yetman

I have a 99' FRC that has Kooks LT Race Headers 1 7/8, Kooks X-Pipe, Borla Stingers, Vararam with power duct and a Tune from a reputable shop close by. I have an estimate for a TSP Cam, 228 R, 112 LSA. It is on order and the car will go to the shop for install and Dyno tune mid-December. What I am considering, is doing the heads at the same time - this though, is an after thought on my part. I would go with Texas Speed 225 heads - but will add nearly 3k to the bill. If I don't do them now, I would have them done and probably an intake swap in the late spring once the Holidays and tax man cometh ...

Any real downside to NOT doing the heads? I'd like to end up at some point, north of 400 RWHP. The FRC will not be tracked and is not a daily driver. I am looking for a street ripper, that great lopey sound, HP increase and low end power.

Opinions appreciated.

YetMan

walleyejack

Zo6 heads and a 224/224 cam, headers and cai got me 401 on my 02 vert

Vetteman Jack

Moved to C5 Tech.

grantv

Same comment as walleyejack, get some 243 heads... hecka cheaper than that, and will do great.

nickalltogether

Before getting my current Z06, I've had two FRC's, a 99 and an 00.

Parts on the 99:
- K&N Air intake
- LS6 intake manifold
- LS2 243 heads, unmodified
- TSP Torquer V2 with 112LSA
- Kook's 1 7/8" headers with no cats
- B&B Bullet Mufflers

That car made 410whp.

Parts on the 00:
- Stock air intake with zip tie mod and K&N filter
- LS6 intake manifold
- GM Performance CNC LS2 243 heads
- TSP 228R with 114LSA
- XS Power 1 3/4" Headers with Cats
- Borla Stinger Mufflers

That car made 415whp.

I bring this up because although the 00 made slightly broader power, the peak numbers weren't terribly different. The TSP 225 heads are probably better heads, but without an LS6 or FAST intake you probably won't realize much more than a stock 243 head. With the cost of the parts and labor I would just get a bigger cam and let it ride- especially if you'll be happy with 400whp. Save that $3000 difference for a supercharger.

yetman

If I were to go with a bigger cam, what would you suggest?

walleyejack

bigger is not always better my friend.
a lot of people like the smaller cam and make power, you definitely don t want to be clutching at low speed because is too much bucking.
give Brian Tooley a call, he will definitely help you out.

96darkhorse

DetroitPlac

Doing the heads at the same time as the cam is a little bit easier in that you can pull the lifters to install the cam. You've got a shop doing it, so that might not matter...but a fresh set of lifters (and trays if you go OEM style) on a new cam is a good idea, and the heads have to come off to get to the lifters.

A set of stock or mildly ported 243's is a great improvement over the heads you have now. Keep an eye on craigslist or eBay, you should be able to find a set for not a ton of money.

DetroitPlac

Also worth mentioning that when you do heads, you need a new tune. So doing it all at the same time can save some money on tuning costs. If you're on a budget, find an LS6 intake (or a Dorman LS2 and 90MM TB), and get it all done at once. You'll be pleased with that setup.

nullpointer

Going to play devils advocate here:

If the heads will add 3k to the budget, why not save the 3k and get a blower in the future? You will be a lot more power on tap versus heads.

walleyejack

imo one doesn have to spend 3k on heads, get the stock heads cnc d
maybe 1k at the very most, granted they may not give you as much as the 3k heads, but what is going to be the extra hp for 2k more ?

and you keep in all na

Mr. Black

I've been watching this thread. I also agree that 3k dollar heads are not necessary especially for a street car.

That being said, no way and this is just my opinion would I do a cam swap on an LS anything with any of the substandard stock heads.

At least upgrade to stock 243/799s or whatever else has been proven. That being said if you can afford it, sending them in to be CNC ported by whoever you choose is easy efficiency. 243s can often be had at wrecking yards for 300 bucks a pair and usually with low mileage on them.

From what the OP is describing I don't think 225 anythings are really needed but again that's just my opinion.

Also while the TSP version of the 228R is not a bad cam, it's not the most hi tech thing out there either and I especially wouldn't pair it with 3k dollar heads.

Stroker87

my build was pretty fun and made what i think a hell of a lot of power for what it was

fast 92mm
TSP 2.5 PRC 243's
BTR ls1 stg II n/a cam
full exhaust
full bolt on
tune

475/415 to the ground car ran a best of 11.21 @ 122mph 1.5x 60ft probably see 10's with a driver mod, had a members tell me i needed $4k heads to make what i did when i didnt even have $4k invest in my h/c swap

if you do it later your going to spend more money on tuning & labor plus your going to be sorry you didnt do it when you did the cam kinda self inflicting wound, i'll be the 1st to tell you 400 wheel hp on the street these days is not enough when a 5.0 is clipping 11's straight off the dealers lot and your cam'd FRC only 12's

save yourself the heartache and just do it all when you can your wallet will not be so lite in the end

opel

I installed a LS from a 98 Fbody in my 99 FRC last winter it came with the stock 803 heads ( I've been told there about the worst LS heads)with TSP titanium retainers and .660 lift valve springs. TSP Magic Stick 4 camshaft 239/242@.050.649/.600 111.5 LSA, LS6 Intake manifold , ARP rod bolts and bigger injectors. Before installing it I changed all the normal stuff. Balancer, timing chain/gears, seals, gaskets and so on. I did not have the time or the $ to change the heads at that time. With a very mild tune it made 397 HP and 360 Torque at the wheels.

I'm not overly found of the cam, I Autox and Hillclimb the car, It's not too bad for the hillclimb but sucks for Autox until it hits 4000 RPM, then it just pushes you into the seat. This weekend I'm picking up a set of 243 heads that will get some port work. The guy I'm getting the heads from also has a TSP 228R cam I was thinking of getting ($200)but after talking to TPS I think I'm going with there 228/232 cam.



I agree with what the other guys said. For a street car get the 243/799 heads a LS6 intake and the 228R. I would wait for the heads before taking it to the shop for the swap, why pay for the labor and tune twice.

ASRoff

devils advocate understood.....a counter to your counter.... for some folks on here who road race, they dont want the extra 60-80lbs on the nose of the car. Also since the car on the track is going to be spent screaming above 5,000rpm for most of it, its less complicated to just put heads and cam on the car... and not worry about throwing belts..... running out of meth..... over revving a blower....going lean....ect.. I have a Force fed car that I run 1/8 and 1/4 mile with. its a fun car (its also turbo not blower (im a aircraft mechanic so I prefer a turbine over a belt ) but, I see your point for diveability... certainly, and if your not going to go road racing, Its a good solution....... but then there is also the sound of a high compression, cammed engine that just makes ya giggle.

to the op Ported 243's are nice on a budget. and come pretty close to the aftermarket heads out there... personally (and this is just me) I'm looking at a set of Mast small bore cathedrals... the 11* valve angle means no issues with piston to valve clearance... and a low lash solid roller from Cam motion will take advantage of the heads. why the mast heads? well Cary Chonard (the guy that designed the heads and used to own ETP heads) and I went tho high school together Ha Ha!!!

ASRoff

OP one more thing..... if going with the 243's get a set of .040 cometic head gaskets.... the thinner gaskets allow for better Quelsh and really wake up the car. compression goes up a little too, but its the tighter quelsh your looking for. Again just my $.02 ......what ever you decide, post up here and share your combination, I look forward to reading about it.

JHrinsin

The PO put together the warmed over LS6 in my '99 FRC and it made 410 rwhp with this combo;

Callaway Honker CAI
descreened 85mm MAF, ported LS6 78mm throttle body, stock LS6 intake manifold, 36 lbs/hr injectors
stock 243 heads (non Z06) with GM MLS head gasket
forged Diamond -2cc pistons (slightly lower static compression ratio, Cometic 0.040 MLS head gaskets would have helped) forged rods, ARP bolts
Comp custom ground 226/230 0.598"/0.608" 113+2 camshaft
Comp trunion kit, 0.675" lift dual springs and Ti retainers
Manley push rods, LS7 lifters in LS2 trays with LS2 chain and Melling HP oil pump
1-3/4" LG P LT headers with cats and X-pipe (ceramic coated)
stock Z06 Ti exhaust
160 degree thermostat
93 octane tune

nullpointer

100% agree for road racing, no way in hell I would put a blower on it. High compression all the way I wish I could have had a turbo, the belt **** is annoying.

0Tampa Tuning

On my 2000 C5, 6 Speed, I used the Vararam intake, FAST 90mm air intake, LS2 throttle body, 228R cam on a 114, AFR 205 heads -.020 off, 30lbs injectors, Kooks headers with HF cats, 3.90 gears and Tampa Tuning .

It was very consistent between 450 to 460 RWHP depending the type of day and dyno.

The cam made it fast, and the gears made it quick. Real level car that was blast to drive and not over the top size cam.
Then I sold it and moved up to the ZR1.