated, i'm not sure if anybody else has ever had this issue and I know the 2004 models have a bit of a different fuel setup. I will try to post the codes sometime Sunday or Monday when I get a chance.
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:43 PM
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The fuel system on these 04 can be a bitch for sure .. Had my tanks 5-times don't ask . right when it won't crank .. The first thing you want to check is ,do I have fuel pressure .. If you have fuel pressure then the pumps are telling the PCM its OK to start . The arm on the drivers side pump has to go up as you put gas in the tank then it tells the other side pump what is going on and the pass. side pumps kicks in and pumps gas over to the other side and levels the gas from one side to the other .. and tells the PCM its ok to start and run .First thing is to make sure the pumps are working right and sending the right signals out. The first thing that happens is the key switch ,when you turn it ,the switch sends power the fuel pump and it is pumping but it checks with the PCM to make sure it all ready to crank ,it gets its info from the pumps if the pumps are not working right no fuel pressure and no crank .. When you turn the switch you should be abele to here the pumps ,turn switch BAM power goes to pumps builds pressure 49 LBS in line and is ready to crank ,if the pump does not come on first to start looking is why not .I thinking the driver side pump may be going out ,that's why need to check pressure .. 04 fuel problems are not easy but can be fixed .. Its kinda like Ok 1 then 2 then 3 and on and on . It a fuel fail safe system it works in stages just have to follow the stages .. Sorry that's all I know ..
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:37 PM
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Default Wonít start

I have no idea of why the engine wonít crank over at that time but I do have a question for the people that might know.
Is it possible for the egr system to have a parcel leak, clog, connection, to cause the computer to get an incorrect reading and stop the starting process maybe based on a safety feature directive.
I donít know, but can hope this makes someones light come on that can help.
Good luck will be watching.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:10 PM
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The engine NOT cranking at all on a HOT ReStart would lead me to believe something
in the electrical system.. Bad starter, melted/corroded positive or negative ground cables, melted wiring to the starter, etc..
NOT cranking at all would have nothing to do with fuel... It is the HOT Restart that
is giving you problems... Even an ignition switch could be an issue.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:08 PM
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radar502
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Originally Posted by willig72 View Post
I have no idea of why the engine wonít crank over at that time but I do have a question for the people that might know.
Is it possible for the egr system to have a parcel leak, clog, connection, to cause the computer to get an incorrect reading and stop the starting process maybe based on a safety feature directive.
I donít know, but can hope this makes someones light come on that can help.
Good luck will be watching.
Sorry I was thinking it would turn over just not start .. Spark ,gas .air one or the other not working right .. I do kinda know how the fuel set up is on the 04 -- A big PITA for sure ..
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:22 PM
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Headers and a hot start issue, my guess fried wiring or bad solenoid at the starter
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:39 PM
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Should have just push started it

Like others have said, it doesn't have anything to do with filling with fuel. The way you make it sound, its happened before, but at the same time the story only indicates it happening once.

If it were me I would check the connections around the starter, I have seen some loose connections there cause issues with hot starts.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:41 PM
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Thank you Radar. This does make a good bit of sense it has to be something in the fuel system, I do believe the previous owner mentioned to me that he had some fuel system issue which was fixed by a recall. I will pull the codes tomorrow when I get a chance and will post them, but if it is anything with the fuel system then I'm sure it's not going to be a cheap fix. Hopefully it is electrical.

Originally Posted by radar502 View Post
The fuel system on these 04 can be a bitch for sure .. Had my tanks 5-times don't ask . right when it won't crank .. The first thing you want to check is ,do I have fuel pressure .. If you have fuel pressure then the pumps are telling the PCM its OK to start . The arm on the drivers side pump has to go up as you put gas in the tank then it tells the other side pump what is going on and the pass. side pumps kicks in and pumps gas over to the other side and levels the gas from one side to the other .. and tells the PCM its ok to start and run .First thing is to make sure the pumps are working right and sending the right signals out. The first thing that happens is the key switch ,when you turn it ,the switch sends power the fuel pump and it is pumping but it checks with the PCM to make sure it all ready to crank ,it gets its info from the pumps if the pumps are not working right no fuel pressure and no crank .. When you turn the switch you should be abele to here the pumps ,turn switch BAM power goes to pumps builds pressure 49 LBS in line and is ready to crank ,if the pump does not come on first to start looking is why not .I thinking the driver side pump may be going out ,that's why need to check pressure .. 04 fuel problems are not easy but can be fixed .. Its kinda like Ok 1 then 2 then 3 and on and on . It a fuel fail safe system it works in stages just have to follow the stages .. Sorry that's all I know ..
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:50 PM
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Guys maybe I did not make it clear. This has never happened during a normal start, unless I put gas in it at the gas station, the car drives and starts normal no issues whatsoever. The only time it won't start is right after putting gas in the tank. There is only one isolated incident maybe about 1.5-2 years ago that I can think of when it wouldn't start even though I had not just put gas in it and at that time the problem went away less than 5 minutes. But this is not the first time it wouldn't start after putting in gas but previously it would get going in worst case 10 minutes after putting gas. And the car does not crank it just wouldn't even turn over nothing.
The most puzzling part is why it only happens when I put gas and not when starting the car normally, and why does the problem go away on it's own after leaving the car for a bit.

Radar seems like he's got the best idea, I'm guessing it has something to the with some sort of fail safe system in the ecu, or the tanks are not leveling out correctly. I hope it is something more simple, but I will post the codes tomorrow and maybe that will give me a better idea. I figured someone may have had a previous experience with this.

Everyone's help is appreciated.
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:33 PM
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NO CRANK Condition would generally have nothing to do with fuel system..
IT"S a HOT Restart that you are describing..
Can you drive the car for an hour, stop, turn it off for 2-5 minutes and then it
cranks normally ????????
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by foggy View Post
NO CRANK Condition would generally have nothing to do with fuel system..
IT"S a HOT Restart that you are describing..
Can you drive the car for an hour, stop, turn it off for 2-5 minutes and then it
cranks normally ????????
I've cranked my engine with the fuel system completely removed from the car..

There is ZERO fuel system to STARTER/CRANK System interface.

First: When it will not CRANK, are there ANY DTCs being displayed?

It sounds like you are experiencing a BAD SOLENOID issue. Don't know why it only acts up when you fuel.

Until you actually measure the voltages around the Theft Deterrent Relay, you are wasting time and money trying to fix it.

Figure out where the starter /solenoid lives on the passengers side of the engine and see if you can get a wood dowel or an insulated metal rod and whack the starter /solenoid when it fails to crank.

You will need to have someone depress the clutch, HOLD the ignition switch to START/CRANK while you thump it. If the solenoid is the issue, it should come to life with a good THUMP!

QUESTION: When it will not crank, If you pump the clutch peddle on and off the clutch safety switch, do you or can you hear the THEFT DETERRENT RELAY in the passengers foot well click ON and OFF each time you make and break the switch??????????????????

Bill
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:27 PM
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My car had a couple of no starts after driving to the store. I'm pretty sure it was a loose battery cable. I installed new bolts on the ends of the battery cables and haven't had the problem since....... fingers crossed.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by soroZ View Post
I have dealt with a few issues over the years in my vette but this one has to take the cake. Last night it finally got me, having not driven the vette in a long time I took it for a drive and after driving it for the 2nd day decided it was time to fill it up. I pulled up to get gas filled her up, got back in the car but it just wouldn't start. Not turning over, no clicking sound, nothing. I sat there and kept trying, opening the gas tank, locking and unlocking the door, turning steering wheel, but finally gave up after about 25-30 minutes. Left the car behind thinking I would come back in a few hours and have it towed. I returned after about 3 hours to the gas station, turned the key and it started on the first turn.

I am very puzzled and I really have no idea why the vehicle would even have this issue, it starts and drives just fine up until the moment you put gas in it. Under normal circumstances it starts on the first turn. I just put a new battery in it as well. This issue has happened before within the last year, but not every time and typically it would start after maybe sitting there and trying 5-10 minutes max. I really want to just fix the problem so I don't have this constant worry every time I go for a fill up. I have had this happen a few times couple years back even when I was not filling it up , but those were isolated incidents and would typically start after a few tries, and I havent had those lately.

I did a bit of a search but couldn't find anything specific on the forums. My best guess would be something regarding the fuel system, or maybe the ecu, fuel wiring. It just seems so strange that it only happens when you put gas in it and automatically goes away after some time and the vehicle then starts just fine. I did put a new starter in the vehicle about 4 years ago too, and it does have some light mods, kooks headers, mgw shifter, vararm intake, etc. Any help is much appreciated, i'm not sure if anybody else has ever had this issue and I know the 2004 models have a bit of a different fuel setup. I will try to post the codes sometime Sunday or Monday when I get a chance.
Don't shut it off when you get to the gas station. Leave it running, fill it up, take your drive and when you get home, shut it off and see if it starts the next day. That is the first thing I would do. Go from there. Good lick. Save the wave
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:43 PM
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I pulled the codes today they are B2282, B2286,B2284,, U1255, U1064, U1016, U1096, B2283,B2287, B2285, U1255, U1064, U1016, U1096, B0851

Keep in mind the car did just get a new battery so some of it may have to do with that.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by foggy View Post
NO CRANK Condition would generally have nothing to do with fuel system..
IT"S a HOT Restart that you are describing..
Can you drive the car for an hour, stop, turn it off for 2-5 minutes and then it
cranks normally ????????
The more I think about it the more I think that I never really hot restart the car, except when I put gas the minimum time would be maybe 30 minutes. My newest guess is the starter/or the wires get real hot especially with the headers making it not want to restart until it cools down. I did replace the starter maybe around 5-6 years ago though. Hopefully the codes give us a better idea. I did start it again today, starts just fine on the first turn as long as it is cold and I'm not putting in gas.
I'm going to look at the wires when I get a chance and drive it around some and bring it back to see if it will do a hot restart even though I am not putting in any gas. I will keep everyone posted, either way I really want to put this issue to bed so I can start enjoying the vette again.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:10 PM
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So I drove the car again yesterday. Started just fine, drove fine once I pulled into work, turned it off waited a few seconds maybe 15 seconds, turned the key and started right up. But on the way back I said let me try it a little different, went home, turned off the car, waited about 2-3 minutes, tried to start the car again, nothing, it wouldn't even crank just like before, even though I had not put gas in it. So I guess that solves the main mystery that it is not the fuel system. Still seems a bit weird why it will start after a few seconds, but not after a few minutes of turning the car off. I do always hear a dripping sound hitting something metallic once I turn off the car, but I'm sure that's the a/c more that anything dripping onto the starter. Looks like I'm going to need a new starter on the car, but I will probably try to heat shield this one so it doesn't get affected like the last starter by the heat from the headers. I will keep everyone posted as things update.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:48 PM
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You have NOT physically checked the connections on the starter solenoid yet have you????????????

Thats the FIRST place to start!

They MUST be clean and tight and the wires and the fuse links need to be in good condition.

Bill

Last edited by Bill Curlee; 02-16-2018 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 02-17-2018, 07:01 AM
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Hope Bill's hit upon it. Was going to say fill the tank half full and make sure it's nothing to do with that, but sounds like it's not. Please post what it was when you fix it, I'm thinking about headers and want to know if it's related to them cooking something.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by soroZ View Post
Guys maybe I did not make it clear. This has never happened during a normal start, unless I put gas in it at the gas station, the car drives and starts normal no issues whatsoever. The only time it won't start is right after putting gas in the tank. There is only one isolated incident maybe about 1.5-2 years ago that I can think of when it wouldn't start even though I had not just put gas in it and at that time the problem went away less than 5 minutes. But this is not the first time it wouldn't start after putting in gas but previously it would get going in worst case 10 minutes after putting gas. And the car does not crank it just wouldn't even turn over nothing.
The most puzzling part is why it only happens when I put gas and not when starting the car normally, and why does the problem go away on it's own after leaving the car for a bit.

Radar seems like he's got the best idea, I'm guessing it has something to the with some sort of fail safe system in the ecu, or the tanks are not leveling out correctly. I hope it is something more simple, but I will post the codes tomorrow and maybe that will give me a better idea. I figured someone may have had a previous experience with this.

Everyone's help is appreciated.
MY BEST GUESS IS CHECK THE VAPOR RECOVERY SYSTEM. Also the gas cap. If it does not seal properly, the car will not start and run. When fueling, the vapors must go back into the tank for recycle. And 04's have two tanks. If not, things don't work. And when you just drive it normal all is good. Emission Control systems can answer the question, and any good tech with a dyno and diagnostic tool can check. Dealer also.See if any codes have been thrown in your computer.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:54 PM
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Years ago I had a starter that would heat soak from the headers and do the exact same thing. After turning it off and letting it sit a few minutes - nada. Then when it cooled down it would start.

I would also follow Bill's advice without question.

Last edited by Ed Ramberger; 02-18-2018 at 10:54 PM.
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