3rd Replacement Roof --- Delaminated Again
#41
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Lebowski
Damn, how'd you get that price? I'm getting close to the point where I might just suck it up and buy the transparent top, even though it goes against everything I believe in.
#42
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by gmoller
Boy, I'd like to be a fly on the wall where the engineering team working on this problem is.
If I'm correct, the plastic (SMC) top is adhesively bonded to the frame (Magnesium?). This represents a complex problem for adhesives, as the 2 differing materiels have vastly different coefficients of thermal expansion. Adhesive alone may not ever be enough. I believe they will have to reengineer the top panel to include screw locations where the top would be screwed to the frame solidly with a bead of sealer around the edges. This means a different mold for the plastic top and a different assembly procedure. This may take some real time, but it will be ultimately cheaper than multiple replacements of every top out there.
GM
If I'm correct, the plastic (SMC) top is adhesively bonded to the frame (Magnesium?). This represents a complex problem for adhesives, as the 2 differing materiels have vastly different coefficients of thermal expansion. Adhesive alone may not ever be enough. I believe they will have to reengineer the top panel to include screw locations where the top would be screwed to the frame solidly with a bead of sealer around the edges. This means a different mold for the plastic top and a different assembly procedure. This may take some real time, but it will be ultimately cheaper than multiple replacements of every top out there.
GM
#43
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Feb 2005
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But what about those of us that don't want a transparent top? In south TX in the summer, the last thing I want is sunlight coming through the roof. I just want the solid top to be safe and functional. I agree with the CTE statement made above - when exposed to temperature extremes, that will basically create an insurmountable problem for any adhesive.
#44
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Larry B.
Early 70's and back Corvettes had metal to fiberglass bond areas and in some places they used rivets and screws to assure a permanent bond. This is evident as dimples and impressions where the fasteners are as are bonding strip seams. Look at the nose areas and bonding strip seams on C3's and the mid year(63-67) C2's. On an unrestored car these are quite visable. Of course this would be totally unacceptable by today's standards. GM has a real problem here. The roof panels on my old 69 were not coming apart. I understand the problem with bonding dissimilar materials. However, C5's don't seem to have a problem... so the question is... Why fix something that isn't broken?. It looks like saving weight is more expensive than anyone thought. It is not a performance issue.. But it IS quickly becoming a PR issue. I don't get it. All of the developement that went into the C6 and then this happens. Sorry about the rant ...
Where's Dave Hill?
Saving weight in what way using the transparent top instead?
#45
Team Owner
Originally Posted by rockywoody
But what about those of us that don't want a transparent top? In south TX in the summer, the last thing I want is sunlight coming through the roof. I just want the solid top to be safe and functional. I agree with the CTE statement made above - when exposed to temperature extremes, that will basically create an insurmountable problem for any adhesive.
#46
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando FL
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Originally Posted by rockywoody
But what about those of us that don't want a transparent top? In south TX in the summer, the last thing I want is sunlight coming through the roof. I just want the solid top to be safe and functional. I agree with the CTE statement made above - when exposed to temperature extremes, that will basically create an insurmountable problem for any adhesive.
#47
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Lebowski
I live in FL and this is a big reason I went w/ painted in the first place (that was before I knew painted would fly off, of course), but do note that some companies (downsouthvettes I believe) make some pretty sharp looking liners for the transparent top that will solve the problem of light shining through and making the car unbearably hot.
#48
Le Mans Master
Another point about Lexan (clear) tops is that over the years they tend to become "crazed" and even a little discolored. They can crack or get scratched when stuck by a piece of debris (like a 10 lb fibreglas panel) and cannot be repaired.
#49
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by LS WON
Might be worth looking into for those in real hot climates or lots of sun. I know Eckler's and Mid-America sell them but I don't know if they are the same products.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...t=suction+cups
#50
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Oct 2005
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Originally Posted by Craigster05
Oh man, this is bad. I feel for you. They should at least be handing out glass replacements until they have a true fix.
Its only a matter of time until a class action suit gets underway.
Its only a matter of time until a class action suit gets underway.
Then we can roll in the $$$$$$.
The way I see it, GM made a choice to cut corners and hoped they would not get caught. Well they did get caught, and no they have to pay IMHO
#51
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Lebowski
#52
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Larry B.
Another point about Lexan (clear) tops is that over the years they tend to become "crazed" and even a little discolored. They can crack or get scratched when stuck by a piece of debris (like a 10 lb fibreglas panel) and cannot be repaired.
#55
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Thanks guys/gals for the emails, posts, and PM's. I have found out that I need to file the Lemon Law in New York as the car was billed and sold there. I have found out that GM closed my last complaint out and figured it was repaired because they replaced the roof. (wow, didnt I already have one replaced under warranty prior ??)
My local dealer Lou Bachrodt in Coconut Creek is becoming a real ball breaker. The Service Manager wont release a rental car unless I leave the Vette with them, ETA on new roof two weeks. So I should let some lot boy move the car around as he see's fit, I should allow a car with custom Iforged Wheels to sit unattended at night on lot, and I should basically drive around in some Neon until the painter and delivery specialist can both get OFF their asses and replace the roof. No priority status ....
And get this the dealer had the gall to tell the Customer Service Advisor at GM that it was a liability to allow me to keep the Vette in my garage. Locked and covered with my wife home almost all the time. The real liability is NOT giving a rental and allowing me to potentially drive it around till it falls off and kills or harms so unknowing person. GM and Chevy are going bankrupt for a reason ... they allow their dealers to make items worse.
My local dealer Lou Bachrodt in Coconut Creek is becoming a real ball breaker. The Service Manager wont release a rental car unless I leave the Vette with them, ETA on new roof two weeks. So I should let some lot boy move the car around as he see's fit, I should allow a car with custom Iforged Wheels to sit unattended at night on lot, and I should basically drive around in some Neon until the painter and delivery specialist can both get OFF their asses and replace the roof. No priority status ....
And get this the dealer had the gall to tell the Customer Service Advisor at GM that it was a liability to allow me to keep the Vette in my garage. Locked and covered with my wife home almost all the time. The real liability is NOT giving a rental and allowing me to potentially drive it around till it falls off and kills or harms so unknowing person. GM and Chevy are going bankrupt for a reason ... they allow their dealers to make items worse.
Last edited by Killrwheels@Autogeek; 06-11-2006 at 12:09 PM.
#57
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...t=delamination
heres my original post at 700 miles with nearly 13000+ visits to date. GM are you watching ????????????/
heres my original post at 700 miles with nearly 13000+ visits to date. GM are you watching ????????????/
#59
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by LS WON
Maybe it is best to keep car out of sun for long periods of time. Park in shade or in covered garage.
.....Unknown Author