What is wrong about a 5.5L?
03-05-2010, 12:45 PM
#41
Le Mans Master
Comparing Hummers to Corvettes is like comparing apples to elephant dung. Hummers quit selling for 3 reasons:
1. a 4WD Suburban or Tahoe will do the same thing
2. ...and cost much less
3. Hummers are fugly
Once the fad wore off, and considering items 1-3 above, People figured out that they might as well buy a Suburban or a Hoe.
That one's easy. Get rid of Obama. Keep our cars.
1. a 4WD Suburban or Tahoe will do the same thing
2. ...and cost much less
3. Hummers are fugly
Once the fad wore off, and considering items 1-3 above, People figured out that they might as well buy a Suburban or a Hoe.
That one's easy. Get rid of Obama. Keep our cars.
1, 2, & 3 are spot on. As for Obama...How's that hope & change working out for America.
Last edited by Vette Suspension; 03-05-2010 at 01:19 PM.
03-05-2010, 01:08 PM
#42
Melting Slicks
They can easily get a NA 5.5L (or similar size) motor to exceed an LS3 in HP and torque. DI alone would probably be sufficient to equal one and any additional efficiencies in a new design, or even just a slightly more aggressive cam (a la LS6), would just be put it over the top.
Bingo! DI and 5.x is more than enough if you keep the weight down. Of course, keeping the weight down will be the trick if they move the design too far from the current C5/6. DI is evolving at a rapid pace as is exhaust valve and piston coating and GM's energy-recovery system-I think the future of the Corvette will be exciting! However, if you want dwell on old heavy metal that was everything but reliable then go ahead and bemoan the future! Me, I can't wait for what's over the horizon!
03-05-2010, 02:50 PM
#43
Safety Car
Al, the Corvette does not have to meet those numbers. The GM fleet does. There are not enough Corvettes built for it to be a significant factor in GM's overall CAFE ratings.
Yes, they will want to improve the Corvettes rating, but it's not that bad already given the numbers they build, and they can easily pick up a few more with Direct Injection, a little weight loss, smaller tires (look at the current road test of the ZR1 vs Porsche Turbo and the two cars tire sizes).
I have no problem with 5.5 liters, but look at most sports cars with smaller displacement and double overhead cams. They have much worse mid range torque and really don't even get better mileage than the Corvettes engines.
Yes, they will want to improve the Corvettes rating, but it's not that bad already given the numbers they build, and they can easily pick up a few more with Direct Injection, a little weight loss, smaller tires (look at the current road test of the ZR1 vs Porsche Turbo and the two cars tire sizes).
I have no problem with 5.5 liters, but look at most sports cars with smaller displacement and double overhead cams. They have much worse mid range torque and really don't even get better mileage than the Corvettes engines.
A variable no one has mentioned is the sales volume of the Volt which could carry the fleet on its back IF it sells well.
03-05-2010, 03:50 PM
#44
Safety Car
03-07-2010, 12:46 PM
#45
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
Im not back, Im on the boat. Because the satellite that carries immarsat-C telex is degrading in orbit we now only get telex coverage 50% of the time. Just got a KVH system which is a 56k up and down no data limit. This is now my primary method of contact with the office and the observer reports over the internet. Its a rather stunning 999 per month service so the owner told us to burn the thing up. The boys and I are happy to comply.
03-07-2010, 01:08 PM
#46
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
Bingo! DI and 5.x is more than enough if you keep the weight down. Of course, keeping the weight down will be the trick if they move the design too far from the current C5/6. DI is evolving at a rapid pace as is exhaust valve and piston coating and GM's energy-recovery system-I think the future of the Corvette will be exciting! However, if you want dwell on old heavy metal that was everything but reliable then go ahead and bemoan the future! Me, I can't wait for what's over the horizon!DI and heat recovery are great (as long as they're not costly). My point is I don't want anyone forcing me to get a smaller engine, especially when such policy is based on a hoax.
If DI increases HP by 15%, then I want it on a 6.2L with 495 HP. I don't want my engine 15% smaller. If GM wants to offer an optional smaller engine for the greenie Corvette customers, fine by me. Just don't limit my choices because of some carbon footprint
.
03-07-2010, 01:12 PM
#47
Le Mans Master
I'm all for new technology - the LS3 is a great example of what new technology can do.
DI and heat recovery are great (as long as they're not costly). My point is I don't want anyone forcing me to get a smaller engine, especially when such policy is based on a hoax.
If DI increases HP by 15%, then I want it on a 6.2L with 495 HP. I don't want my engine 15% smaller. If GM wants to offer an optional smaller engine for the greenie Corvette customers, fine by me. Just don't limit my choices because of some carbon footprint.
DI and heat recovery are great (as long as they're not costly). My point is I don't want anyone forcing me to get a smaller engine, especially when such policy is based on a hoax.
If DI increases HP by 15%, then I want it on a 6.2L with 495 HP. I don't want my engine 15% smaller. If GM wants to offer an optional smaller engine for the greenie Corvette customers, fine by me. Just don't limit my choices because of some carbon footprint
.They can offer a 4 cyl in a Vette for all I care for the greenies that believe in a hoax. Let myself & other consumers decide what engine we want to buy.
03-07-2010, 01:17 PM
#48
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
car engines can be built with 4+ liters and get the hp and torque we want, esp. if overall weight comes down. it does require good design and execution, but they're doing that now.
03-07-2010, 02:01 PM
#49
Melting Slicks
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Corvette doesn't need to meet CAFE.
The A in CAFE is Average, meaning the FLEET of an OEM must meet the CAFE, so for GM the Volt and other 35 MPG+ (2008 Standard) cars can offset the Trucks and Corvette.
Plus the CAFE number is based on the 1975 Calculation of MPG (not the later one used until 2007 or the new 2008 one both of which are more stringent).
Seriously, look it up, 37.5 MPG is still joke for CAFE.
The A in CAFE is Average, meaning the FLEET of an OEM must meet the CAFE, so for GM the Volt and other 35 MPG+ (2008 Standard) cars can offset the Trucks and Corvette.
Plus the CAFE number is based on the 1975 Calculation of MPG (not the later one used until 2007 or the new 2008 one both of which are more stringent).
Seriously, look it up, 37.5 MPG is still joke for CAFE.
Most people don't realize this.....gotta love un-informed opinions.The 20,000 Corvettes GM will sell each year, will have absolutely no affect on GM's Fleet MPG average.
However GM will improve MPG on Corvettes to appeal to the Green Police. And this may result in a slightly less HP Corvette, but it will still be high performance sports car.
03-07-2010, 03:30 PM
#50
Melting Slicks
When Bush allowed trucks to be included in the overall average rather than having their own average, that made it real tough to get there. When Obama accelerated the new CAFE standard with an executive order, he doomed any car not getting 40mpg which means most cars on the road today. The car average last year for GM was 31. By 2015 it has to be 39. The Corvette is below average already. To increase mileage by over 25% in just 4 years is not possible without a totally different car. And just continuing to sell a car that gets less than 30mpg on the highway is not an option for long any more than continuing to sell Hummers was an option.
True it is an average but the political reality is no company can sell even one "gas guzzler" without paying a penalty.
True it is an average but the political reality is no company can sell even one "gas guzzler" without paying a penalty.
If it weren't for CAFE, several cars would still get 8mpg. We could all be driving electric cars by now if they wanted us to be. Unfortunately there's still a lot of money in oil that says otherwise.
03-07-2010, 03:52 PM
#51
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St. Jude Donor '13
Comparing Hummers to Corvettes is like comparing apples to elephant dung. Hummers quit selling for 3 reasons:
1. a 4WD Suburban or Tahoe will do the same thing
2. ...and cost much less
3. Hummers are fugly
Once the fad wore off, and considering items 1-3 above, People figured out that they might as well buy a Suburban or a Hoe.
That one's easy. Get rid of Obama. Keep our cars.
1. a 4WD Suburban or Tahoe will do the same thing
2. ...and cost much less
3. Hummers are fugly
Once the fad wore off, and considering items 1-3 above, People figured out that they might as well buy a Suburban or a Hoe.
That one's easy. Get rid of Obama. Keep our cars.
I can't stand to see a ugly boxy Hummer.
03-07-2010, 04:33 PM
#52
Le Mans Master
Dude, look up the Volt's EPA rating and tell me GM has to worry about the vette.
If it weren't for CAFE, several cars would still get 8mpg. We could all be driving electric cars by now if they wanted us to be. Unfortunately there's still a lot of money in oil that says otherwise.
If it weren't for CAFE, several cars would still get 8mpg. We could all be driving electric cars by now if they wanted us to be. Unfortunately there's still a lot of money in oil that says otherwise.
03-07-2010, 05:49 PM
#53
Racer
If I look at my workplace, full of creative and supposedly flexible smart thinkers, as a sampling of a country then I'm quite happy the supervisors are who they are wrangling the people. There's no sense in just running amok. lol
03-07-2010, 09:09 PM
#54
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
Dude, look up the Volt's EPA rating and tell me GM has to worry about the vette.
If it weren't for CAFE, several cars would still get 8mpg. We could all be driving electric cars by now if they wanted us to be. Unfortunately there's still a lot of money in oil that says otherwise.
If it weren't for CAFE, several cars would still get 8mpg. We could all be driving electric cars by now if they wanted us to be. Unfortunately there's still a lot of money in oil that says otherwise.
my first job out of college was to buy up all of the 80 mpg carburetors and bury them in an undisclosed location in Nevada.
03-07-2010, 10:02 PM
#56
Safety Car
Most people don't realize this.....gotta love un-informed opinions.The 20,000 Corvettes GM will sell each year, will have absolutely no affect on GM's Fleet MPG average.
However GM will improve MPG on Corvettes to appeal to the Green Police. And this may result in a slightly less HP Corvette, but it will still be high performance sports car.
Tell this to the many people who wanted to purchase a corvette with the Z51 option but could not for a good chunk of a model year due to CAFE restraints. This, just an option on some of the cars that reduces milage by a small amount as compared to the same model without the option. Every model has a carefully calculated window it must fit within to achieve the overall average as a company and they must sell in the volumes anticipated or else running adjustments must be made in production. Every car matters.
03-07-2010, 10:16 PM
#57
I'm all for new technology - the LS3 is a great example of what new technology can do.
DI and heat recovery are great (as long as they're not costly). My point is I don't want anyone forcing me to get a smaller engine, especially when such policy is based on a hoax.
If DI increases HP by 15%, then I want it on a 6.2L with 495 HP. I don't want my engine 15% smaller. If GM wants to offer an optional smaller engine for the greenie Corvette customers, fine by me. Just don't limit my choices because of some carbon footprint.
DI and heat recovery are great (as long as they're not costly). My point is I don't want anyone forcing me to get a smaller engine, especially when such policy is based on a hoax.
If DI increases HP by 15%, then I want it on a 6.2L with 495 HP. I don't want my engine 15% smaller. If GM wants to offer an optional smaller engine for the greenie Corvette customers, fine by me. Just don't limit my choices because of some carbon footprint
.However, now that the government owns GM, who is really calling the shots?
03-07-2010, 11:36 PM
#59
Race Director
It has already been proven that smaller doesn't mean more efficient. The 5.5L will most likely have to be more complex that the LS3 in order to make the same HP/TQ. Chevy could probably get away with using the current motor with a lighter car. Being more complex means costs more to repair, maintain and build. It also usually means tolerances are tighter.
I'm trying to figure out how they got the Corvette's current rating since I usually exceed it by 10% on the highway even on "quicker" drives. They could probably put DI on the current 6.2L, lighten the Corvette up slightly and the green police will be happy with the results after the EPA does a true gas mileage test.
To prove that smaller motors doesn't mean efficient one only has to look at cars like the Evo, GT-R, STI and other similar cars. Evo may get you 300 miles on a tank of gas. Meanwhile the Vette can hit around 450-500 miles per tank.
I'm trying to figure out how they got the Corvette's current rating since I usually exceed it by 10% on the highway even on "quicker" drives. They could probably put DI on the current 6.2L, lighten the Corvette up slightly and the green police will be happy with the results after the EPA does a true gas mileage test.
To prove that smaller motors doesn't mean efficient one only has to look at cars like the Evo, GT-R, STI and other similar cars. Evo may get you 300 miles on a tank of gas. Meanwhile the Vette can hit around 450-500 miles per tank.
