Another paddle shift question/comment....
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Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2008
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Another paddle shift question/comment....
I've read several posts where people comment that the delay in the paddle shift is excessive. It seems to me that there is also a delay on a manual transmission. Let me explain. When you push in on the clutch and move the shift lever, you are actually putting the car into a neutral position for a fraction of a second. Although you may not perceive the pause, it is still there. Does this make sense? Maybe I'm explaining it wrong. Will someone please educate me. I'm just curious.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: foothills of Northern California
A little off topic , but the "delay" with the A6 is what is called " flare ".
This is built into this type of trans for longevity reasons. With this much power with this type of trans shift shock can be an issue, so the built in protection. The Vette trans is fairly low tech.
This is built into this type of trans for longevity reasons. With this much power with this type of trans shift shock can be an issue, so the built in protection. The Vette trans is fairly low tech.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: --- N.E., Pa.
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Last edited by mcwire; May 14, 2009 at 07:15 PM.
Team Owner
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From: Northern, VA
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
True, Russell. But we've "evolved" to where some see the "clutchless-automatics", "manumatics", "auto-manual" transmission, etc. of the Formula One Ferraris, and street Porsche, BMW, etc. And some think that Corvette automatics should have delay-less shifts that just bang from one gear to the next, up or down. To do that would require a very different trans, at a different price, and with a more stringent maintenance schedule I would suspect, not to mention a R&R process, too. 
The fact is most who do modify the shift pattern of their cars won't own it long enough to have anything bad come of it.
The fact is most who do modify the shift pattern of their cars won't own it long enough to have anything bad come of it.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 30,706
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From: Ocala FL
I've read several posts where people comment that the delay in the paddle shift is excessive. It seems to me that there is also a delay on a manual transmission. Let me explain. When you push in on the clutch and move the shift lever, you are actually putting the car into a neutral position for a fraction of a second. Although you may not perceive the pause, it is still there. Does this make sense? Maybe I'm explaining it wrong. Will someone please educate me. I'm just curious.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,105
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From: Edmond Oklahoma
Any good tuner can adjust to shift firmness and speed of the gear change. This will vastly improve the reflex of the paddle shift. I had mine done and the difference is amazing especially at WOT. 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,250
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From: Glassboro New Jersey
A little off topic , but the "delay" with the A6 is what is called " flare ".
This is built into this type of trans for longevity reasons. With this much power with this type of trans shift shock can be an issue, so the built in protection. The Vette trans is fairly low tech.
This is built into this type of trans for longevity reasons. With this much power with this type of trans shift shock can be an issue, so the built in protection. The Vette trans is fairly low tech.
This is not entirely true.I've been an auto tech for 20 years and can probably overhaul a trans blindfolded.
An auto trans will "flare" if it is indeed slipping a particular gear as it shifts. The RPMS will "FLARE" between shifts. If an auto trans is flaring, then there is a problem.
What the OP is describing is the delay from the time you push the paddle shifter until the time the trans actually responds and shifts. It is all in the software, and any good tuner can improved the shift response.
As far as a manual trans, the OP is correct. That's why a skilled driver will always be faster at the track. He can shift faster and more precise ( not missing any shifts) then a less experienced driver.
Last edited by Marc V.; May 14, 2009 at 07:21 PM.
Racer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 472
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From: Dallas Texas
This is not entirely true.I've been an auto tech for 20 years and can probably overhaul a trans blindfolded. An auto trans will "flare" if it is indeed slipping a particular gear as it shifts. The RPMS will "FLARE" between shifts. If an auto trans is flaring, then there is a problem.
What the OP is describing is the delay from the time you push the paddle shifter until the time the trans actually responds and shifts. It is all in the software, and any good tuner can improved the shift response.
As far as a manual trans, the OP is correct. That's why a skilled driver will always be faster at the track. He can shift faster and more precise ( not missing any shifts) then a less experienced driver.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Glassboro New Jersey
Remember that the Vette was produced to appeal to a wide range of customers, hence a smooth trans and a quiet exhaust, etc. You don't think the middle aged woman who buys a Vettes wants a trans that shifts harsh or has a loud exhaust?
Race Director
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From: Chatsworth California
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Northeast MA & Mad Beach FL
Your premise is correct. There is, of course, a delay. However, it is no worse than the time it takes to do a manual shift. It is just more noticeable because you are not doing anything else, like actually shifting. The mind will play tricks that will drive you crazy if you let it.
I notice my A6 will shift a lot faster when accelerating hard and letting it shift on it's own in Sport Mode.
It shifts Slightly slower if I use the Paddles
Personally I "don't" want it to "Bang" into each gear.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,359
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From: Concord NC
True, Russell. But we've "evolved" to where some see the "clutchless-automatics", "manumatics", "auto-manual" transmission, etc. of the Formula One Ferraris, and street Porsche, BMW, etc. And some think that Corvette automatics should have delay-less shifts that just bang from one gear to the next, up or down. To do that would require a very different trans, at a different price, and with a more stringent maintenance schedule I would suspect, not to mention a R&R process, too.
The fact is most who do modify the shift pattern of their cars won't own it long enough to have anything bad come of it.
The fact is most who do modify the shift pattern of their cars won't own it long enough to have anything bad come of it.
Your premise is correct. There is, of course, a delay. However, it is no worse than the time it takes to do a manual shift. It is just more noticeable because you are not doing anything else, like actually shifting. The mind will play tricks that will drive you crazy if you let it.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Missouri City Texas
I'd also like to comment about people talking abuot manual shifting. If you can't outshift the paddles then you dont know how to drive a manual.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Wilmington NC
Your premise is correct. There is, of course, a delay. However, it is no worse than the time it takes to do a manual shift. It is just more noticeable because you are not doing anything else, like actually shifting. The mind will play tricks that will drive you crazy if you let it.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Basingstoke England
Seriously, the consensus is that for a manual road-car transmission you're looking at 0.5-1.0 seconds to shift (i.e. from power-on in the old gear to power-on in the new gear). Or should I say 500-1000ms? Let's say 500ms if you know what you're doing.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Al
I've got an 08 auto w/paddles I bought used. The shift response with the paddles seems to me to be almost immediate(maybe a half second). Does this mean the previous owner(don't know who this is) probably had it tuned? If so, is there and way to know if it has been previously tuned?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,359
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From: Concord NC
You're absolutely right, a manual shifted properly can be measured in milliseconds; of course, so can the age of the Universe
Seriously, the consensus is that for a manual road-car transmission you're looking at 0.5-1.0 seconds to shift (i.e. from power-on in the old gear to power-on in the new gear). Or should I say 500-1000ms? Let's say 500ms if you know what you're doing.
Seriously, the consensus is that for a manual road-car transmission you're looking at 0.5-1.0 seconds to shift (i.e. from power-on in the old gear to power-on in the new gear). Or should I say 500-1000ms? Let's say 500ms if you know what you're doing.
I guess 500ms sounds faster than 5 tenths
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 30,706
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From: Ocala FL
There is no way on God's green earth that the paddles have as much as a 2 second delay (at least on an '08). I don't use them a lot, but I can assure you a shift is completed in less than a second (like between 500 & 1000 ms). Two seconds is an eternity relating to a shift. If it were taking two seconds, the villagers would be at the gates of the castle in Detroit with pitchforks and torches.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Palm Beach County, Florida
But mine also seems somewhat variable when using the paddles depending on throttle input, RPM etc. Try it out.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: foothills of Northern California
With the factory tune using the paddles you will get good shift times if you build enough pressure up with similar revs as you would with a M trans. I cant see lugging the vette around in Drive or Sport mode. I am 100% paddles. Granted the factory tune wants to short shift to get better miliage numbers.
With a trans tune you will have more wear not less. More stress on the whole drive train. Plus it jacks up your warranty
With a trans tune you will have more wear not less. More stress on the whole drive train. Plus it jacks up your warranty
Last edited by 06 C6 vert; May 15, 2009 at 04:25 PM.