Convertible roll over protection?
10-18-2007, 09:58 PM
#22
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As some of you know I am considering a Vette purchase and safety is paramount in my book. I'm interested in a coupe and I'm convinced that the coupe is pretty safe. I did not know about the convertible and that is why I asked. The absence of roll-over loops on the back of the seats is a major fault. There was a well publicized roll-over of a C6 coupe here in the Bay area a week or two ago (there were posts with pictures on this board) and although the coupe's top buckled a bit the driver was protected and apparently survived. I doubt he would have survived if driving a convertible.
The best protection is to avoid rollover situations. Realistically ... accidents happen but are rollover accidents all that common? And if it happens, do you really want to live forever? There are worse ways of dying. Sorry for being so cynical.
Last edited by mitchm11741; 10-18-2007 at 10:06 PM.
10-18-2007, 10:03 PM
#23
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I had an M roadster and the rollbar would have been useless. It's was a nice decorative touch. Not sure if the ones in the Audi or Porsche are really all that sturdy either. You want a sturdy rollbar, then you need to get a welded in cage. Better yet, get a coupe or a Saab.
I wouldn't want to rely of the Vette windshield frame to protect me. I'm amazed that the Vette convertible doesn't have integral rollover protection like BMW or Porsche or Audi.
10-18-2007, 10:11 PM
#24
Safety Car
[QUOTE=CH-Z51;1562368151]Don't use that pic of the white vette as the definitive answer. There were lots of other pics posted by the guy that did that. It is obvious, that while the calr flipped a time or two, it never impacted on the top or windshield frame. Luck of the draw on that one..
10-18-2007, 10:39 PM
#25
Tech Contributor
I'm leading this pack top down at Sebring. No bar. Call me crazy but I feel safer on the track than I do driving on I95.
10-18-2007, 11:03 PM
#26
For those that think those pop up bars in BMW or MB will protect you, think again. When is a rollover most likely to occur? The answer is not on the road, it's when you get off the road, on the grass or dirt. The car inherently is not going to roll on pavement but if the tires grab on a curb it could flip. Once you're upside down on grass those little bars will sink right into the dirt like they didn't exist. They're no safer than your vette. I have a vert and feel very safe. The car is amazingly stable and doesn't roll much to make you feel like it could flip. With that being said, I'm no idiot. If it flips it's luck of the draw.
10-19-2007, 12:04 AM
#27
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Under federal law, a car's roof must support 1.5 times the weight of the car. Anyone with some basic understanding of physics knows that a roof of that strength is still likely to deform in many, if not most, rollovers, as the impact forces will likely exceed that threshold. Convertibles do not have to meet this standard. (The standard might be raised to 2.5 times, soon.)
However, convertibles simply don't rollover very often. The Highway Loss Data Institute (which does studies for the insurance industry) says that convertibles just aren't involved in that many fatal rollovers.
The simple truth is that convertibles (including, obviously, Vettes) have low centers of gravity which reduce the likelihood of rollovers. Unless you knowingly drive way too fast for conditions on mountain roads, you probably don't need to worry too much about rollover protection in a convertible Vette. If you're really gonna worry about this minimal increase in risk, you ought to invest in an armored car.
However, convertibles simply don't rollover very often. The Highway Loss Data Institute (which does studies for the insurance industry) says that convertibles just aren't involved in that many fatal rollovers.
The simple truth is that convertibles (including, obviously, Vettes) have low centers of gravity which reduce the likelihood of rollovers. Unless you knowingly drive way too fast for conditions on mountain roads, you probably don't need to worry too much about rollover protection in a convertible Vette. If you're really gonna worry about this minimal increase in risk, you ought to invest in an armored car.
10-19-2007, 12:21 AM
#28
Melting Slicks
10-19-2007, 01:51 AM
#29
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If safety is truly "paramount" you would not be looking at a vette. If the statement is hyperbole and you are only actually "concerned" about the safety factor, then the fact that you are asking the question probably means you should go with a coupe -- or maybe even a Z06 since it has a fixed hard top -- just go easy on the pedal
And yes, safety should be paramount, or you may not live long enough to enjoy it.
At this point I consider the C6 coupe pretty safe (even though it has ways to improve). The convertible is not as safe as it should be. You can be so blind and deny it but in a roll over good luck.
10-19-2007, 02:05 AM
#30
Drifting
If you are safety concious to the point of worrying about rollover on a vert with such a low Cg then I cant see you putting yourself in a situation that would induce a rollover... and if you do manage to roll it over it will be at such a speed and force I doubt a roll bar will help you at all.......
I couldnt help but notice the irony on the white vert crash pic: license place read ENVY...
I couldnt help but notice the irony on the white vert crash pic: license place read ENVY...
10-19-2007, 02:15 AM
#31
Melting Slicks
Too bad you only read the first sentence of my post...
And yes, safety should be paramount, or you may not live long enough to enjoy it.
At this point I consider the C6 coupe pretty safe (even though it has ways to improve). The convertible is not as safe as it should be. You can be so blind and deny it but in a roll over good luck.
And yes, safety should be paramount, or you may not live long enough to enjoy it.
At this point I consider the C6 coupe pretty safe (even though it has ways to improve). The convertible is not as safe as it should be. You can be so blind and deny it but in a roll over good luck.
10-19-2007, 07:22 AM
#32
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Although my convertible did not rollover when it got totaled, it took a big hit to the LH "A" pillar. It didn't fold back and showed little deflection. Seems plenty strong to me.
If "safety is paramount", buy a Volvo.
If "safety is paramount", buy a Volvo.
10-19-2007, 08:50 AM
#34
Race Director
Most of the "rollover hoops" are decorative only, especially the aftermarket variety being sold for C5s and C6s. True roll hoops or rollbars are made of high strength steel tubing that's bolted and/or welded to the frame of the vehicle.
Buying any convertible comes with the risk of rollover protection. Then again, you may not want to drive at all since the next guy coming toward you MAY cross the centerline and ruin your life. Life is short; do what you like, or, drive a Hummer.
Buying any convertible comes with the risk of rollover protection. Then again, you may not want to drive at all since the next guy coming toward you MAY cross the centerline and ruin your life. Life is short; do what you like, or, drive a Hummer.
10-19-2007, 09:02 AM
#35
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10-19-2007, 09:07 AM
#36
Team Owner
While the car does meet federal standards, please allow me to say this. I've been a coroner for 25 years now and when you roll a car, you are rolling the dice with your life. I have seen people walk away, I have cut seatbelts to remove rollover victims, I have removed unbelted people from beneath the car, and I have found rollover victims who were unbelted as far as 40 yards away from the automobile. I have seen these inconsistencies with pickup trucks, sedans, tractor trailors, and convertibles. When you roll over at any speed, you just can't predict the outcome. I would say, if there is any way around it, DON'T ROLL YOUR VEHICLE. Nothing makes you bulletproof. Just my
$.02. (I have a vert).
$.02. (I have a vert).
In seriousness - thanks for sharing, I know you are sending a good message about being careful.
10-19-2007, 12:19 PM
#38
Tech Contributor
http://safemotorsports.com/
Phil Steinberg is the President and is a great guy. No restrictive rules. There are a bunch of us from the Forum that go to Safe events. Red Gump lives in Sebring and always puts on the dog for us with BBQ, etc. Safe is absolutely a great group. Basically pay your money and run when you want all day long if you and your car can do it. No run groups but fast cars and slow cars tend to natually group together. At a big track like Sebring most of the time I never see another car out there unless I'm racing a bud. Cool members, never been hassled by anyone on my butt or driving too aggressively. Cars ranging from miatas to Ferraris and even an old Winston Cup road race car.
No events left for 2007 but keep you eyes peeled on the website for the 2008 schedule. Hope to see you there.
Last edited by Joe_G; 10-19-2007 at 12:26 PM.
10-19-2007, 12:30 PM
#39
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Here you go.
http://safemotorsports.com/
Phil Steinberg is the President and is a great guy. No restrictive rules. There are a bunch of us from the Forum that go to Safe events. Red Gump lives in Sebring and always puts on the dog for us with BBQ, etc. Safe is absolutely a great group. Basically pay your money and run when you want all day long if you and your car can do it. No run groups but fast cars and slow cars tend to natually group together. At a big track like Sebring most of the time I never see another car out there unless I'm racing a bud. Cool members, never been hassled by anyone on my butt or driving too aggressively. Cars ranging from miatas to Ferraris and even an old Winston Cup road race car.
No events left for 2007 but keep you eyes peeled on the website for the 2008 schedule. Hope to see you guy there.
http://safemotorsports.com/
Phil Steinberg is the President and is a great guy. No restrictive rules. There are a bunch of us from the Forum that go to Safe events. Red Gump lives in Sebring and always puts on the dog for us with BBQ, etc. Safe is absolutely a great group. Basically pay your money and run when you want all day long if you and your car can do it. No run groups but fast cars and slow cars tend to natually group together. At a big track like Sebring most of the time I never see another car out there unless I'm racing a bud. Cool members, never been hassled by anyone on my butt or driving too aggressively. Cars ranging from miatas to Ferraris and even an old Winston Cup road race car.
No events left for 2007 but keep you eyes peeled on the website for the 2008 schedule. Hope to see you guy there.
It's a little far for me since I'm in Memphis most of the time for now. But the prices look good.
The last time I ran at Barber Motorsports Park (a fellow I know who used to work at Panoz Racing School rented the track for the weekend) we had to pay $400 for a day, $750 for two days. But Barber is one of the most expensive tracks to rent, or has been.
Last time I ran at Road Atlanta, I think it was $225 per car, but that was several years ago.
10-19-2007, 12:33 PM
#40
Team Owner
I race with two organizations that require roll bars (not cosmetic ones) for cars that exceed 140MPH.
The only exception is for the Corvette. I can't cite the research they've done, but they will allow Corvette coupes to run up to 168MPH without the addition of a roll bar due to the increased strength of the factory integrated rollover protection offered by the B pillar.
That B pillar in a coupe is very strong. I've only seen one that rolled hard at speed, and the B pillar was completely intact. The car had rolled well in excess of 100mph.
Both organizations require 5 or 6 point harnesses above 110mph, however- Corvettes included.
The only exception is for the Corvette. I can't cite the research they've done, but they will allow Corvette coupes to run up to 168MPH without the addition of a roll bar due to the increased strength of the factory integrated rollover protection offered by the B pillar.
That B pillar in a coupe is very strong. I've only seen one that rolled hard at speed, and the B pillar was completely intact. The car had rolled well in excess of 100mph.
Both organizations require 5 or 6 point harnesses above 110mph, however- Corvettes included.
