laron

I hope this one hasnt been beat to death but I did a search and could find much..

This Monday Ive got a TR 224/224 112 going into the stock LS6..

The only modds I have are a Vararam and BFG DR's...

Im really excited But at the same time scared it's not gonna be much of a change over the stock 04 LS6 cam...

Have any of you done this cam only mod with this cam or similar...If so what were the differances in rwhp and track times....

Someone told me Id be lucky to gain 2-3 tenths....Id be pretty upset If I spent 1,400 for cam/springs/pushrods and install and only pick up 2 tenths..

Well if youve done it already just let me know the truth...Even if it's gonna hurt...

laron

Come on......Someone here has actually done this I know????

My car is a 04 a4 w/ 2.73 gears. Bone stock it dynoed 299 rwhp and 309 rwt on a dyno jet...It ran consistent 13.5-13.7's at 101-103 mph..

I then changed the head and cam to a stock 04 LS6 head and cam...

Untuned I dynoed 338 rwhp and 332 rwt. It ran 13.4-13.6 at 102-104 mph...

With the stock LS6 tuned (diablo sport) I put down similar numbers but averaged 13.1-13.3 at 104-106 mph.....

Then I added a Vararam to the LS6 and average 13.1-13.3 at 105-107 mph....

With the tuned LS6 and Vararam I put down 345 rwhp and 337 rwt on the same dyno jet as all the above dynos....

All numbers are 100% smoothed and SAE corrected....

All track runs were done at Race way park in Oahu Hawaii....

As you can see it has been a slow uphill battle for me to have a consistent 12 second 2.73 A4 at this track in Hawaii..

Im hoping that the TR224/224 will be what I need....

If anybody is interested.....I will post what happens when you add a Tr 224/224 112 cam to a stock LS6 (stock minus Vararam) on the dyno and at the track.

She goes into surgery this Monday...Wish me luck...Ill be Happy with 365 RWHP and 350 rwt....Anything over that will be extra iceing...


I know those numbers sound weak to most of you Z06 guys....But REMEMBER....The average 2.73 a4 dynos around 290 rwhp/300 rwt and runs the 1/4 in 13.6 at 102 mph....

That would put me a solid 75 rwhp/50rwt above my stock competitors...And hopefully a solid 7 tenths quicker.

THATS A BIG DEAL FOR ME.

Barely Legal

That's a pretty small cam and if you are going to go in there, I would go a bit bigger to get some results. you will indeed probably get 2 tenths out of that cam over the one you have. 20 HP sounds about right.

kbreese

Wow, that sucks you paid all that money to swap in LS6 heads & cam and only gained a couple tenths and 1 to 2 mph. Can't believe how low your trap speeds are! Whats the DA in Hawaii?

As far as the cam, the TR224 is one of the best all around cams ever made for a street car. That being said, if your goals are mostly cenetered around the track you should definitely go bigger. I'd recommend A futral F11 or F13, or else a LG G5X1, X2 or maybe even X3. You might just make your goal with the TR224 though. Just seems like a lot of work you are doing for overall little gains.

laron

Yes the Z06 stock head and cam was not the way to go.....

I averaged 13.6 at 102 stock.......And then 13.2 at 106 after the LS6 parts....

4 mph and 4 tenths is a sotp differance though....

Most notably in my 0-60 mph wich went from 5.0 to 4.6 after the swap.

I was just trying to play it too safe because I had just blown the engine on my supercharged Camaro and was scared to blow up my brand new 50,000 $ car...

Now I feel much more comfortable.

I just hear so many different opinions on this cam...

Ive got some people telling me Ill only pick up 15-20 rwhp....Then some people saying a minimum of 25..... And some people claiming they gained close to 40 rwhp..

My local tuner showed me a dyno of a camaro that actualy gained 50 rwhp off this cam on stock LS1 heads.....Then they also showed me a dyno of another guy who had patriot heads and the same cam and only dynoed 360 rwhp.

Theres just know way to know how your car will react to any cam...

I chose this cam because there are many 400 rwhp cam only camaros and corvettes (with longtubes) using the TR 224/224.....And there cars are still very streetable....

Well we will know on Monday how much power an stock LS6 makes buy just adding a TR 224/224 @112

kbreese

So I take it you know someone with a Z06 who's putting in a TR224? it will depend also if it's an 01 or an 02+ Z06 b/c the 02's had a little more aggressive cam than the 01's. My guess if its an 02 Z06 ~20rwhp gain and if its an 01 ~25rwhp gain.

That car that only made 360rwhp with the patriot heads, which heads were they? the 5.3l ones? Also what car was it and what were the supporting mods?

laron

Kabreese....My car has a stock LS6...

I replaced the LS1 head and cam with the LS6 head and cam back in Feb 2005...

It was the LS6 conversion kit from summit for 1800 bucks...

Gained 39 rwhp with it.

So I have an LS6 engine with a vararam...The car is a 04 so I also have the LS6 manifold.

So basicly I have the heart of a 4004 Z06 with the body of an a4 coupe.

Still not as good as a 2004 Z06...But probaly very comparable to an 2.73 a4 C6 power wise...Without the tourque managment problem.

So we will see what happens on Monday when the 224 cam is installed/tuned on my stock LS6.

Morzoff

If you are going into the motor, put a bigger cam in

I went with a 228/230 590 112LSA

kbreese

Well not quite, the LS6 Block is different than the LS1 block. Its stronger. There are other differences to...as one example the red fuel rail covers, and i think some other intrernal differences too. Yes, the heads and cam are the bulk of the difference power wise, but tecnically you can't really say you have an LS6 engine unless you do an entire swap. Instead, you have an LS1 with LS6 heads & cam

Anyhow, good luck and be sure to report back your results!

laron

Actually Im pretty sure the 2004 LS1 and 2004 LS6 are identical in all ways minus...

Heads...cam

fuel rail covers...(just a 80$ plastic part I could get any where if I cared)

oil cooler....

The throttle body is the same...The manifold is the same...The LS engine is the same.....They are the same strength.....The LS6 was Lighter due to the heads being lighter...

It's not the engine that makes the Z06 really faster than the coupe....

An a4 2.73 will only gain 4 tenths with the LS6

An a4 3.15 will only gain 4-5 tenths with the LS6

An mn6 3.42 will only gain 5-6 tenths with the LS6

It's the weight and gearing that give the Z06 another 2-3 tenths and then have it be a solid 8-9 tenths quicker then a comparable mn6 coupe.

So I do have an LS6 engine.....All 02 and up coupes had the basics to be a LS6....But they were lacking the most important parts....The head and cams...


I beleave that if you drop an AFR head and wild cam into your LS1 then you still have a mean H/C LS1.

If you convert your LS1 to The GM spec LS6.....You have an LS6....

Thats why its called the GM LS1 to LS6 conversion package.

Im gonna go research to see if there are any other differances....

Talk to you later

laron

I went and did some research....The LS6 dose have a different aluminum casting and stronger pistions.....But I dont know if these were also intergrated to the coupe in 2002 since this imformation was found on a write up from 2001.

Weather it was or not means very little though...As pistons and a casting will make no differance on the dyno....

I was 5 above a stock 01 Z06 and 7 below a stock 03 Z06 when my LS6 was dynoed stock....Sounds about right to me for a a4 LS6..


Ill never say I have a Z06 or a Z06 engine....It's an LS6 ( there is a differance) I realize that...

WELL IT WILL BE GOING INTO SURGERY SOON AND WE WILL SEE....

kbreese

And you are also forgetting about the entire block. an LS1 block is not an LS6 block. Different block, different pistons, different oil pump, different FRC's etc etc.... still a lot of differences. The point is you do not have an LS6 engine and should not tell people so, its just not true. People also put the brake ducts and Z06 wheels on their C5 coupe to mke it look like a Z06 but it doesnt make it an actual Z06 any different than you swapping in Z06 heads and cams makes your engine an LS6. I'm not trying to be argumentative or burst your bubble I am just presenting facts. Good luck with the TR224.

JerriVette

years back..the 224/224 .561 114lsa cam was a "big" cam...Now its a baby cam...with headers and a 25% asp pully you should be real close to equaling 400 rwhp in a M6.

Ever consider new gears and convertor?

What convertor do you have in there? You might do better with more gear 3.42 and a higher stall convertor....

Just a thought...

Good luck and have fun!

Enjoy the ride.

JerriVette

Y do a 112 lsa on an automatic? Usually 114lsa is better for both emissions and more importantly an automatic tranny......

Most importantly don't forget to upgrade the valvetrain...

Stock valve springs won't hold the 224/224 .561 114lsa ..

Go either crane dual valve spring kit? or Patriot Dual gold spring kit? Comp 921's are probably an overkill. Remember to swap out the vavle springs with your aftermarket cam every 20 K miles...

I don't see gears or convertor being mentioned...

Really before you open that motor again?...don't you think a convertor ie. Yank 3500 1.6 str and 3.42's would be a better way to improve the performance of your car?



Just an fyi.

Bob K

Put in a 3:42 rear and a high stall converter and you will be in the mid 12's.

YO-EL (Forum Member) had a set of LS6 heads, LG Long tubes, TR224 cam, a 3:42 rear and converter on his 2000 C5. He was turning 11.50's with Drag Radials.

Bob K.

chriswtx

Actually, since 2001 all C5 blocks have been LS6 short blocks. So all 2001 LS1 and later blocks and internals are actually LS6 minus the cam...

All of this information is variously collected from the Corvette Forum message board.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1997

Completely new, redesigned Corvette. Base (FE1) and Z51 (FE3) suspension packages.
All Z51 cars include: Power Steering Cooler, xx, xx, ??
97-00 C5 LS1's produce 345 HP @ 5600 RPM and 350 Ft Lbs of torque @ 4400 RPM.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1998

Convertible becomes available
Active Handling becomes available late in year
The two slots of a 1998 (and possibly late 1997s) curve toward the rear at the bottom. (versus straight down)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1999

26# injectors substituted for 28#
Fuel pump revised to reduce noise
FRC "Fixed Roof Coupe" aka the hardtop, becomes available. All FRC's are MN6 (6-speed) cars with the Z51 suspension package, and are about 60lbs lighter than coupes.
HUD introduced
only one line in driver's side fuel rail cover (no fuel return line?)
Power telescoping wheel becomes an option
? Steering hardware changed to combat wandering
door sill trim plates added

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2000

Millennium Yellow available
? "Thin Spoke" versus "wagon wheel" design wheels become standard.
Pup cats added to CA models for LEV emissions requirements (5hp loss relative to 97-99)
Steel swaybar endlinks instead of plastic on Z51 equipped cars
Z51 swaybar diameters grow (25.4/21.7 to 28.6/21.7 to 28.6/23.6 (note: new rear same as Z06)
No keyhole on passenger side doorhandle
Passenger airbag 'off' switch added to console (light by TC/AH button)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2001

return to 28# injectors for all models.
Second Generation Active Handling
Nassau Blue discontinued
Alternator 'clutch' pulley added on A4 cars
New soundproofing + foam in all cars
Smaller keyfob
electrochromic dimming rearview and driver's mirrors
lighter AGM battery
Thickness + Material in vert change
Chrome exhaust tips for coupe + vert
85MM MAF with integral temp sensor (versus 74mm with separate plug for IAT)
LS1 cam profile changed to: .500/0.500, 198/208 on 115.5LSA (From: 0.472/0.479, 202/210 on 117)
All Corvettes now have the LS6 intake manifold
All Corvettes now have the LS6 engine block (windage passages in block), which includes a beefier oil pump.
LS1 changes result in new output of 350 HP @ 5200 RPM and 375 Ft Lbs of torque @ 4400 RPM (MN6)
Hardtop/FRC discontinued
Pup cats added to all models
Stronger synchros in all transmissions
Exhaust manifolds revised (5hp regained) - thin wall cast replacing SS manifolds
metal valvestem caps (late year)
Torque Tube changed from metal-matrix composite to aluminum alloy 6061, increased in dia from 55 to 63 mm.
Driveshaft couplings have also been upgraded on manual-equipped models for additional strength and durability
Introduction of the Z06, which has as differences:
hardtop body style
rear brake ducting
screened inlets on front fascia, without foglights
F1 supercar tires 265-17 front, 295-18 rear, on 17x9.5 and 18x10.5 (one inch wider, respectively
new LS6 top-end with new style head design (10.5:1 compression, 64cc chamber), LS6 cam (0.525/0.525, 204/211 on 116) - 385hp
M12 transmission with shorter gearing (1-2-3 analagous to MN6 with 3.90 rear diff
Titanium exhaust system
lightweight windshield
New, stronger clutch with redesigned master + slave cylinder
Stronger rear differential (shotpeened ring gear)
Red brake calipers (otherwise identical)
Trans overtemp warning light on DIC
6500 redline gauges with special checkering + Z06 font
redesigned PCV system to help combat oil burning
Red LS6 Fuel Rail Covers (FRC's)
FE4 Z06 suspension - uprated springs, bars (30mm/23.6mm), shocks (note front spring and rear bar same as Z51)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2002

Z06 Changes:
Z06 LS6 cam changed to: 0.551/0.547, 204/218 on 117.5
Less restrictive intake airbox lid
Descreened MAF
Removal of pup-cats (total with changes = 405hp)
Z06 shocks revised with less rebound for better launching
Z06 brake pads revised for better stopping (generate more dust)
Lighter, sodium filled valves w/ stronger valvesprings
higher tension rings installed to prevent oil burning problems
slight piston redesign *
clutch strength upgraded.
HUD available on Z06 (not avail '01 model year)
Wheel supplier changed to Speedline, moved from forged to cast. Weight nearly identical
Electron Blue color offered
Steel endlinks changed to aluminum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2003

Late model-year new fuel system design from C6's

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004
· Z06 shocks further refined. Accompanying upper front control arm bushing, and rear swaybar bushing changes.

laron

Yea I thought they all blocks were the LS6 starting in 01 or 02...

It just wouldnt make sense for GM to produce an LS1 block and an LS6 block when they could just disinguish one from the other with the heads and cam.....Much cheaper to just produce one block...

So my engine block is a LS6.....My cars NOT a Z06...But I do have the same engine....

Come on...I dynoed higher than a 01 Z06 and Lower than a 03 Z06 on the same dyno....

Thats exactly what a a4 Ls6 should do...

So what ever I pick up from this cam should be a little less than a actual Z06 car...

I loose 18% through the drive train vrs the Z06's 15%

My exhaust is also some what more restrictive (I beleave)

Other than that my corvette should be a great example of what happens when you add a TR 224/224 112 to a stock LS6

The only mod I have period is a Vararam.

Ill make sure that I have my actual dyno sheets in front of me when I type my results tomorrow..

Ill post the exact stock LS1 dyno..

The exact stock LS6 dyno..

The exact stock LS6 with vararam dyno...

And then finally....My results with the stock LS6 heads, the TR 224/224 112 cam and a vararam...

IM SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

laron

I just called my tuner and my springs/pushrods didnt come in on friday...

I still taking my car there tonight to be nice and kool tomorrow in case my parts come in on the UPS at 12 PM....

Still excited...Just a little worried

chiefDave

I have a TR 224 227 570 570 114... close, but not the same exact cam, 01 LS6 heads with gual springs, M12 w/ 342 (give me a few HP on the A4) Vararam... most of the same mods but Shaner ported TB, ASP underive pulley, electric water pump, but IMO I did not get a whole lot of HP or gain in the 1/4 with the additional mods.

The Bluff is I gained about 23 RWHP and 20 RWT with this CAM, and dropped .32 in the 1/4 and gained 2 MPH. I added a new OZZ700 cluth when we added the CAM, so I think that gained me some at the track by my 60' on the 11.50 runs (1.67 vs OEM LS6 cluth whish 60 @ 1.70) but there was no slipping at the big end.

This is a great street CAM and it pulls hard from idle to 7k (with upgrades to the valve train) and it does well at the track as I am NOT a great driver and I think with my mods, there is nothing wrong with 11.50 @ 120 and a best 60 of 1.5... sooooooo IMO I would say .2 and 2mph are an easy gain for just the cam and I woudl not get all wound up about the dyno. If yuo want gains at the track, who cares what it puts down on the dyno right? Plus, you have to drive it to the track well at least I do. Good luck brother and keep us posted and I say next mod for you is gears and a TC and you will be 11s all day, maybe low 11s???
Dave
PS I do have a 342 at the house I was going to use as a corps but I would not want to ship to the islands $$$

laron

Thanks for the post chief dave......

These two cams are very close.....

If I got the same 23 rwhp and 20 rwt as you Id be at....

368 rwhp and 358 rwt fully smoothed and sae corrected...

I hope I can get that or better.....3 tenths In the 1/4 would put me at a comfortable 12.8-13.1 average.....I ccould defiently live with that...

Ive never even seen a stock Z06 hit a 12 at our track...Although Ive heard there was one that hit a 12.7...

The 02 Vipers can hit High 12's at my track...Although Ive heard there was one that hit a 12.6 stock....

So you see that would be awesome for me...

My cars parked in front of the shop kooling down right now..

I hope they get my springs and push rods!!!