dampermanatee

Does somebody have use the c6 z06 oil line and adapter plate on c5? it have a thermostat and it's less than half the price of the improved racing adapter with thermostat.

I'm also considering to use the c6 z06 oil cooler since i can have a new one for 100$ and it will connect directly to the hose.

I do street and hpde on hpde day i get the oil at 280-290 so i think that adding the z06 cooler migth be enough since the engine is stock and i'm in canada so i don't see day at 100f+

So i could have a z06 kit for like 260$ instead of like 900$ for a drm kit that don't even have thermostat.


Thanks,

gimp

Yeah, the DRM kit confuses me. "Get the big one only if it's a dedicated track car." Or just put a thermostat on it? Then you can get as big a radiator as you want ...

That said - what do your coolant temps look like? Upgraded radiator? Upgraded fans? (Regularly cleaned?)

dampermanatee

Radiator and fan are stock not all clean but cleaned as much as i can and my coolant is around 230-240 wich i think is normal on the track.

I need a thermostat since i sometime drive the car at 40-50f at fall

gimp

You can start with the oil cooler (like you said: thermostat, adapter, lines, cooler), though personally I started with a radiator and fans and I really like that order of doing things. YMMV.

dampermanatee

i know that but i want to know if anyone tried putting the c6z oil cooler on a c5 since it's like 1/4 of the price of others kit if it can do the job i'll go this way since i don't have tons of money to trow in my car.

JHrinsin

You have to remember that a C5 is a bottom feeder and the C6 is a front feeder - as far as routing air to the radiator is concerned under the skin the two models are different. Can the C6 oil cooler be used in a C5? Maybe. Has someone tried this in the past? Most likely - you will have to use the search function to be sure. Whatever is involved in mounting the C6 oil cooler in a C5 most likely involves some custom fabricated one off brackets. Folks have used the C6 hard lines in a C5. Will they have to be "massaged"? Most likely. Keep in mind that the factory C6 oil cooler adapter does not employ a thermostat - so the oil is always routed to the cooler and it can be over cooled if drive strictly on the street. But the C6 oil cooler lines and adapter may work okay on the street if it is used with a aftermarket radiator with an integrated EOC in the side tank.

Now if you would like to try your idea out here is a C6 oil cooler that recently sold for a decent price;

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...il-cooler.html

Improved Racing offers a thermostatically controlled adapter and lines upgrade for the C6;

http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-co...610-p-767.html

Now can you piece together your own oil cooler kit for say less than $600, or $500 or heck even less than $400, why not shoot for less than $300 - sure if you buy an undersized, in-efficient, used or cheap eBay oil cooler and go with marginal push-on fittings or bad -AN fittings and hose, no heat wrap/sleeve protection and a non-thermostatically controlled adapter, If you want to go cheap, then why try piecing a kit together, when you can buy one of these;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rev9-Black-...BMAk:rk:2:pf:0

Would it be better than nothing, maybe - just not sure how effective or reliable the setup would be. Personally I would touch that eBay kit with a 39-1/2 ft pole. Do you know how fast an LS oil pump can empty 6-7 quarts of oil from the pan if you happen to spring a serious leak? Faster than you can react and shut off the engine!

ImprovedRacing

In your case the OEM C6 Z06 cooler might be sufficient. However getting the C6 lines to work is probably more trouble than it's worth. I would recommend using our thermostatic adapter and the C6 Z06 cooler. You only need our thermostatic oil cooler adapter part number EGM-112-F1, 2 x OM-08-10 adapter fittings, some -10AN line, two 90-degree hose ends, one straight hose end, and one 45-degree hose end. Of course, you will also have to fab up some brackets to mount the cooler.

You would essentially be building this kit, but for the C5: http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-co...610-p-767.html

We have a C5 in the shop right now and are working on a kit. We are hoping to offer an extreme kit with the largest cooler we make, and an economy kit with a smaller cooler for mild applications.

dampermanatee

Thanks for the precision i tough the c6z line ad a thermostat I could try without and if i need to add one I will add a derale.
I won't touch to ebay kit neither i don't bring marshmallow to the track so i won't start a fire by shooting oil on the exaust manifold.
for the cooler i will do brackets it's not a problem.
I have tried so seach maybe not with the good term so didn't find anything, i was more woried by the ''risk'' that the line were not long enough. but if you say that somepeople used them i should be fine

Improved racing
The c6z line are half the price of your block only (i got them in CAD at the same price you sell them in USD). I was considering it with a cooler from summit racing they have some nice cooler that are not much more expensive than c6z cooler. It would be a better setup for sure but just line and fitting cost more than c6z line,
I have read a lot about header clearance with oil cooler adapter i know your adapted without the tstat is like the smaller one and fit on anything but will the integrated tsat will cause some clearance issue? For now i have stock manifold but if i would like to be able to add header if i want to.

oharal

Take my money!!!!

JHrinsin

That and a set of there trap door baffles for the 2-pcs bat wing oil pan!

ImprovedRacing

I've never seen the thermostat portion cause a clearance issue with headers. Usually if the non-thermostatic one fits, the thermostatic one will as well.

ImprovedRacing

Thanks guys! Check back with us in a couple of months and the kit should hopefully be available!

Walt G

The C6 factory oil lines do not have a thermostat in them, but they do have a pressure bypass valve, #2 in the drawing below which is part number 25014694 on the Z06. If you search that part number you'll find that it is the oil filter pressure bypass in a crap-ton of GM vehicles.

In my opinion, this is an important feature that the aftermarket has neglected. At high RPM, I don't think you want to be pushing all of your oil through the oil cooler, even with giant -AN lines and a really high flow cooler. With the factory GM lines, there is essentially a maximum flow through the lines and cooler because the pressure valve opens to bypass the cooler if the pressure gets too high.

Just something to think about, but many, many people push all their oil through the cooler and that seems to work just fine. It just didn't seem like a properly engineered solution to me. The decision is yours.

When I put the C6 oil lines into my C5, I dropped the cross member. Some have managed to get the lines in without dropping the cross member, but I couldn't see how that would have been possible, and those that did get it in there without dropping the cross member said stuff like "that was the worst thing I've ever done on any car ever". I was adding the batwing baffle doors anyways, so my crossmember was coming out no matter what, making the installation of the lines simple. They are pretty close to my ARH headers, but they do clear.

EDIT: I almost forgot... the C6 has the oil temperature sensor someplace else, so if you put these lines on your C5 you won't have a spot to screw the oil temp sensor back in. The aftermarket has thought of this of course with their adapters. But the C6 part can be drilled/tapped for the sensor, which is not that big of a deal, but something you do have to deal with.

JHrinsin

I am not 100% sure how the pressure bypass relief valve works in the factory C6 oil cooler setup, but keep in mind that its real function may have more to do with cold startup than anything. At cold startup, the oil pressure can be very high due to the fact that the oil is thick when cold vs.when warm. Not in my C5, but In one of my daily drivers, I typically see 79 PSI of oil pressure after cold startup, vs 37-39 PSI at idle once the engine and oil warms up a bit. Just saying...

Walt G

Absolutely... cold start-up and high engine RPM, or especially a combination of the two, is when the pressure could be really high in an oil cooler that doesn't have a pressure bypass. Good point.

ImprovedRacing

Beat me to it, but this is exactly correct.

It's really a cheap alternative to a thermostat, as it will bypass some oil when temps are low and pressure is high to help get oil up to temp. But because it's so small it doesn't bypass a lot of fluid. The factory lines are also small (1/2" ID) so the pressure drop across the factory lines and cooler are pretty high. There is one advantage to a pressure bypass though: If for some reason the cooler or lines become clogged, it will still allow some oil to get to the engine.

ImprovedRacing

The valve is going to crack when the pressure drop across the cooler and lines exceeds a certain value. Once oil is up to temp, the pressure drop isn't necessarily high enough to open the valve even at high RPMs (high oil flow rates). It's probably more so when the oil is cold and very viscous, but it could happen in this case because the lines are small. It all depends on how restrictive the cooler and lines are. But at the race track you wouldn't want your oil cooler being bypassed at high RPMs because you'd never get any cooling.

Walt G

I'm going to disagree with you on this part... the oil pressure bypass is not an on/off switch with either all flow going to the cooler or none. It maintains a maximum pressure in the cooler system, which means there will always be flow, but limited to a max flow.

The effectiveness of a cooler is not linearly proportional to the flow rate of the hot oil through the system, big time diminishing returns here. Less flow through the cooler just means that the oil that does flow through the cooler gets cooled to a lower temperature (because it spent more time in the cooler) than if you had more flow through the cooler. More flow at a higher temperature or less flow at a lower temperature, but once it's all mixed together again, the total heat rejection doesn't change much.

I would not want an air-to-oil cooler without a thermostat though, which is where your product comes in and I believe is the best solution for an air-to-oil cooler. Ideally I'd like to see both a thermostat AND a pressure bypass, but for an air-oil cooler, I think the thermostat is the better solution if you can only have one, but then you need big lines and a high flow cooler.

JHrinsin

Another disadvantage of the factory C6 oil cooler set up is that it can over cool the oil on the street. This graph illustrates the point.

http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-co...610-p-767.html

http://www.improvedracing.com/images...600_23_lrg.jpg

Now granted this is with a C6 Z06 with the large capacity dry sump tank, but it still helps to point out why a thermostatically controlled setup is so important. Also by offering three (3) different thermostat temperatures (180F, 200F or 212F) for their adapters, you can basically custom tailor your setup to you specific; engine, intended vehicle usage and maybe most importantly the specific weight of oil you are using. Pretty cool!

ImprovedRacing

Yes, you're right, the valve will only open enough to equalize the force imposed by the pressure drop across the cooling circuit and the opposing force of the spring. But my point is you don't want a system that is going to be bypassing the cooler at high RPMs at the track. Since you're at high RPMs most of the time, if you have a bypass that is bypassing your cooler by any amount, then you're only using some of the cooling capacity of the cooler. Your cooling circuit should be designed so it isn't overly restrictive so that you can make full use of it and not require a bypass valve.

Well, the problem with this rationale is that the heat rejection rate of the cooler is dependent on the difference in temperature between the ambient air and the fluid.

The formula for heat rejection is specific heat * mass * Delta T.

You can calculate the heat rejection in two different ways. Specific heat of air * mass of air * Delta T of air before and after cooler. Or specific heat of fluid * mass of fluid * Delta T of fluid before and after cooler.

As the fluid cools, the delta T between air and fluid decreases because ambient air temp doesn't change, which also translates to a decrease in delta T between the air before and after the cooler, and so the heat rejection rate decreases as well. As a result, while a lower flow rate does decrease the temperature of the fluid to a lower temperature, it also rejects less heat. It doesn't lower the temperature enough to compensate.

So you're trying to maximize mass * delta T, not just delta T. If you increase the flow rate, delta T does go down, but not linearly with flow, so you end up with a higher heat rejection.

Another point this brings up is that the cooler performs the best at air high speeds, which is typically while the engine is at high RPMs, and exactly when you want to use the cooler.

If what you said were true, oil thermostats wouldn't work. They don't completely bypass the cooler, only a large percentage of the flow. So some fluid is always flowing through the cooler. The small amount of fluid flowing through the cooler does get cooled significantly, but it's impossible to cool it beyond the ambient air temperature. So when you mix it back in with the rest of the fluid it has little effect on overall fluid temp.

Bottom line is that for best cooling performance, you want a cooling circuit that is not too restrictive to cause an issue at max oil flow when oil is at operating temp and you want to flow all fluid through that circuit. I do agree that the stock cooling circuit probably does need a pressure bypass and isn't a very efficient system since the lines are kind of undersized for the oil flow rates.