think the Vette will get direct injection?
06-25-2008, 12:44 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
think the Vette will get direct injection?
a lot of domestic makes are going (or at least investigating) direct injection. there are gains in hp and fuel savings. can you imagine an ls3 w/ DI? 436+10hp and 28mph+4 or 5 mpg? i'm surprised it didnt happen w/ the ls3. At this point, i dont think it will happen until the c7 unless there is a dramatic delay in c7 development due to new cafe standards (
). so what are your thoughts? (there's a cts engine w/ DI)
here's a quote from an old autoblog article:
). so what are your thoughts? (there's a cts engine w/ DI)here's a quote from an old autoblog article:
General Motors is expanding the use of direct fuel injection technology on it's engines, with the next recipient being the 3.6L V-6 that's used in the 2008 Cadillac CTS. The 2008 version of the engine is expected to get a fuel efficiency increase of about three percent while at the same time getting a power bump from 255hp to 300hp putting in on par with the 4.6L Northstar V-8.
06-25-2008, 12:58 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
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I don't think we're going to see the C7 for at least another 4 years if ever! With GM's financial woes it's hard to believe they are willing to spend hundreds of millions on a new C7. Having said that I believe we might however see DI in 09. It could help with CAFE standards and it's not that expensive to modify the LS3 to use DI...
06-25-2008, 01:02 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
yeah, thats what i was thinking. this whole domestic situation is really sad. in my home, we only buy domestics so it pains us to see this.
i agree, there is a chance to see DI in a c6, but it is dependent upon CAFE and c7 delays.
only downside is it'll add some more clickity clack noises to the Vette (consumer sowing machine to commercial sowing machine lol)
i agree, there is a chance to see DI in a c6, but it is dependent upon CAFE and c7 delays.
only downside is it'll add some more clickity clack noises to the Vette (consumer sowing machine to commercial sowing machine lol)
06-25-2008, 01:18 PM
#6
Race Director
I believe we'll see DI within a year on the NA LS engines, unless there are tech hurdles. It's benefits to power and economy simply cannot be ignored. On the Caddy, the same 3.6L engine makes 258HP without DI, and 304 with it, plus 15% better fuel economy. If you apply those same improvements to the existing 436HP LS3, you get 500HP and Hwy fuel economy would increase from 26MPG to 29MPG. It's a win-win and a no-brainer.
Ditto on the LS7, if they keep it around.
Ditto on the LS7, if they keep it around.
06-25-2008, 01:27 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
DI is a technology pioneered by Audi.
it involves injection of the fuel in the actual cylinder and not above.
here's a wiki article for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection
it involves injection of the fuel in the actual cylinder and not above.
here's a wiki article for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection
06-25-2008, 01:27 PM
#10
Race Director
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C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
I've got the DI V6 in my STS. At 302 HP from 3.6L it's 20% more HP per CI than my LS3. Cadillac gained about 20% more HP when they made the switch, so if the LS3 can do likewise the results would be about 520HP.
However, the V6 is a 24V motor and the LS3 only 16, so maybe only a 10% (40HP) gain. I'd suspect the Z06 would be the first to get it because that didn't get a recent HP increase.
For a 4000# car that's not specifically targeting performance, it moves surprisingly good. The fuel mileage averages around 25 overall, which is slightly better than my Vette, but then again the numbers would reverse if my wife and I traded cars.
However, the V6 is a 24V motor and the LS3 only 16, so maybe only a 10% (40HP) gain. I'd suspect the Z06 would be the first to get it because that didn't get a recent HP increase.For a 4000# car that's not specifically targeting performance, it moves surprisingly good. The fuel mileage averages around 25 overall, which is slightly better than my Vette, but then again the numbers would reverse if my wife and I traded cars.
06-25-2008, 02:24 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
The two factors currently driving automotive engine development are CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) mandates and Federal Emissions requirements. I think we will see direct injection in the next few years to help satisfy both CAFE and emissions.
06-25-2008, 03:38 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
06-25-2008, 04:18 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
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The problem likely is not "can we do it" but "when can we get the funds to do it." This will require a *significant* (and expensive) redesign of the heads.
Right now you have 3 things taking up space in the combustion chamber roof -- intake valve head, exhaust valve head, and spark plug tip. GM will have to move "stuff" around quite a bit to make room for the injector -- and not just room for the injector tip, but also room above the combustion chamber for the injector body, likely meaning significant rearrangment of the valve train (rockers, bases, etc.).
Nonetheless, I expect we'll see DI sooner rather than later, as the benefits will ultimately outweigh the costs.
Right now you have 3 things taking up space in the combustion chamber roof -- intake valve head, exhaust valve head, and spark plug tip. GM will have to move "stuff" around quite a bit to make room for the injector -- and not just room for the injector tip, but also room above the combustion chamber for the injector body, likely meaning significant rearrangment of the valve train (rockers, bases, etc.).
Nonetheless, I expect we'll see DI sooner rather than later, as the benefits will ultimately outweigh the costs.
06-25-2008, 04:21 PM
#16
Drifting
The problem likely is not "can we do it" but "when can we get the funds to do it." This will require a *significant* (and expensive) redesign of the heads.
Right now you have 3 things taking up space in the combustion chamber roof -- intake valve head, exhaust valve head, and spark plug tip. GM will have to move "stuff" around quite a bit to make room for the injector -- and not just room for the injector tip, but also room above the combustion chamber for the injector body, likely meaning significant rearrangment of the valve train (rockers, bases, etc.).
Nonetheless, I expect we'll see DI sooner rather than later, as the benefits will ultimately outweigh the costs.
Right now you have 3 things taking up space in the combustion chamber roof -- intake valve head, exhaust valve head, and spark plug tip. GM will have to move "stuff" around quite a bit to make room for the injector -- and not just room for the injector tip, but also room above the combustion chamber for the injector body, likely meaning significant rearrangment of the valve train (rockers, bases, etc.).
Nonetheless, I expect we'll see DI sooner rather than later, as the benefits will ultimately outweigh the costs.
06-25-2008, 05:14 PM
#17
Pro
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One of our forum members told me about a year ago they were working on DI for corvette. He is an engineer for gm and he was at an HPDE at Sebring! He mentioned significant mpg and hp gains just like the other comments have mentioned. I wont say his name so he doesnt get bombarded with questions but you can usually find him in the road race section. Nice guy and gave me good tips on brakes.
06-25-2008, 05:35 PM
#18
Safety Car
My guess is the next series of power plants from all the auto makers will offer this source of injectors, as they provide better fuel economy as well as power.
06-25-2008, 05:37 PM
#19
Drifting
Thread Starter
One of our forum members told me about a year ago they were working on DI for corvette. He is an engineer for gm and he was at an HPDE at Sebring! He mentioned significant mpg and hp gains just like the other comments have mentioned. I wont say his name so he doesnt get bombarded with questions but you can usually find him in the road race section. Nice guy and gave me good tips on brakes.
06-25-2008, 06:25 PM
#20
Race Director
According to my source @ GM (whom I will not give a name,) Direct Injection is currently being evaluated for the C7 platform. Yes, efficiency is up also.
"Displacement-on-Demand" isn't ruled out either.
"Displacement-on-Demand" isn't ruled out either.