[Z06] How low is too low miles?
12-11-2017, 05:37 AM
#21
That's way, way low.
If you're buying it as a museum piece or a "collector piece,' then maybe. It's going to get a high price in that market. What I'm saying is, if you plant to drive it another 1500 miles in the next 15 years, it might work for you.
If you plan to double the mileage on the odometer in a year or less, you're buying the wrong car.
I haven't dealt as much with Corvettes, but my experience is with European cars, a lot of Mercedes Benz, Audi, some Volvo, the occasional Porsche and a few more exotic Euro cars. Also, I work on drivers (at least occasional drivers, if not daily drivers) that are likely to continue at or near that mileage per year. I don't work on museum pieces. With those cars, the threshold seems to be around 6,000 mile/year, unless it is a one owner, garaged in the winter "summer car" like a MB SL Roadster (some Corvettes definitely fit in this category as well), then maybe down to 3,000-4,000 miles/year. I don't think I've seen any car under those thresholds that wasn't already "totaled" by neglect and decay. What I mean is the bill for "catching up" on maintenance, plus repairing/replacing things that have been damaged by the neglect or just decayed beyond useful service, the total bill to get them roadworthy and reliable exceeds the value of the car. I seriously doubt Chevies, even Corvettes, are much different.
The short and easy answer is this. If you plan to drive the car you're buying 6,000 miles a year, look for one that's been driven 6,000 miles a year for most of its life. If you're planning on driving 15,000 miles a year, look for something in that range. If you're looking for a museum piece you'll only drive 100 miles or less a year, look for one that's already in that range. You can buy a little lower mileage or a little higher, and adjust your price point, but you can expect big issues if you radically change the driving pattern of the car.
If you're buying it as a museum piece or a "collector piece,' then maybe. It's going to get a high price in that market. What I'm saying is, if you plant to drive it another 1500 miles in the next 15 years, it might work for you.
If you plan to double the mileage on the odometer in a year or less, you're buying the wrong car.
I haven't dealt as much with Corvettes, but my experience is with European cars, a lot of Mercedes Benz, Audi, some Volvo, the occasional Porsche and a few more exotic Euro cars. Also, I work on drivers (at least occasional drivers, if not daily drivers) that are likely to continue at or near that mileage per year. I don't work on museum pieces. With those cars, the threshold seems to be around 6,000 mile/year, unless it is a one owner, garaged in the winter "summer car" like a MB SL Roadster (some Corvettes definitely fit in this category as well), then maybe down to 3,000-4,000 miles/year. I don't think I've seen any car under those thresholds that wasn't already "totaled" by neglect and decay. What I mean is the bill for "catching up" on maintenance, plus repairing/replacing things that have been damaged by the neglect or just decayed beyond useful service, the total bill to get them roadworthy and reliable exceeds the value of the car. I seriously doubt Chevies, even Corvettes, are much different.
The short and easy answer is this. If you plan to drive the car you're buying 6,000 miles a year, look for one that's been driven 6,000 miles a year for most of its life. If you're planning on driving 15,000 miles a year, look for something in that range. If you're looking for a museum piece you'll only drive 100 miles or less a year, look for one that's already in that range. You can buy a little lower mileage or a little higher, and adjust your price point, but you can expect big issues if you radically change the driving pattern of the car.
12-11-2017, 10:05 AM
#22
Safety Car
"Mr. Madison, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
So much of this on this thread. Bottom line... look the car over very carefully, research the owner/maintenance history, expect to replace a few things, and _if_ it all checks out, most likely you are getting an amazing car for the $$.
So much of this on this thread. Bottom line... look the car over very carefully, research the owner/maintenance history, expect to replace a few things, and _if_ it all checks out, most likely you are getting an amazing car for the $$.
12-11-2017, 11:42 AM
#23
Team Owner
"Mr. Madison, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
So much of this on this thread. Bottom line... look the car over very carefully, research the owner/maintenance history, expect to replace a few things, and _if_ it all checks out, most likely you are getting an amazing car for the $$.
So much of this on this thread. Bottom line... look the car over very carefully, research the owner/maintenance history, expect to replace a few things, and _if_ it all checks out, most likely you are getting an amazing car for the $$.
12-11-2017, 02:41 PM
#24
Safety Car
I understand the concern of buying a "zero mile" car, but I also think it is way overblown... unless someone is _paying_ near original price for the car.
I'd definitely pay a small premium for an unmolested, next-to-new car, with perfect paint, interior, and no mechanical abuse, that had been stored properly.
Last edited by WA 2 FST; 12-11-2017 at 03:31 PM.
12-13-2017, 09:07 PM
#25
Team Owner
In all honesty, I was just playing. It's a funny line in the movie.
I understand the concern of buying a "zero mile" car, but I also think it is way overblown... unless someone is _paying_ near original price for the car.
I'd definitely pay a small premium for an unmolested, next-to-new car, with perfect paint, interior, and no mechanical abuse, that had been stored properly.
I understand the concern of buying a "zero mile" car, but I also think it is way overblown... unless someone is _paying_ near original price for the car.
I'd definitely pay a small premium for an unmolested, next-to-new car, with perfect paint, interior, and no mechanical abuse, that had been stored properly.
I recognized the line but not the movie. Don't know what happened to the one in FS I was referring to. Made a very reasonable offer and haven't heard back. Two days ago. I sure as hell don't need another Corvette but to paraphrase another movie line.....from Clint.......need's got nothing to do with it
12-13-2017, 10:11 PM
#26
Instructor
I bought an 03z a couple weeks ago with 2,900 miles on it. Its a brand new car, been garage kept its entire life. If you find a low mileage car that was kept in a good environment and stored properly tou wont have any problems. I already ordered heads/cam/intake for it. Picked mine up from a dealer 4 hours after it was traded in.
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C5Dobie (12-14-2017)
12-14-2017, 11:28 AM
#27
Drifting
I purchased a barely used 03 Z w/ 12xxx miles 4 years ago....engine strong as hell, one of the highest dyno runs for a bone stock C5Z @ the builder I go to (slowhawk) - however the previous owner was a retiree w/ a home on cape cod 1 row of houses removed from the waterfront. Car was stored in a large barn style garage that wasn't 100% airtight & even if it was during the summer months he would park it out front - the suspension components & low hanging rubber bushings were quite worn & oxidized, but I wasn't deterred much since the drivetrain was strong as hell, the paint was nearly mint save for 1 blemish, & the interior literally looked & smelled as new. Since I planned on upgrading sway bars/bushings/endlinks etc. anyhow those didn't matter, some bar keepers friend & green scouring pad followed by some light polish & my suspension/undercarriage is looking show ready. I'm still running the stock brakes (other than fluid) @ 36,500 miles now.
As I've said in other threads w/ similar discussion- the issues I noted above can be fixed/addressed, you can mod most any aspect of a C5 to shape it to your liking, you can swap out wheels & leaf springs for bigger rubber & coil overs, - the car is an open palate for whatever you wanna do to it.......go ahead & wrap or paint it if you don't like the color. One thing that isn't adjustable, mod-able, or fixable is mileage, period. There is no magic potion you can pour into the tank to somehow reverse the mileage & turn a 75k mile car miraculously into a 10k mile car.
There are certainly lots of variables/factors to consider, some of the points mentioned regarding the "reliability" of regularly driven examples are valid as opposed to storage garage queens, but you can also argue on the other side there's no way to ascertain what type of abuse, misuse, & maltreatment/lack of maintenance had occurred to a high mileage example either.
Mileage don't lie - & while the finer merits of a well maintained higher mileage car are worth discussing, generally speaking the bulk of a car's value is tied to the mileage. If you decided to save some $$ & buy a lightly modded (or stock) higher mileage car w/ 50,75,100k on the clock & that works for what you had intended that's fine by me.....but trying to come up w/ some tangible argument that a higher mileage car is "better" than a super low mileage one (especially w/ a C5Z which is known to be a track rat & begs to be throttled on the street as well) is just plain asinine & sounds more like sour grapes/buyers remorse than rational thought.
As I've said in other threads w/ similar discussion- the issues I noted above can be fixed/addressed, you can mod most any aspect of a C5 to shape it to your liking, you can swap out wheels & leaf springs for bigger rubber & coil overs, - the car is an open palate for whatever you wanna do to it.......go ahead & wrap or paint it if you don't like the color. One thing that isn't adjustable, mod-able, or fixable is mileage, period. There is no magic potion you can pour into the tank to somehow reverse the mileage & turn a 75k mile car miraculously into a 10k mile car.
There are certainly lots of variables/factors to consider, some of the points mentioned regarding the "reliability" of regularly driven examples are valid as opposed to storage garage queens, but you can also argue on the other side there's no way to ascertain what type of abuse, misuse, & maltreatment/lack of maintenance had occurred to a high mileage example either.
Mileage don't lie - & while the finer merits of a well maintained higher mileage car are worth discussing, generally speaking the bulk of a car's value is tied to the mileage. If you decided to save some $$ & buy a lightly modded (or stock) higher mileage car w/ 50,75,100k on the clock & that works for what you had intended that's fine by me.....but trying to come up w/ some tangible argument that a higher mileage car is "better" than a super low mileage one (especially w/ a C5Z which is known to be a track rat & begs to be throttled on the street as well) is just plain asinine & sounds more like sour grapes/buyers remorse than rational thought.
12-14-2017, 03:24 PM
#28
Safety Car
.....but trying to come up w/ some tangible argument that a higher mileage car is "better" than a super low mileage one (especially w/ a C5Z which is known to be a track rat & begs to be throttled on the street as well) is just plain asinine & sounds more like sour grapes/buyers remorse than rational thought.
I completely agree.
Just recently purchased a 478 mile 2011 ZR1 to add to my stable... I paid about $3k more than the same car with 10k-20k miles. That is an absolute _no brainer_.
Like the car you found, this one was stored in a climate controlled garage. Everything about the car is mint condition, showroom new. I get to enjoy a brand new car for 55c on the dollar.
Same thing can be said for mint condition, low mileage C5s. I would definitely pay a slight premium for a perfect car. _Slight_ is in the eye of the beholder, and the one opening their wallet... I get that.
01-17-2019, 09:04 PM
#29
Safety Car
In retrospect, I probably put too heavy of an emphasis on mileage when I bought my c5. It came into my possession with 45k on the odometer. It's got over 90k now, and will likely roll over 100k sometime this summer. But I'd bet the engine lasts a long time.
I think it's actually a better car than when I bought it. Just due to all of the parts I've replaced. But I know I couldn't get as much as I paid for it. And if you add up the maintenance, I'd probably only get half my money back. So, if I were to sell now, whoever bought it would get a better deal than when I bought it. Although cosmetically, it's not quite as nice as when I got it. 4 years of daily driving adds up. The paint has a few nicks and rock chips. The driver's seat has a tear. etc...
Lesson learned. When I eventually buy a used C7 or C8, I'm not going to worry so much about mileage, as long as it's reasonable.
I think it's actually a better car than when I bought it. Just due to all of the parts I've replaced. But I know I couldn't get as much as I paid for it. And if you add up the maintenance, I'd probably only get half my money back. So, if I were to sell now, whoever bought it would get a better deal than when I bought it. Although cosmetically, it's not quite as nice as when I got it. 4 years of daily driving adds up. The paint has a few nicks and rock chips. The driver's seat has a tear. etc...
Lesson learned. When I eventually buy a used C7 or C8, I'm not going to worry so much about mileage, as long as it's reasonable.
01-18-2019, 12:20 AM
#30
Instructor
I am sorry but that statement makes absolutely less than no sense. A car is an inanimate piece of machinery that has no way to know how many miles it was driven in the last hour much less the past year. They do not a develop a pattern of usage that when changed would add or detract from their use.
Like any other used car you purchase without an extensive service history, you should do a thorough inspection, change all the fluids, address the known historical problems attached to that particular model, and change the tires if out of date. Then, you should give thanks you can find and afford such a great vehicle and begin to enjoy it. Everything else is something somebody made up!
Like any other used car you purchase without an extensive service history, you should do a thorough inspection, change all the fluids, address the known historical problems attached to that particular model, and change the tires if out of date. Then, you should give thanks you can find and afford such a great vehicle and begin to enjoy it. Everything else is something somebody made up!
01-18-2019, 12:27 AM
#31
Instructor
In all honesty, I was just playing. It's a funny line in the movie.
I understand the concern of buying a "zero mile" car, but I also think it is way overblown... unless someone is _paying_ near original price for the car.
I'd definitely pay a small premium for an unmolested, next-to-new car, with perfect paint, interior, and no mechanical abuse, that had been stored properly.
I understand the concern of buying a "zero mile" car, but I also think it is way overblown... unless someone is _paying_ near original price for the car.
I'd definitely pay a small premium for an unmolested, next-to-new car, with perfect paint, interior, and no mechanical abuse, that had been stored properly.
01-18-2019, 08:27 AM
#32
My problem with the ultra low mileage C5s is the sellers seem to think they're worth a lot more than they actually are...I've been finding a quite a few '01 or newer base coupes for sale recently with under 20K miles and the sellers are asking over $20K for them, which is too much in my book...I can certainly understand paying somewhat of a premium for the low miles, but many sellers seem to think they are selling a collectable museum piece...
Last edited by grampi50; 01-18-2019 at 08:32 AM.
01-18-2019, 10:13 AM
#33
Advanced
Just my experience and I'm not a mechanic or Vette expert, but both very low mileage vehicles that I bought had a lot of problems. Although I wouldn't buy a vehicle with 100,000+ miles (just my personal prejudice), I would never buy an extremely low mileage vehicle again. YMMV. I bought my C5 with 55,000. Enough miles that the issues have hopefully been worked through, but few enough that I should get a couple of good years before I start running into repairs.
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Vettefanboii (08-01-2023)
01-18-2019, 01:15 PM
#35
Pro
Member Since: Dec 2017
Location: Carol Stream (Chicago suburbs) IL
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Q. How many miles are too few miles on a Corvette?
A. The miles reflected on the odometer.
These cars were designed, engineered and built to be driven. It's a shame so many sit in garages waiting for an owner who will use it. My 2001 fully optioned (save for the CD changer) manual convertible stickered for $52,630. In today's dollars equates to over $75,000.
Do the math- the C5 is a bargain. Old car? Yes. Obsolete? I don't think so. I've read articles on the forthcoming BMW Z4 and Toyota Supra. Looking at the specifications, it appears the C5 was the benchmark (similar curb weight, weight distribution, horsepower and torque).
PS- my car had +97,000 miles on it when I bought it in December of 2017. I drove it this morning (below freezing)- and have put over 10,000 miles on it since I bought it. Low miles, high miles- buy the car and keep it up.
A. The miles reflected on the odometer.
These cars were designed, engineered and built to be driven. It's a shame so many sit in garages waiting for an owner who will use it. My 2001 fully optioned (save for the CD changer) manual convertible stickered for $52,630. In today's dollars equates to over $75,000.
Do the math- the C5 is a bargain. Old car? Yes. Obsolete? I don't think so. I've read articles on the forthcoming BMW Z4 and Toyota Supra. Looking at the specifications, it appears the C5 was the benchmark (similar curb weight, weight distribution, horsepower and torque).
PS- my car had +97,000 miles on it when I bought it in December of 2017. I drove it this morning (below freezing)- and have put over 10,000 miles on it since I bought it. Low miles, high miles- buy the car and keep it up.
Last edited by wdcraig; 01-18-2019 at 01:23 PM. Reason: PS
03-06-2019, 07:28 PM
#37
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2002
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida
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The first 2 owners of my C5 put only 1,658 miles on it combined when I bought it in Feb 2006. Your car is about the same miles but in a bit more than twice the time. Mine was stored among many other vehicles in a heated air conditioned building so I wasn't concerned. Plus the owner provided service records and although the miles were low, the oil changes were annual and the dexcool and belts were changed just before I got it. As long as it was stored properly, not left sitting for months and been driven infrequently and brought up to temperature when it was driven, it should be fine. However, seventeen years is a long time and I would be prepared for some issues and would listen to Evil-Twin's advice and weigh it out. It is pretty exciting to find a brand new 2002 Z06 and I know that I would want to jump on it myself for the right price but make sure you can get the maintenance records. If it was sitting outside I would definitely pass. Good luck and nice find!
03-09-2019, 03:00 AM
#38
Melting Slicks
Since we live in the age of carfax/autocheck we don’t have to worry as much about odometer fraud. Even though I got mine earlier this year, I’ve grown to enjoy the thrill of the search and look at the classifieds regularly. My local craigslist has a 02 Z06 with under 1500 miles. Would you guys worry about the condition of a car that essentially averages less than 100 miles a year? Obviously the tires if original are bad, but what about everything else?
I bought my 04 in 2014 with 26k miles and shortly after buying it, the water pump gasket started leaking (previous owner barely drove the car). Other than that and dry rotted tires, that was it
But to each their own
03-09-2019, 07:42 AM
#39
Race Director
My 04 CE coupe had 8k on it when I bought it from the original owner 12 years ago. Has a little over 40k on it now
03-11-2019, 01:09 PM
#40
I bought 2004 coupe with 15,000 original miles. To me it’s just like a brand new car. I love it! The electrical system is perfect. I have cleaned and weather proofed all ground connections. So with having a cherry electrical system I hope to avoid all problems I see a lot of people had. I feel I have a car which will last a long time before I have to spend any big money to repair anything.