CRANK-NO START, No fuel, No spark, many codes
10-13-2018, 07:17 PM
#1
Cruising
Thread Starter
Member Since: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CRANK-NO START, No fuel, No spark, many codes
1998 c5 100,00 miles
After sitting over winter. Battery went dead and I replaced it, I had a trickle charger on it but it got unplugged.
Fuel pump doesn't prime with key-on or crank but 50 psi with relay jumpered. relay tested sat
No spark
Codes:
P0351-P0358 all cylinders Iginition Coil primary/secondary circuit
P0606 ECM.PCM Module processor
P1518 Power Control Module to throttle actuator control module serial data circuti
DIC's: Reduced Engine Power, Service ABS, Service Traction control
Not sure if I should be chasing grounds, replacing the PCM or what.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
After sitting over winter. Battery went dead and I replaced it, I had a trickle charger on it but it got unplugged.
Fuel pump doesn't prime with key-on or crank but 50 psi with relay jumpered. relay tested sat
No spark
Codes:
P0351-P0358 all cylinders Iginition Coil primary/secondary circuit
P0606 ECM.PCM Module processor
P1518 Power Control Module to throttle actuator control module serial data circuti
DIC's: Reduced Engine Power, Service ABS, Service Traction control
Not sure if I should be chasing grounds, replacing the PCM or what.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
10-13-2018, 10:42 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
I found this thread, it sounds like the TAC module error might have fried the PCM.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-tech/2858308-p0606-and-p1518-help.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-tech/2858308-p0606-and-p1518-help.html
10-13-2018, 11:12 PM
#3
Moderator, Tech Contributor
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 9,512
Received 2,119 Likes
on
1,686 Posts
Clean G106 ( engine block above starter)...let me know how it goes...could be ignition switch also...I had a P1518 too...no comm with TAC last week....but no 0606 or ignition DTC's....cleaned G106 and will be replacing switch !!
Last edited by C5 Diag; 10-16-2018 at 01:58 PM.
10-15-2018, 05:02 PM
#4
Advanced
Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn Park MN
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello, Am fairly familiar with this issue. You may have a VATS issue. You can eliminate the starting circuit by going into the Theft Deterrent relay which is located in the passenger footwell above the BCM.Disconnect the battery. Go to the connector on the Theft Deterent Relay and jumper across from the pink wire to the purple wire. Reconnect the battery. This will energize the starter and cause the engine to crank. If this works you have eliminated the starter circuit without crawling under the car.
The next easy step is to jumper across the Theft deterrent relay connector to make sure it is energized. Run a jumper across C1 and A2 of the relay connector (with a relay removed) Reconnect the battery try to start the engine. If it starts the relay is bad. If nothing happens the issue is else where.
Let me know and we can go further.
The next easy step is to jumper across the Theft deterrent relay connector to make sure it is energized. Run a jumper across C1 and A2 of the relay connector (with a relay removed) Reconnect the battery try to start the engine. If it starts the relay is bad. If nothing happens the issue is else where.
Let me know and we can go further.
Last edited by 911AXER; 10-15-2018 at 05:04 PM.
10-17-2018, 05:31 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
I am sorry to say that you have more then a VATS issue with your car, I would check your grounds, check the main ground cable by the starter and all other ground points. Check your power cables at the battery making sure they are clean and tight, check positive cable connections on your starter solenoid and the positive cable connections at the engine bay fuse box. If that fails to resole your problems it could be your ignition switch or as somebody has already mentioned it could be your pcm. Hope this helps.
10-17-2018, 11:36 PM
#6
Instructor
Sounds like a simple problem of ur car forgot ur key.. need to relearn the match. Without trying to start ur car, put key in turn to on position, using an actual stopwatch/timer wait 11 minutes. Turn to off position, then turn to on position time 30 seconds. Then turn off again, back to on for another 30 seconds. Start ur car.
10-17-2018, 11:39 PM
#7
Instructor
if ur security light is flashing/on that can be a decent indication.. anti theft will 100% cut ur fuel pump off so it cant be stolen without ur key, car forgets the key from dead batt, etc.. lmk if it works curious to hear feedback
10-18-2018, 10:44 AM
#8
Melting Slicks
His first post states that it cranks, just doesn't fire up, also states no fuel pressure, no spark, and many codes, so no it is more than just a VATS issue.
10-18-2018, 10:56 AM
#9
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Sounds to me like he has a corrupted serial data buss.
Look to the LEFT of the BCM... You will find TWO thin STAR CONNECTORS. One of them only has four wires. That one connects to the LDCM, RDCM Seat control Module and the other connector.
POP the top shorting strip off that connector and see if you are able to crank and start the engine. You will have NO COMMS messages for the modules associated with that connector but that is normal while it in plugged.
Post the results
Bill
Look to the LEFT of the BCM... You will find TWO thin STAR CONNECTORS. One of them only has four wires. That one connects to the LDCM, RDCM Seat control Module and the other connector.
POP the top shorting strip off that connector and see if you are able to crank and start the engine. You will have NO COMMS messages for the modules associated with that connector but that is normal while it in plugged.
Post the results
Bill
Last edited by Bill Curlee; 10-18-2018 at 10:56 AM.
10-18-2018, 11:51 AM
#10
Instructor
thats exactly what happens when anti theft gets involved. Pump will not prime or have pressure, cuts 100% of fuel to engine, car will crank and throw Lots of codes. Even random ones. Just went through this with a shop who unplugged my battery. They thought they fried sensors. Unplugged battery, drained residual power by pumping the brake pedal, relearned the key and bam it fired right up, never an issue since (6 months or so) no codes at all
01-16-2019, 09:06 PM
#11
Cruising
Thread Starter
Member Since: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like a simple problem of ur car forgot ur key.. need to relearn the match. Without trying to start ur car, put key in turn to on position, using an actual stopwatch/timer wait 11 minutes. Turn to off position, then turn to on position time 30 seconds. Then turn off again, back to on for another 30 seconds. Start ur car.
01-16-2019, 09:30 PM
#12
Cruising
Thread Starter
Member Since: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No change. Still cranks but no start. I did get to the TAC module and ECM over the weekend. The metal part of the ECM connectors basically fell apart as I tried to remove them. I haven't remove the connectors yet. I see white plastic connectors with black part inside holding the wires.
I think it was your post earlier that suggested it could be the TAC leading to ECM failure. Is there a way to test them. I do have the ability to connect a single channel scope and am experienced with a DMM and test light. Also, the scan tool does not indicate any RPM when cranking
I think it was your post earlier that suggested it could be the TAC leading to ECM failure. Is there a way to test them. I do have the ability to connect a single channel scope and am experienced with a DMM and test light. Also, the scan tool does not indicate any RPM when cranking
01-16-2019, 09:33 PM
#13
Moderator, Tech Contributor
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 9,512
Received 2,119 Likes
on
1,686 Posts
Hi !!
remove the fuel pump relay and using a 12 volt test light connected to ground probe pin 86 and turn the key on..see if the 12v test light comes on for 2 seconds and then goes out...we are checking the control side of the relay circuit...you did however jumper pins 30/87 to activate the pump...Also disconnect a fuel injector...probe pink wire with test light connected to ground and with key on light will illuminate...now connect test light to battery POSITIVE...crank engine and probe the other wire..light will flicker if you are getting injection pulse...if no spark or injection pulse possible bad crank sensor...you will not get fuel pressure while cranking is because PCM isn’t seeing that ignition signal !!
remove the fuel pump relay and using a 12 volt test light connected to ground probe pin 86 and turn the key on..see if the 12v test light comes on for 2 seconds and then goes out...we are checking the control side of the relay circuit...you did however jumper pins 30/87 to activate the pump...Also disconnect a fuel injector...probe pink wire with test light connected to ground and with key on light will illuminate...now connect test light to battery POSITIVE...crank engine and probe the other wire..light will flicker if you are getting injection pulse...if no spark or injection pulse possible bad crank sensor...you will not get fuel pressure while cranking is because PCM isn’t seeing that ignition signal !!
Last edited by C5 Diag; 01-16-2019 at 09:41 PM.
01-16-2019, 09:52 PM
#15
Moderator, Tech Contributor
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 9,512
Received 2,119 Likes
on
1,686 Posts
Yes, strange you don’t even get the fuel pump to prime !!...if you can access the PCM and back probe the crank sensor signal wire (dark blue/white) wire at pin 12 on the C1 connector take a test light connected to battery POSITIVE and with key ON touch the tip of the test light to that wire...you should hear the fuel pump come on...try that !!
01-16-2019, 10:05 PM
#16
Moderator, Tech Contributor
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 9,512
Received 2,119 Likes
on
1,686 Posts
No change. Still cranks but no start. I did get to the TAC module and ECM over the weekend. The metal part of the ECM connectors basically fell apart as I tried to remove them. I haven't remove the connectors yet. I see white plastic connectors with black part inside holding the wires.
I think it was your post earlier that suggested it could be the TAC leading to ECM failure. Is there a way to test them. I do have the ability to connect a single channel scope and am experienced with a DMM and test light. Also, the scan tool does not indicate any RPM when cranking
I think it was your post earlier that suggested it could be the TAC leading to ECM failure. Is there a way to test them. I do have the ability to connect a single channel scope and am experienced with a DMM and test light. Also, the scan tool does not indicate any RPM when cranking
Last edited by C5 Diag; 01-19-2019 at 10:24 AM.
01-18-2019, 09:38 PM
#17
Cruising
Thread Starter
Member Since: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Voltageupdate
Hi !!
remove the fuel pump relay and using a 12 volt test light connected to ground probe pin 86 and turn the key on..see if the 12v test light comes on for 2 seconds and then goes out...we are checking the control side of the relay circuit...you did however jumper pins 30/87 to activate the pump...Also disconnect a fuel injector...probe pink wire with test light connected to ground and with key on light will illuminate...now connect test light to battery POSITIVE...crank engine and probe the other wire..light will flicker if you are getting injection pulse...if no spark or injection pulse possible bad crank sensor...you will not get fuel pressure while cranking is because PCM isn’t seeing that ignition signal !!
remove the fuel pump relay and using a 12 volt test light connected to ground probe pin 86 and turn the key on..see if the 12v test light comes on for 2 seconds and then goes out...we are checking the control side of the relay circuit...you did however jumper pins 30/87 to activate the pump...Also disconnect a fuel injector...probe pink wire with test light connected to ground and with key on light will illuminate...now connect test light to battery POSITIVE...crank engine and probe the other wire..light will flicker if you are getting injection pulse...if no spark or injection pulse possible bad crank sensor...you will not get fuel pressure while cranking is because PCM isn’t seeing that ignition signal !!
with the multimeter connected to the fuel injector with key off I got 11.8 volts, with key on I got 6.9 volts, while cranking I got 5.7 volts. I checked battery voltage and it was 12.7 volts. It seemed a little strange but I'm not an electronics engineer so I have no idea if it means anyting.
Last edited by Dave Mitchell; 01-18-2019 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Incomplete
01-19-2019, 08:27 AM
#18
Moderator, Tech Contributor
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 9,512
Received 2,119 Likes
on
1,686 Posts
Hey Dave !!
Yes, pin 86 is control side feed. Also, you shouldn’t have power to the injectors with KEY OFF...try that test with key off on an injector on each bank...INJR1 and INJR2 (fuses 22 and 18) power the injectors...pull those fuses and see if you lose power now with key the OFF. Might have a short to power there !!... It’s the crank sensor you’ll be looking at with no injector pulse or spark...you had said CAM sensor !!...for a ‘98 it’s the dark blue/ white wire on pin 44 on the C1 connector you’re after for CKP signal !!
EDIT: You can test the crank sensor signal with a voltmeter...you should see around 5- 6 volts if you have a good crank signal... I can post a video of my 2001 during this signal test if you’d like to see it...it’s only around 5-6
volts because a voltmeter only averages the voltage...that P0351-58 you are seeing is because the ignition control circuit is seeing either an open, short, or short to power...same thing you might be seeing on your injector circuit...you might have separate issues with your car...wiring and a crank sensor !!
Yes, pin 86 is control side feed. Also, you shouldn’t have power to the injectors with KEY OFF...try that test with key off on an injector on each bank...INJR1 and INJR2 (fuses 22 and 18) power the injectors...pull those fuses and see if you lose power now with key the OFF. Might have a short to power there !!... It’s the crank sensor you’ll be looking at with no injector pulse or spark...you had said CAM sensor !!...for a ‘98 it’s the dark blue/ white wire on pin 44 on the C1 connector you’re after for CKP signal !!
EDIT: You can test the crank sensor signal with a voltmeter...you should see around 5- 6 volts if you have a good crank signal... I can post a video of my 2001 during this signal test if you’d like to see it...it’s only around 5-6
volts because a voltmeter only averages the voltage...that P0351-58 you are seeing is because the ignition control circuit is seeing either an open, short, or short to power...same thing you might be seeing on your injector circuit...you might have separate issues with your car...wiring and a crank sensor !!
Last edited by C5 Diag; 01-19-2019 at 10:58 AM.
01-20-2019, 08:07 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
Try the Ignition Switch
I had P1518 also. Checked out all wiring and replaced TAC. Cranked but no start. Replaced Ignition Switch (just the back electrical part not the key and cylinder). Started right up. Low or no voltage can cause many false codes.
01-21-2019, 03:16 PM
#20
Racer
Mine is doing the same thing, swapped ignition switch,checked all grounds, relays, even took the TAC unit out along with the PCM, opened the pcm looked for any burn place on board looked fine. I put it back into the car and thought let me try it again and it started up. it idled for about 20 mins I turned it off and restarted it ran another 15-20 mins and I moved other vehicles out of the way got it off jack stands and drove around the block. Next morning got up went out and it cranked and ran bout 10 mins I moved it about 15 feet and put it in park and it died and went back to doing what it was doing. I know I put 12v to the fuel pump connector in the driver side wheel well before and car would crank fine. But car doesn't prime when ignition switch is first cut on. So I am very interested in seeing how this turns out mine has been down 18 months now.
So my question is how come it will crank with 12v to the fuel pump connector and run, and why after putting the pcm back in it cranked and ran and even moved under its own power and then all of a sudden go back to spinning over and no crank.?
So my question is how come it will crank with 12v to the fuel pump connector and run, and why after putting the pcm back in it cranked and ran and even moved under its own power and then all of a sudden go back to spinning over and no crank.?
Last edited by 04tripleblkcoupe; 01-21-2019 at 03:37 PM. Reason: added a few things