VettedCandidate

I just have to laugh at threads like this. People who think they know something postulating about market conditions nobody can predict.

Guys, the market (as GM or anyone in the car biz can predict it) just ain't there right now. Everything is short term, reactionary and chaotic. Nobody is selling many cars right now. Toyota isn't...nobody is. Where GM is right now, where it is going, where it will end up and how that relates to the Corvette OR BG is pure speculation. None of us knows anything about what will really happen except maybe a few of whoever is left over at GM.

shopdog

Among that former group were men like Harley Earl, Zora Duntov, and Bill Mitchell who presided over the glory years at GM when a Corvette cost $2771. Among the latter are people like Jack Smith, Bob Lutz, and Rick Wagoner who drove the price of a Corvette to $50k while running the company down to a $1.2 billion remnant hanging on to the government's coattails for dear life. 95% of the company's value just gone under the hand of those who would follow that "second path". Meanwhile, only a few rich old men can dip into their retirement savings deeply enough to buy one of the few grossly overpriced Corvettes being produced (while they were still being produced). In other words, the snobby approach of pricing the average American out of the market is a blatant failure, for the company, and for Americans.

jschindler

I REALLY disagree with you on your rants about the Corvette becoming more expensive and out of reach for more folks. I think you need to do more homework on what the average salary was 40 or 50 years ago compared to what a Corvette sold for compared to today.

Your statement that "only a few rich old men can dip into their retirement savings deeply enough to buy one of the few grossly overpriced Corvettes being produced" is just not right.

I know what my father made in the '60s - and he had a nice middle management job with a big company. And I know what I make today in a similar job. If I compare that to what a Corvette costs then and now, it's almost exactly the same percent of our income.

Of all the friends I have that own Corvette - none of us are what I'd call "old rich men". Yes, we have above average incomes - but we are all pretty much just working stiffs who are pretty typical upper middle class folks.

AORoads

Maybe so, maybe none of us know anything about what's going to happen to GM. And GM will proceed ahead in fine condition. Do you believe that?

If nothing else, some interesting stats have come out on this and other threads, not least of which is the actual production figures for Corvettes in model year '09, the next lowest number in Corvette's 50+ year history. That's not guesstimation.

And neither is the belief that at some point, the factory and thus the product may not be worth producing. True, we don't know what that dollar point is.

Nor is the fact that as it stands now, the company as a whole is worth a whole lot less than it was. So much less, that it needs a very large loan to continue operations. That's operations, not funding for some pie in the sky project.

All the economists, almost all the corporations and all the financial types got it wrong, one way or the other even Warren Buffett. And none of them know when this bad economy is going to turn the corner. Even when it does, is it a straight line up? Do you think that's the way it's going to go?

Those that have huge cash reserves will, and are surviving. The guy closest to the line at Bowling Green, the union leader, said they're all worried. The 10,000 or so salaried workers being forced out worldwide, have big worries. That's not a guesstimate. The plant is closed, and has been for two months. The 10,000 are getting their pink slips now.

How this all relates to the Corvette which is a very small part of GM may be a guess. But the facts are not in question, just the outcome and well-being going forward of the company.

Vetteinplano

Every Computer store is in trouble, (Circuit City, Conns, Best Buy) most retailers are in trouble (Mervins, Nordstroms, Sears, KMart, Steinmart), most appliance companies, furniture stores, etc....are all failing. Big Malls are going bankrupt.

Walmart will survive because they are the lowest priced retailer. They've trained us well.

If you can't make a profit, you can't stay in business. Open the WSJ financial section................

Rons65

No one really knows for sure right now, but my 2 cents is I wonder about the Z06 and ZR1 moving forward. I could see GM continuing building the C6 Cpe/Conv in various modes, but the extra costs for hand assembling the LS7 motors, cost for the alum frames, etc, etc may be a way for them to cut back. With that said, I bought a new 09 Cyper Gray 2LZ Z06 with Nav last month below GMS at my local dealer - I wanted a museum delivery, but did not want to take the chance and the one at the local dealer was in the back, not detailed with 4 miles on it. I stood there while they detailed and made sure everything was good to go. I love this car and I was able to pay cash for the difference of my trade in. So life is good and in my opinion, a 'bird in the hand' is better than waiting for the future.

Good information on this post. Something for everyone to think about!

Ron

AutoCutter

The country is in trouble as is GM; however, any situation can be made far worse than it is by affecting a chicken little attitude.

Anyway, if credit is too expensive, not available, or even undesirable then vehicles like the Corvette will fall away as demand goes away. Personally, I think the world is going to change in the next few years in ways that will make the discussion of Bowling Green kinda rhetorical.

jschindler

Okay, I get that a lot of businesses are in trouble - but I don't see how you can relate that to their pricing practices. We are in uncharted waters as far as the economy is concerned. A lot of businesses are going to fail by no fault of their own. There simply is not enough business to go around.

Yes, Walmart will probably survive. And if you enjoy their business model, good for you. Personally, I'd rather pay a 10% premium than to fight through the madhouse that Wal Mart is.

defender90

That's what happened in the 1930's.

And look what happened!

Patman

I agree with Jim here, with new Corvettes selling in the low 40s it's very much within the reach of younger people. In fact I see a lot of posts from people on this forum that are in their early 20s and have brand new Corvettes. The monthly payments on a 40k car, especially with low interest financing, are well within reach of the average person making a decent salary, they don't have to be super rich at all.

And when you consider what you get for your $40k, the new Corvette is an amazing bargain! I don't think there is another car available out there right now for anywhere near this price that offers the same level of performance or better. You'd need to spend tens of thousands more. GM has done an amazing job at keeping the Corvette affordable to the average person while still offering supercar levels of performance. And one thing the Corvette offers that much of it's competition doesn't, is the reliability and comfort to use these cars as daily drivers too! That's what I love about the Corvette so much, it's something you can use every day and not have to worry that it's going to leave you stranded or cost you a fortune in repairs.

shopdog

The big department stores are hurting because they've tried to play us for fools one time too many. When I was growing up, my family would shop from the Sears catalog, and on rare occasions would go to town to shop at JC Penney. But Sears abandoned the catalog in a push to become upscale, and Penney tried to become some hoity-toity boutique. Their rag prices became way out of line with the realities of the real world. Thank God for Walmart. They came in with pricing that wasn't an insult. You don't feel as if you are being ripped off when you deal with them.

Not all computer stores are in trouble. Microcenter and Fry's seem to still be doing well, and internet based companies like Tiger Direct seem to be thriving. Stand alone appliance stores are virtually a thing of the past, driven out of business by stores like Lowes and the Home Depot, who are selling appliances at fair prices. People have woken up to the gouging, the boutiquing, the screwing that they were getting from the high price places. They want value for their money.

Well, at least some people have woken up. There are still some people posting here who would have the retailers raise prices so they can feel good about paying too much for what they buy. It is a status thing to them to pay far more than something is worth simply so they can flaunt the fact that they paid too much. It separates them from the "common" people.

Marina Blue

My first car was a 1967 Chevelle that I paid $2535 for right before the '68s began production. That price was deeply discounted as the factory was no longer taking orders for the 1967 model year. My only choice was from dealer inventory. Base price for a '67 Corvette Coupe was $4388. Mulitiplying both of those figures by 10 comes up with prices very close to what an equivalent car would cost today. I think Corvette has kept the same price relationship with other cars over the last 42 years. I realize your $2771 figure comes from 1954 so you must be a lot older than me shopdog. I was only 9 in '54 so my car life began when I bought that Malibu Coupe in 1967.

I started my first full-time job that year at a beginning salary of $5,800. That is a little higher than an equivalent starting salary today so I would say a young guy out of college would now have a more difficult time buying a new car. However, today's cars are loaded up with more basic features and must comply with CAFE and safety regulations. I had to manually roll down windows and lock the doors in my old '67. The brakes didn't stop the car worth a da-m, which almost got me killed. Today's cars are so much better and as a result they cost more in comparison.

Dick4295

Amen!!!

Mark Little

jschindler

Once again, I think you are over simplifying the situation. People have not so much "woken up" to anything. The big box stores, which I happen to buy a tremendous amount from, have simply come up with more cost effective channels to market.

But there have been some serious downsides to that. They, along with Walmart and some other large stores have gone overboard beating their suppliers up for lower prices. To the point that if you buy a Lawnboy mower from Home Depot, it will not have the same quality that a Lawnboy did 20 years ago. I know this by first hand experience. Same goes for many other products.

Have you bought a 40# bag of dog food lately? Better go look at the bag and see if you really bought 40 lbs. Probably bought 37.5 lbs.

Do some of us pay a premium over Walmart and other stores? Yep. But not to act like I'm too good to go there. I still do go there for some purchases. But generally speaking, I simply can't stand the shopping experience there and I'm willing to pay a premium for better service at other stores (typically Target). I'll never accept that there is any disgrace in that. At the same time, I don't look down on anyone who does shop there. My wife and I are both very frugal in most respects and we could care less about name brands.

What I find a bit interesting in your posts on this thread is that you represent yourself as being a "common man" who is not of the upper class persuation while at the same time complaining that only rich folks can afford a Corvette these days. Which one are you?

shopdog

The Illuminati know.
























(Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Da Shadow do! Da Shadow do!)

426 Hemi

Yep, used to get all my clothes at JC Penneys:

shopdog

Why I'm just as common as dirt. Born poor. Grew up on a hard scrabble farm without two cents to rub together. Got a scholarship to a top engineering school, and made a quite comfortable living since. But I remember my roots. People tell me I'm so tight I squeak, that I squeeze a nickel so hard the Indian winds up riding the buffalo. People who know me think I must have become senile to have bought a Corvette. It is the kind of extravagant waste of money I am known to abhor. But it was yellow, my blood sugar was low, and since I've saved my money, I had the cash to buy it.

jschindler

Well, I must say that you handled my shot over the bow quite well

inthehunt2

Well hold on a minute...

Two things:

1st - Here's a graph showing the price in 1953 at $2772 and the price hiked every year by the CPI. Yes, the current price of the Vette has risen faster than the CPI inflated price by a factor of approximately 2.



2nd - Comparing the great early cars to today's car, what are some of the main different things?

Unique parts required to make a fast car = higher priced parts due to lack of economies of scale.

Tires that stick like glue = more costly tires

Nav screen = cost up - do you think this kind of electronic wizadry is free?

AM/FM/CD/Satellite radio = cost up - do you think this kind of electronic wizadry is free?

Super powerful engine with good fuel economy = cost up - do you think this kind of performance is free?

Magneoto-fluid shocks that adapt to the road 100's of times per second = cost up - do you think this kind of electronic wizadry is free?

A car that can subject itself to lateral and longitudinal forces that would cause a 1953 version to fold in half = cost up - do you think this kind of elegant design is free?

This comparison can go on and on, however I think the point is made. If you want a performance and price of a 1953 Vette at 1953 prices, you can't even buy that in a 1980 MG today!