rockethead7

There have been a number of thread recently, and since I became a member of this forum, and before, that allude to warrantee coverage for modified C6s. I know there are several tuners out there that understand the risks of losing the warrantee, accept the risks, and modify anyway. To those folks I say "BRAVO"!!!

There are many, however, that modify cars, and then expect the warrantee to be valid anyway. And, frankly, I just don't know what to say to those folks. I simply cannot fathom any reason for that mentality. It's not part of my understanding or vocabulary, and I cannot manage to make any sense of this "logic" except to conclude that these people are spoiled brats that want their cake and eat it too (at the expense of everyone else around).

Now, let me clarify... I understand that the warrantee is written in such a way that it almost seems that you cannot even swap your FLOOR MATS without voiding your engine warrantee. And, of course, I do NOT agree with the "letter of the law" to that extreme extent. Completely unrelated modifications should not affect the warrantee on completely unrelated parts. But, if anyone has documented proof of any such distinct extreme obvious examples of unrelated parts voiding warrantees, I'd love to see it, and I'd be on that side of the argument. But, it would be the first time, because I've never heard of Chevy declining warrantee repairs on something that is blatently unrelated.

But, there are several gray-area arguments I've heard:

"Yeah, I modified my engine, but the component in my engine that blew wasn't the component that I modified."

-- My response: In this regard, yeah, I know that sometimes this happens. And, I never wish bad things to happen to anyone else, and therefore I'm sorry it happened. However, this is just a gamble that you must be willing to take if you modify your engine. You see, my opinion is that even if it's in the neighborhood, it should void the warrantee. I simply cannot see any reason that GM should spend tons of $$ and man-hours trying to test and isolate whether modifying X-part can affect Y-part. There are 15 trillion examples where you can confirm that modifying X can cause Y to fail. And, there are 15 trillion examples to the opposite, where modifying X will NOT cause Y to fail. I simply cannot hold GM to the responsibility to document all 30 trillion examples of what parts will or won't affect other parts, and then expect mechanics and dealerships and district managers to sift through all of that to confirm or deny anything beyond the obvious examples. If GM had to do that, it would cost an absolute fortune, and ALL of our C6s would have cost us another $10K just to cover all of the massive research and paperwork nonsense behind all of that. I advocate instead just establishing a proximity rule... if you modify X and it's even remotely POSSIBLE that Y would be affected, sorry, bam, your warrantee on Y is voided.


"Oh, but you're just anti-mod, and you just want all Corvettes to be original"

-- My response: Then you haven't seen my 1972.


"But, I really KNOW that when I modified X that Y was NOT affected."

-- My response: Well, you might be right. But, sometimes things are not that clear, and sometimes things can have a daisy chain effect. Why should it be up to GM to cover the gray areas?? It's irresponsible business for GM to fork out money to repair every possible car that has been modified with these gray area issues, and we'd ALL end up paying for it if they did.


"This forum and Corvette enthusiasm wouldn't be around if it wasn't for the mods. Therefore mods should be covered. Anyone who says otherwise is just has a mod your car and die mentality"

-- My response: That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Corvette enthusiasm has been around since the car was introduced, and there are countless members of this forum that do NOT modify their cars. Not to mention, what does that have to do with WARRANTEE coverage?? What's wrong with a "mod your car and lose your warrantee" mentality??


"I think that if you modify your engine and the engine blows, you should be sure to remove the modifications before taking it in for warrantee repairs."

-- My response: You're a disgusting pig that I want nothing to do with. You cheat the system. You spit in the face of honest people that will end up paying for your replacement, and you don't care. You're nothing but a leech on humanity, and I hope to never have you or your kind anywhere near my house or family. You KNOW that modifying your engine voids the warrantee, you did it anyway, and now you want everyone else to pay for YOUR problems. You're EXACTLY what is wrong with our society today, and I truly hope I never have to deal with you or your kind in my life, because I'd probably puke on sight of such a disgusting display of inhumanity.


"But it's a victimless crime"

-- My response: That's even dumber than the prior thing I said above was the dumbest thing I've ever heard. We ALL pay in higher warrantee prices. It's like saying "insurance fraud is a victimless crime".... uugh. Fraud is fraud, and we all pay for it.


"But the mods I did were by a professional that knew what he was doing, and these mods shouldn't have blown my engine."

-- My response, then go after that professional for the repair money. But, why should GM pay?


"But, I really want more performance, why shouldn't GM allow this?"

-- My response: You own the car, go modify it, nobody is stopping you as long as you comply with federal/state laws, etc. But, to expect GM to pay for repairs after you modify things is ridiculous.


"GM is just looking to get out of their warrantee obligations."

-- My response: I've never had time for conspiracy theories. In my personal experience, and that of my friends, I've always seen that GM leans IN FAVOR of covering things under warrantee if they can. But, they also have dual loyalties, and must be cost conscious for the sake of all of the others out there that do NOT modify their cars and don't want to pay for those that do. I usually see GM bending over backward to try to make good. If this doesn't happen all the time, well, I guess I wouldn't be shocked to death, but, it's not something I've seen. I always thought GM was a pretty generous company to its customers. But, they have to draw the line somewhere, and sorry if you're on the other side of that line, but you knew the risks.


"So, how can I get a modified car and keep a warrantee?"

-- My response: There are companies like Callaway that Chevy works with to produce higher powered models and they'll have a warrantee. Buy one of those.


"But, I don't want one of those, and my mods are really no different in concept, in fact my mods are LESS extreme than the mods done by Callaway... so why shouldn't MY minor little mods be covered if they can cover Callaway mods?"

-- Yeah, this is probably the only real argument worth discussing. But, I'm afraid it still falls into the "do not cover it" category. Why? Because you simply cannot expect GM to research EVERY modification and modifier out there. Talk about too many possibilities!!! Sure, fine, your particular mod is less extreme and shouldn't have blown your engine. I feel for ya (really). But, hey, you modified the car knowing the risks. And, I just can't expect GM to spend the massive $$$ it would take to document every possible mod on the planet, and then work to see that every person who performs the mod is certified to do so. This is just a ridiculous thought, and simply cannot be supported in any valid business model. I agree that the engine shouldn't have blown with your minor mods, but, I cannot expect GM to research EVERY mod. Therefore, I advocate the "you mod your engine, you void your engine warrantee" business model. Any other business model is a recipe for disaster, and would NOT be servicing the other C6 purchasers very well by increasing the price of THEIR car to cover the costs of fixing every mod out there, no matter how minor.


Bottom line: there are other people in the world besides you. There are people that buy C6s and C6 extended warrantees that do NOT want to have to pay a small fortune for them, because GM has to turn around and cover all of the expenses of fixing cars with engine layouts that THEY DID NOT DESIGN. I see no reason to drive the costs up for everyone else in order to support the habits of tuners. And, though I don't wish any bad to come of tuners, I don't wish their cars to blow up, I do wish that *IF* it happens, they should pay for it, and not me!!!

I own a company, and I guess I'm more in tune with these things that don't own companies. I would be flat broke without a roof over my head if I covered the costs to fix problems every time someone modified a product/service that I sell. I can/will support any design my company produces, but I cannot support something that my company did not design. And, I cannot afford to investigate every possible nuance, so I employ a proximity rule... if modifying X might have cause Y to fail, sorry, I can't cover it. And, yes, I *do* lean in favor of clients/customers. But, lines have to be drawn somewhere, and I cannot spend tons of man-hours on investigating 10,000 "maybe" issues.

You know the risk of modifying your car, I support you in your efforts to do so, but I only ask that you pay for it if something goes wrong.

MurphMan2

-- My response: You're a disgusting pig that I want nothing to do with. You cheat the system. You spit in the face of honest people that will end up paying for your replacement, and you don't care. You're nothing but a leech on humanity, and I hope to never have you or your kind anywhere near my house or family. You KNOW that modifying your engine voids the warrantee, you did it anyway, and now you want everyone else to pay for YOUR problems. You're EXACTLY what is wrong with our society today, and I truly hope I never have to deal with you or your kind in my life, because I'd probably puke on sight of such a disgusting display of inhumanity.

I totally agree with you on your manifesto but the above statement seems a bit much.

rockethead7

Well, that's exactly how I feel about people who steal from me. What else can I say?

LucaBrasiAZ

i think this is a fantastic post and im sure it will offend many in here....I for one play by the rules for my warranty, i keep my stuff the way the dealer intended, i buy the extended bumper to bumper to match my powertrain...and because of guys who try to cheat the system im sure everything in my car will be scrutinized when i bring it in for warranty work. Im sure a couple of people will come back with " dont hate the player, hate the game" and thats just pure selfishness. Just because you CAN get away with something doesnt mean you SHOULD.

redzone

This is one of the best(if not THE best) posts I've seen here in a long time. Well said

Shortimer

Quite a read. My '08 remains "stock" while under the factory warranty.

06 C6 vert

Are you sure your post is long enough?

dvilin

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Read and hung on to every word of it.

Well written, well put, and one of the best posts on this board. It ought to be a sticky.

nwc6

Agree with most of the post, but in my experience, GM will attempt to duck out of MAJOR warranty repair if they can get away with it.
Case in point, my 98 GMC with 454 piston slap noise..After a lot of complaints, a TSB was generated saying it was normal...My service mgr after threat by me of Lemon Law action opened the motor..cyls 5&7 were .100 oversize, and piston skirts cracked..New motor time..Only because I threatened them..That was one of several issues I had with GM..So my experience is they are ruled by the Corporate America=Bottom line equation.
The LS7 had known needle bearings falling out of the rocker arms/and valve springs breaking..Now if I had headers/tune and the rocker arm needle bearings fell out, do you think GM is not a disgusting pig, or leech on humanity if they deny the warranty claim? I know they refused warranty on a LS7 that dropped a valve because they found rubber in the wheel well liners..

'06 Quicksilver Z06

While the car was in warranty, whose LS7 did they refuse to cover under warranty due to a needle bearing issue? Who broke a valve spring and did not have the engine covered?


That can be viewed as abuse.

nwc6

I was just hypothetical issue with the needle bearings and having a tune..

I know, if it didn't happen on this forum, it didn't happen..Tom Wong knows specifics as he was involved..I just spoke with Tom on the issue..
Yes it could be abuse, but the defect was a known issue, so why not cover it?? Because GM figured they could get out of it.

mpuzach

Excellent post with many excellent points. Count me as one who agrees with you.

L82PC

Point is, is that there will always be a "few" gray area cases, but for the most part the OP is right on the money.

To the OP:

Thanks for the post...

rockethead7

Well, as I said, I don't really have any personal experience (nor do I directly know anyone) that has had a negative warrantee experience with GM (well, at least not one that wasn't deserved!!). I had a crack in my engine block (non-Vette) after the warrantee period had already expired, and GM covered a majority of the repair (a brand new engine) because they said that it really shouldn't have happened. GM gives these discretionary funds to its dealers to cover borderline cases, and does NOT always stick to hard and fast rules.

I know nothing about the example you gave, but of course would wait until I hear both sides before judging. I have a hard time just accepting an internet blog/post saying that an LS7 repair was denied because of rubber in the wheel wells, and I'm too old to just believe everything I read. Not that I'm saying that it CANNOT happen, or definitively didn't happen. But, let me put it this way... there's never a shortage of mistakes in the world. Just because a front-line person refuses a warrantee repair he/she wasn't supposed to refuse, does NOT mean GM as a whole is evil. Sometimes you need to escalate an issue and get to someone up the chain to re-interpret the rules of the warrantee and override the person who made the mistake. If you can name ANY large company where mistakes NEVER happen with front-line people, and there's NEVER been an issue that needed to get escalated before getting corrected, please do so. As far as I can tell, EVERY large company on the planet will suffer from occasional mistakes on the front lines. (And, believe me, when it comes to DEALERS being the front lines, I know mistakes will happen often... I'm not a huge fan of car dealers' competence.)

Now, that being said, I dunno... you still could be right that even up the chain there may have been dubious policy decisions. I don't know. I'd need proof before I believe something blindly. But, I'm not saying it can't happen. I trust NOBODY and NOTHING without solid evidence, including GM executives (least of all, Ed Whitacre, who I'm not a fan of), but I'm also not a conspiracy theorist. But, even so, two wrongs don't make a right. I don't subscribe to the idea that (stretching what you're saying) "since GM didn't honor a warrantee they should have on car-A, I'm going to steal from them on car-B".... Just doesn't fly in my book.

John Mclain

We have to find a happy medium.

If I upgrade my Air intake, GM shouldn't be able to blame this if my radiator springs a leak but it seems that they would do so just to F U ..

I phoned my dealer and asked if installed a Cat-back exhaust would it void my powertrain warranty and he said ' you betcha '

Then I phoned back a week later and asked if a aftermarket exhaust would void my warranty and I was told , " no as long as we install it "

When I asked this same question to the salesman 'while he was closing my sale in April ' he said " no problem " I have a modified exhaust on my own ZO6

rockethead7

Name me a documented example of Chevy turning down a warrantee repair of a radiator after an upgrade to an air intake.

As for trusting what dealers say, if YOU want to just pick up the phone and talk to any old random person at a dealer and expect accurate information, that's YOUR problem. Personally, I don't trust a word that comes out of a dealer without verification from GM.

As for whether dealers decide to warrantee modifications they make themselves, that's their business to do so. Whether they get caught trying to write off THEIR mods to Chevy's budget, that's another story, and I hope any such dealers get caught and get their dealerships revoked.

As for the "general impression" that you seem to have that GM routinely says "FU" to its customer base, well, I'm afraid you're a bit paranoid. You see, it's REALLY bad business to do that. And, if you think it's common practice that GM does this, then dare I say that maybe you're a paranoid delusional?? I do NOT see this from GM, especially in the face of their recent "buy our cars and take them back if you don't like them" campaign. Seems to me that GM is awfully darn confident and ready to back up their cars in many different ways. And, as I said, my personal warrantee exprerience with GM has always been VERY good, always leaning in my favor.

Smitter

I can live with the mod at your own risk when the mod is extreme but not for CAI's and other small mods. I do however expect my car to perform the way it was intended time and time again including some of that time being close to the red line.

rockethead7

OK, and I already answered that statement in my original post when I talked about smaller mods, and the reason I say that they should NOT be covered. But, you just came and said you thought that minor mods SHOULD be covered. Do you actually have REASONS for your opinion that you want to express? Do you have a counter argument for that which I already expressed about why minor mods should NOT be covered? Just saying "I think minor mods should be covered" isn't good enough. It's a futile empty argument. What say you to the counter argument?

QUAKEJAKE

My conversasion with my dealer back in 08/06 to the letter.