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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 12:53 PM
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Default Alignment issue?

I'm at 13K miles on the stock (Z51) runflats. At about 5K miles I noticed inner front tire wear being greater than outer. I took it back to the dealer who check an adjusted the alignment slightly. They said it was in spec but on the outer edge of the spec. I believe they know what they are doing. They are the biggest Chevy dealer in the US and sell a lot of Corvettes. Plus, a very good friend is associated with the dealership, so they treat me well. (I say this because I really don't think this is a case of incompetence or someone telling me they did something when they didn't.).

While I'm not happy to have to replace my stocks at 13K miles, I'm wondering if this is how the alignment is designed? I thought I'd read here that a good alignment shop can align for "minimum wear". If so, does this have a noticeable effect on handling? I don't race...this is a DD 'vert....but I don't want to mess up the handling....

Also, I need to replace the rubber ASAP. I'm thinking I should get another alignment with the original tires on so the shop can see my wear concern. Is this a good, bad or irrelevant idea?

Lastly, for anyone in the North Dallas area....I was told once that there was a shop in McKinney that did a very good job of alignment. Anyone know what shop it is? Anyone in the area have suggestions on another location?

Thanks all
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 12:58 PM
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Same for me!!?? I got it aligned at 3000 & still got inner tire wear at 14000, almost bald inner edge? They must set it up to run like a nascar racer , to be at that camber to handle the hard turning. I will tell the next align guy to make this a softer setting because I don't drive that way!
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 01:18 PM
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i was told by my local gm service mgr that i should get an alignment between 8k and 10k,,, that way the car has time to "settle" in as he called it,,, im at 8700 miles and will be doing mine soon,, later rj
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 02:06 PM
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The standard "correct" alignment will tend to wear the inside of the front tires. This is especially apparent with the soft SC tires that come with the Z51 package. On my 2005, my front tires were showing significant inside front wear at 10,000 miles. And yes, I had my car's alignment checked and adjusted.

I don't have enough miles on my 2009 yet to see if I'll have the same problem.
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 03:13 PM
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10000 miles on mine Z51 option and fronts are wearing evenly, i had the car realigned at 2000 miles because of it pulling to the right.
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 03:32 PM
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The '07 I just bought has about 18K on it. I had alignment done because I noticed when backing up and the wheel is hard over, the front tires scuffed (you could hear them slip even on a dry road). Caster and camber were ok but toe-in was off by quite a bit. All seemed ok after that.

But.....

2 days later it rained and I noticed even making a 90 degree turn (like into a parking space) caused front tire slippage. I was going to take the car back to have the alignment checked again when we were hit with snow and ice. Now that will wait until things clear.
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 03:45 PM
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Factory alignment specs are not for maximum tire wear, they are for handling.
You can be within factory specs on camber and will get unacceptable inside wear for street driving.
If you want reasonable tire wear, with the wide tires that come on Corvettes, you need to have no more than zero to 1/8 degree negative camber on the front.
The factory specs on my C5 are -.7 deg. +/- .5 deg., so you could have as much as -1.2 deg. camber.
You need to tell the alignment shop what settings you want, not just ask them to check if it is within factory specs.

Last edited by TEXHAWK0; Dec 16, 2008 at 03:48 PM.
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TEXHAWK0
Factory alignment specs are not for maximum tire wear, they are for handling.
You can be within factory specs on camber and will get unacceptable inside wear for street driving.
If you want reasonable tire wear, with the wide tires that come on Corvettes, you need to have no more than zero to 1/8 degree negative camber on the front.
The factory specs on my C5 are -.7 deg. +/- .5 deg., so you could have as much as -1.2 deg. camber.
You need to tell the alignment shop what settings you want, not just ask them to check if it is within factory specs.
Exactly,, well said!
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TEXHAWK0
Factory alignment specs are not for maximum tire wear, they are for handling.
You can be within factory specs on camber and will get unacceptable inside wear for street driving.
If you want reasonable tire wear, with the wide tires that come on Corvettes, you need to have no more than zero to 1/8 degree negative camber on the front.
The factory specs on my C5 are -.7 deg. +/- .5 deg., so you could have as much as -1.2 deg. camber.
You need to tell the alignment shop what settings you want, not just ask them to check if it is within factory specs.
And that is the truth!!!
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 05:48 PM
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The "Spec" range is so broad that being on the edge would be considered out of alignment to most who care about those things. Not correcting to the center of the spec is just lazy IMO..though technically they didn't have to and probably didn't want to go to the trouble if you were asking for this to be done for free.. Stock Camber and Toe will result in good wear patterns. Toe is usually the culprit that scubs those inner treads off, Not camber..Find a good performance alignment shop and PAY to have it done right..

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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by KenHorse
The '07 I just bought has about 18K on it. I had alignment done because I noticed when backing up and the wheel is hard over, the front tires scuffed (you could hear them slip even on a dry road). Caster and camber were ok but toe-in was off by quite a bit. All seemed ok after that.

But.....

2 days later it rained and I noticed even making a 90 degree turn (like into a parking space) caused front tire slippage. I was going to take the car back to have the alignment checked again when we were hit with snow and ice. Now that will wait until things clear.
The front tires are nearly 10 inches wide. The steering angles for no slippage in a turn of the inside and outside edges of the tire will differ because they are describing circles of different radi. But the angles can't differ, because the tire is all one piece. So one edge or the other will have to scoot or the tire will be torn apart. This stick-slip scoot scoot scoot is particularly noticeable in sharp low speed turns, and can be more noticeable on some surfaces than others. But it is always there.

This is similar to the issue between front tires that Ackerman steering is designed to prevent, but Ackerman angles don't help between the edges of a single tire because it is all of a piece and its two edges can't rotate at different speeds. In other words, this is the nature of the beast with wide front tires. The edge of the tire describing the larger radius circle is always going to slip. You can't align this out.
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TEXHAWK0
Factory alignment specs are not for maximum tire wear, they are for handling.
You can be within factory specs on camber and will get unacceptable inside wear for street driving.
If you want reasonable tire wear, with the wide tires that come on Corvettes, you need to have no more than zero to 1/8 degree negative camber on the front.
The factory specs on my C5 are -.7 deg. +/- .5 deg., so you could have as much as -1.2 deg. camber.
You need to tell the alignment shop what settings you want, not just ask them to check if it is within factory specs.
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by shopdog
The front tires are nearly 10 inches wide. The steering angles for no slippage in a turn of the inside and outside edges of the tire will differ because they are describing circles of different radi. But the angles can't differ, because the tire is all one piece. So one edge or the other will have to scoot or the tire will be torn apart. This stick-slip scoot scoot scoot is particularly noticeable in sharp low speed turns, and can be more noticeable on some surfaces than others. But it is always there.

This is similar to the issue between front tires that Ackerman steering is designed to prevent, but Ackerman angles don't help between the edges of a single tire because it is all of a piece and its two edges can't rotate at different speeds. In other words, this is the nature of the beast with wide front tires. The edge of the tire describing the larger radius circle is always going to slip. You can't align this out.
well said shopdog!!
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by shopdog
The front tires are nearly 10 inches wide. The steering angles for no slippage in a turn of the inside and outside edges of the tire will differ because they are describing circles of different radi. But the angles can't differ, because the tire is all one piece. So one edge or the other will have to scoot or the tire will be torn apart. This stick-slip scoot scoot scoot is particularly noticeable in sharp low speed turns, and can be more noticeable on some surfaces than others. But it is always there.

This is similar to the issue between front tires that Ackerman steering is designed to prevent, but Ackerman angles don't help between the edges of a single tire because it is all of a piece and its two edges can't rotate at different speeds. In other words, this is the nature of the beast with wide front tires. The edge of the tire describing the larger radius circle is always going to slip. You can't align this out.
Ineresting and informative.

And while you can't design it out, you can have your tires realigned EARLY and to the middle of the specs (for minimum wear). See Modshack post. By waiting until 7K, 8K, or 13K miles, your tire wear is compromised to the point of not being extended to any appreciable degree, imo.

I am at just under 15K miles for Z51 suspension and even wear across the tires. Yes, I had it realigned at about 2K miles.

And I would recommend you go to a decent shop WHEN you get your new tires to be mounted at the same time.
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Modshack
The "Spec" range is so broad that being on the edge would be considered out of alignment to most who care about those things. Not correcting to the center of the spec is just lazy IMO..though technically they didn't have to and probably didn't want to go to the trouble if you were asking for this to be done for free.. Stock Camber and Toe will result in good wear patterns. Toe is usually the culprit that scubs those inner treads off, Not camber..Find a good performance alignment shop and PAY to have it done right..

heres a good post with the proper settings numbers, the +or- thing is where you have alot of problems/issues, IMO. i mean .6 + or - .6 is too much same with the toe. Your ride could be at -1.6 camber (F4A suspension) and -.10 toe each front wheel and be in specs. Specs are for showing a customer if they need an alignment but the "setting reading" (especially on a vette) needs to be right on the number. They are VERY easy to align and no + or - should be acceptable, IMO. if they give you any crap just use someone else. alignments are a very easy service on a vette. Once the machine is setup a few turns here and there and your done. Been doing alignments for years and its really not to tough you just need someone who cares. be safe,paul
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TEXHAWK0
Factory alignment specs are not for maximum tire wear, they are for handling.
You can be within factory specs on camber and will get unacceptable inside wear for street driving.
If you want reasonable tire wear, with the wide tires that come on Corvettes, you need to have no more than zero to 1/8 degree negative camber on the front.
The factory specs on my C5 are -.7 deg. +/- .5 deg., so you could have as much as -1.2 deg. camber.
You need to tell the alignment shop what settings you want, not just ask them to check if it is within factory specs.
On my c5 I had the same problem with uneven tire wear and after checking the alignment they told me it was within specs. I had to INSIST they change it.....which they did. Dimmitt Chevy in Clearwater while I was there visiting my daughter. So far my c6 Vert with 6000 miles, my tires "look" ok.
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 06:10 PM
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Thanks....

Paul, so how do I find a good one? I called a couple of places...seems like the price is about $100 but I don't know who is good and who isn't....

Anyone in the North Dallas area have experience with any shops that actually care and will do a good job?
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Old Dec 16, 2008 | 06:12 PM
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Shoot, if you can't find a place call either Lou Gigliotti's shop (if they can't do it ask them who can) or 21st Cent. Muscle Cars.
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Old Dec 17, 2008 | 08:50 AM
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TTT

still looking for a North Dallas - Frisco - McKinney shop to do a quality alignment....

Thanks
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Old Dec 17, 2008 | 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by shopdog
The front tires are nearly 10 inches wide. The steering angles for no slippage in a turn of the inside and outside edges of the tire will differ because they are describing circles of different radi. But the angles can't differ, because the tire is all one piece. So one edge or the other will have to scoot or the tire will be torn apart. This stick-slip scoot scoot scoot is particularly noticeable in sharp low speed turns, and can be more noticeable on some surfaces than others. But it is always there.

This is similar to the issue between front tires that Ackerman steering is designed to prevent, but Ackerman angles don't help between the edges of a single tire because it is all of a piece and its two edges can't rotate at different speeds. In other words, this is the nature of the beast with wide front tires. The edge of the tire describing the larger radius circle is always going to slip. You can't align this out.
This explains the "scalloping" of the tire on the inside or outside edges. One of our club members with a Z06 had the entire inside edge of the tire worn down to the radial belt. He wasn't aware of the wear until we pointed it out on a run. Needless to say, he was at the tire shop that next morning.

Last edited by Vettlldo; Dec 17, 2008 at 09:25 AM.
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