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C5 Z06... TEA CNC 243 Heads, FAST 92 Intake... What cam?

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C5 Z06... TEA CNC 243 Heads, FAST 92 Intake... What cam?

 
Old 06-04-2018, 12:56 PM
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slow_pokeC5
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Default C5 Z06... TEA CNC 243 Heads, FAST 92 Intake... What cam?

I know a post like this can get wild and crazy so I am going to put this right here in big bold letters.

I AM NOT LOOKING FOR PEAK NUMBERS

Okay, now that that is right up in front of everything here's what's going on.

This coming winter, I plan to tackle H/C/I swap on my C5 Z06. Everything else in the car is finally perfect, so it's time to add power. I am however not chasing peak numbers.

The car is a street driven track day/autocross car so this means for me, mid-range and low end grunt are extremely important.

The plans for the setup are as follows.

TEA CNC Ported Stage 2 243 Castings
FAST 92 Intake Manifold
VMax Ported Throttle Body

The car currently has 1-7/8 Headers, OR-X Pipe and B&B Bullet Exhaust and will soon have a Vararam Air Intake Kit installed.

Power under the curve is most important to me as much as I would love to see a 450whp+ number pop up, I would rather end up at 430whp and 420tq than 450whp and 390tq (as an example).

I would like to see dyno sheets and hear real world experience if you have it.

Some of the cams I am currently considering are as follows...

TSP 228R (228/228 .600/.600 110lsa)
TSP Torquer V2 (232/234 .600/.600 112lsa)
TSP Bald Eagle Cleetus McFarland Camshaft (227/234 .600/.600 111lsa)
Ed Curtis Streetsweeper HT (228/232 .612/.600 111lsa)
Tick Performance SNS TorqueMAX Stage 2 LS6 (227/235 .618/.605 110+3lsa)
Tick Performance SNS TorqueMAX Stage 2 V2 LS2 (231/235 .625/.605 111+2lsa)
Comp Custom Spec (230/234 .615/.605 111lsa)

So aside from the above listed, I am looking for some suggestions and other options to look into or advice on which one might work best with my setup, and why.

Thanks Guys!
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:06 PM
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jumpmanmb87
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BTR stage 3 cam
LS2 TB
FAST 92mm
FAST 36lb Injectors
Halltech Intake

432 wheel c5 z06
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:14 PM
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I did 436rwhp/415 rwtq a decade ago with a Futral (CamMotion) 228/230 112+4 on Tea Stg 2 5.3s, LS6 intake, ported TB, 01+ MAF, Halltech TRAP, Kooks 1 3/4" no cats and 2.5" after the X (velocity helps build torque) and GHLs.

If you are wanting torque, the Cam Motion Titan 4 is close to the old F11. Plenty have also run the BTR Stage 2 with TEA heads with good results. EPS also grinds some torquey cams. I would call the vendors and tell them your head gasket, and chamber size on the heads, and see what they recommend

Last edited by 93Polo; 06-04-2018 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jumpmanmb87 View Post
BTR stage 3 cam
LS2 TB
FAST 92mm
FAST 36lb Injectors
Halltech Intake

432 wheel c5 z06
Torque?
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:27 PM
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This is with a stock head port and stock intake on a C5 Z06. 11 to 1 compression, 1.750 LG headers, Vararam, no cats, VMax throttle body and a factory Ti exhaust.

Cam is a custom grind from EPS 228/236 ....604 lift and 111+1


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Old 06-05-2018, 09:43 PM
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I bet that street sweeper would work good for you. My cam is close to that and I did 453whp and 420wtq SAE years ago through 4.10 gears which probably cost me another 12hp
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:36 PM
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BTR Stage 2 here with Livernois Stage 3 243 heads, LS6 intake and stock TB.

Made 443whp and 370 tq.

I'll be honest, I'm disappointed by the tq number. The car is a beast above 4k RPM, but I'd like more down low. If I could do it all over again, I'd honestly look at a Cam Motion Titan 3.

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Old 06-06-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitPlac View Post
BTR Stage 2 here with Livernois Stage 3 243 heads, LS6 intake and stock TB.

Made 443whp and 370 tq.

I'll be honest, I'm disappointed by the tq number. The car is a beast above 4k RPM, but I'd like more down low. If I could do it all over again, I'd honestly look at a Cam Motion Titan 3.

Which headers are you running? size and brand? I would be disappointed with the torque. I am a big fan of CamMotion but the BTR which I believe is on Comp lobes should not be that much lower. I also do not know much about Livernois heads, a large port size could explain the strong HP # but being down on torque.

Tony Mamo and many others preach, everything works in combination. Header primary size/length, head port sizes, compression, cam timing etc.

Last edited by 93Polo; 06-06-2018 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 93Polo View Post
Which headers are you running? size and brand? I would be disappointed with the torque. I am a big fan of CamMotion but the BTR which I believe is on Comp lobes should not be that much lower. I also do not know much about Livernois heads, a large port size could explain the strong HP # but being down on torque.

Tony Mamo and many others preach, everything works in combination. Header primary size/length, head port sizes, compression, cam timing etc.


Outstanding point. Plan everything together. My example is what happens when you shop bargains and parts on craigslist...

I'm running XSPower 1-3/4" headers. The Livernois Stage 3 heads are ported quite significantly. I only bought them because I got them for a great deal new on craigslist. I'm sure that's a big part of where my max power is coming from.

The car surprised even my tuner with with the max HP number, and it really is insane above 4k RPM. It just isn't exactly what I wanted. I added 4.10 gears to make use of the power up top, so it's quite a beast overall.

I say all this as a word of caution though. I wanted what the OP describes, and ended up with a screamer. Still a ton of fun, but it's critical to plan everything out and know what you're getting...or be in for a surprise like I was.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:49 AM
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Detroit, (im from Detroit btw and a member of Motown Muscle) a few things I have noticed about your combo... 1. the 1 3/4's is too small for the set up.. to gain back some torque my suggestion would be cometic .041 head gaskets for better quelch and Pfadt try Y headers to bring in more torque... a fast 102 would help both numbers as well... did you degree the cam when you put it in?
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Old 06-07-2018, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ASRoff View Post
Detroit, (im from Detroit btw and a member of Motown Muscle) a few things I have noticed about your combo... 1. the 1 3/4's is too small for the set up.. to gain back some torque my suggestion would be cometic .041 head gaskets for better quelch and Pfadt try Y headers to bring in more torque... a fast 102 would help both numbers as well... did you degree the cam when you put it in?
Man, some outstanding advice coming out of this thread!

I had every intention of running .041 head gaskets, but was already tight on PTV with GMPP gaskets. I didn't want to risk clearance issues an/or I didn't want to flycut the pistons.

Interesting point on the headers, I thought the larger primaries were better for max power? Same goes for the intake. I've got a 90mm NW TB that I didn't end up running, maybe I should consider upgrading the intake and headers at some point.

I didn't degree the cam. Honestly, I trusted modern cam grinding tech (maybe wrong) and since I'm not a professional engine builder, and maybe only do a cam once every few years, I didn't see the point in spending the money for a degree kit. I'm not sure the cam is off considering how strong the car runs...it's probably an "issue" with the combo of parts.

That said, after quite a bit of work, the tune is dialed in to where the car drives like stock, and with the 4.10's, it runs like a beast. At this point, unfortunately, I'm more inclined to leave it alone and if I'm spending more money, spend it on a C6GS or the like and start fresh.
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ASRoff View Post
Detroit, (im from Detroit btw and a member of Motown Muscle) a few things I have noticed about your combo... 1. the 1 3/4's is too small for the set up.. to gain back some torque my suggestion would be cometic .041 head gaskets for better quelch and Pfadt try Y headers to bring in more torque... a fast 102 would help both numbers as well... did you degree the cam when you put it in?
1 3/4" is not too small for torque. I ran 1 3/4" Kooks on my old setup without cats and I went to 2.5" after the X not at the connection to the over axle pipes which I also attribute to the strong torque and wide band.

1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 on a C6Z.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...xperience.html

Comp has been known to have the cam ground a few degrees off, your cam could be slightly retarded shifting the power band up in the rev band.

Last edited by 93Polo; 06-07-2018 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 93Polo View Post
1 3/4" is not too small for torque. I ran 1 3/4" Kooks on my old setup without cats and I went to 2.5" after the X not at the connection to the over axle pipes which I also attribute to the strong torque and wide band.

1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 on a C6Z.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...xperience.html

Comp has been known to have the cam ground a few degrees off, your cam could be slightly retarded shifting the power band up in the rev band.
That's incredible. In this day and age with modern technology, there's no reason cams can't be ground perfectly.

Further, is the plan then to buy an adjustable timing set? Or remove the cam and return it with hopes of getting one that's dead-on?

Are there other companies (Cam Motion, TSP, etc) that grind their own cams with better attention to quality control?
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:08 AM
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ld-you-do.html

You can get an adjustable timing set such as a Cloyes Hex Adjust and then degree it which would be much easier with a Cam Card if you have it. A local tuner prefers CamMotion over Comp partially due to accuracy, FWIW. I have always run CamMotion and have no idea on TSP.

In theory a larger primary yields more HP, smaller primary more torque, longer length is more torque, and shorter length more HP.

Last edited by 93Polo; 06-07-2018 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 93Polo View Post
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ld-you-do.html

You can get an adjustable timing set such as a Cloyes Hex Adjust and then degree it which would be much easier with a Cam Card if you have it. A local tuner prefers CamMotion over Comp partially due to accuracy, FWIW. I have always run CamMotion and have no idea on TSP.
Yea, I read posts like this before buying my cam. They all seemed to be older so I assumed that Comp, given the size of the company, would have figured it out by now. Plus, it seems like Brian Tooley uses Comp for all the off-the-shelf grinds, and given his reputation, comp should be fine.

If I wasn't tired of always tearing into my car, I'd probably check it for academic purposes. It runs great now, so I'll probably leave it alone.

That said, OP...you may want to consider a cam not ground by Comp. Cam Motion, TSP, etc.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:18 AM
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I would think so too but I do not keep up with it as closely as I did a few years ago further good tech is not posted as regularly IMO. If I did go Comp I would degree. My last CamMotion cam was ground as advertised.

Last edited by 93Polo; 06-07-2018 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 93Polo View Post
In theory a larger primary yields more HP, smaller primary more torque, longer length is more torque, and shorter length more HP.
That's what I've always read, and why I didn't bother changing headers.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:41 AM
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Detroit. I said 1 7/8's because even stock LS1 engines (ls6 engines gain even more) have shown good gains with that and a FAST 102. in both HP and torque.... I suggested the Try Y's because they are designed to improve torque production under the curve while also allowing those stage 3 heads to breathe with a 1 7/8's primary. (the stage 3's are a lot of flow for a 346 with a relatively mild cam).... there are LOTS and LOTS of threads on LS1tech that support this. Kurt Urban and I had a discussion on this a while back and we pretty much agreed on the 1 7/8 primarys are the way to go on even stock LS6's (Kurt was my Neighbor until he moved to Texas last year.) Oh and in a weird twist... my closest friend down here is Mike Mizzi a former Detroit speed then Livernois employee. Kurt, Mike and I were the "Michigan trio" down here LOL! with this said, Im trying to give you an Idea on the best possible way to 1. gain back torque under the curve and 2 get the heads to breath like they should. of course all this is redundant if you go the C6 route. But I do love talking engine theory... I used to teach Recip and Turbine engines at the Michigan Institute of aviation and tech....

Last edited by ASRoff; 06-07-2018 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:57 AM
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Post 68
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1564771938

37x torque is low for the setup 1 3/4" is not costing him any torque, but might cost a few HP up top.

I like the idea of the Pfadts but have not witnessed many results on a C5.

Last edited by 93Polo; 06-07-2018 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:49 PM
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...p-24-rwtq.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ts-inside.html

(this is Scottys Corvette forum post) https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...442-395-a.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...deo-tapes.html

The first car is a heads and cam car.... the second 2 are scottys bolt on C5Z (stock heads and cam)with Pfadt tri-Y's and the last is also a bolt on only LS6 (stock cam and heads)

All 1 7/8's LT's both the bolt on cars have Fast 102's

again... these cars respond to bigger primarys. A heads and cam Car makes even bigger gains with 1 7/8's
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