Foxer55

Without going into detail I need to understand the issues with owning a Corvette, racing it, and insuring it. It seems most insurance companies will not insure you or your vehicle for DD even if you carry legitimate track insurance for racing only. Looking over the web I find that my insurance will not cover you if you so much as raise the question.

(1) Does anyone have experience with this?

(2) Do you know any companies that will provide general coverage while you also buy track insurence .

johnodrake

I don't know why an insurance company would care. They have no liability while you are on the track.

Foxer55

john,

I suspect they are concerned about getting scammed but more about any contingent risk that might be assigned to them by virtue of insuring you. I can see where contingency could be a legal minefield, especially if a court would ensnare a named party such as an insurance company in something like medical liabilities. While a contract might say one thing, the courts these days are so "progressive" they might direct the company to pay for a squirrel you knocked out of a tree despite your $60K machine was totaled.

c1j1c2

I would think that the insurance company would also believe, weather true or not, that if the person races on the track, they'll do it on the street also.

johnodrake

Let me pose it a different way: Is there a question on the application asking if you race the car?

Foxer55

john,

When I searched the web earlier I found two complaints from people who had asked my insurance company about this question and the insurance company dropped them. I have a lot of insurance for two houses, two cars, and a liability umbrella and lay out around $7K a year to protect myself. Because my first experience on the track this weekend convinced me I need to do this, I intend to fix any problems as I enter my "new" life. My weekends from now on will be at the track and on the track. I do not believe avoiding the issue with them is the best way to approach this and I also intend to address the problem to make sure I'm well protected.

LTC Z06

In some states you can just be on a track for a parade lap and your ins will not cover you. If you can't afford to put it in the wall don't take it to the track.

goatts

Your health insurance won't cover you either. But I heard that one of the guys I autox with was covered at HPDE by auto ins when he hit a wall of tires. I'm going to have to check further.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Just important, perhaps even more important as collision coverage on a track is your liability coverage.

In other words, what if you are involved in a track incident or accident and someone else is injured? Can you be sued for their medical bills, etc.?

Just because they signed waivers, giving up their right to sue you, does not mean that their wives and kids, did too.

And in some states, the spouse and heirs can come after you through the legal system, if you were a part of their family member being injured in a track
incident.

The following is a big reason why I have left the road course behind won't do HPDEs anymore.

The liability and personal injury part of it if someone else is hurt, or claims to have been hurt? Don't get me wrong. Great that one's own damages to their vehicle would be covered with track insurance. But any other cars or personal injury, who pays for that?

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/Legal-Files/2009/August/

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/colum...or-4-5-million

"The Ferrari Driver...."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1RohRau9Hg

In the above, who pays for what damage, and what if someone had been hurt? Who is liable? Who gets sued for medical bills, etc. and do you offer coverage to protect against that sort of thing? Thanks

http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-sr...iper-days.html

drivinfast

^^^^ I never thought of all those issued. only the daily track insurance you can purchase over the internet when you pull down the menus for the various track events across the country

johnodrake

It is all about risk management. Not trying to influence your decision, but - if they don't ask the question you are under no obligation to volunteer your intentions, since you are not trying to defraud the company. On the other hand, if you have an accident and were (not suggesting that you would - but others have!) to attempt to make a claim, hiding the circumstances - that would be fraud.

When I went to Spring Mountain, I called my insurance company (USAA) and asked about my coverage at the school. They told me that, in-fact, I would be. (Spring Mountain is not racing, neither is a HPDE) Obviously, companies vary.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Definitely something to think about.

If you are the cause, or part of the cause of an accident on a race track and somebody gets busted up, yeah, with some of this "track insurance", you may be able to get your car fixed.

But when the other "student's" wife, sues you for loss of consortium, or his kids sue you because he can no longer work as a result of your "negligence" you may find yourself without a leg to stand on, or at the very least, have to endure the expense of defending yourself in court.

Foxer55

Quicksilver,

These liabilities should fall under the track or organizer's responsibilities. That's why there are all these structured organizations like NASA and CCA along with all the certications and limitations on the driving. They are supposed to protect the larger community against these kinds of actons. More and more, the high performancce/auto racing (everywhere) community is seen as pond scum by the entitlement-socialist-you owe me-lawyer business community and we need to rely on these arrangements of structured organizations to protect us from deep pocket assaults.

Fair is fair so we also need to remember that insurance is an individual responsibilty and we need to assume some coverage if we play hard. That means understanding your risk and doing what's necessay to cover that risk.

Whisky

I had a good relationship with my State Farm agent. I told him I was doing High Speed Auto-X and a little drag racing with my Mustang.
He said said expect to be covered for the first on track incident and after that there would be a racing or competative driving exclusion.
In essence you got one "get out of jail free" card. After that you are on your own.

Foxer55

Whisky,

Sounds fair to me.

Z06LUST

The operative word is 'expect' NOT that you positively are. Your agent doesn't make the call. The carrier may cover it, as you will claim "I had no idea it wasn't covered", get a lawyer, threaten to sue etc....but 99% of the time, bend the car on the track and your without insurance.

Telling our carrier is worthless, your agent cannot promise anything. Go read your full policy-what does it say??? What are its exclusions? That written policy controls all. If you want a wavier to exclusions in your polciy they have to be by written amendment. And yeah, telling your carrier your out racing the car will probably lead to your being dropped. They figure your out modding the car, maybe doing a little 'road testing'...your business is NOT worth the added risk of hugh payout as they will see it.

Best bet- build and run a dedicated track car........

Most waivers have some force to protect you should you bump someone but if you get a driver who is Mr Dive Bomber and cutting folks off left and right... that behavior will bust a 'waiver' in 2 seconds--why most events black flag such yahoos quickly.

AND your carrier doesn't want to be on the hook for bills (property, medical, bodliy injury, wage loss) when the other guy's carrier denies liaiblity and you try to make an uninsured motorist claim out of it. Also many states are run auto insurance under uninsured motorist rules and that you are really just insuring yourself in those states and your carrier wants NO part of track events and the pontetial increased liability.

andy82

Plus it is typically not racing, but a "high performance driving event".

Gearhead Jim

I did HPDE and autocross in our 1998 Camaro, and 2001 & 2006 Corvettes. Back in those days, State Farm did not exclude liability or collision coverage when on the track. I knew of several people who damaged or totaled some rather expensive cars in HPDE, State Farm paid them.

Starting about 2-3 years ago, State Farm specifically excludes any coverage at track events from any auto and umbrella policy, at least those written in Illinois. My agent said they will not issue a rider to provide coverage.

If your event is approved by NCCC, they have a million dollar liability coverage and i think you would be covered under that. Can anyone give us details on that?

Also, the NCM is starting to offer track collision and liability coverage, i don't have any details.

NOCRISIS

I have heard the same,but it must not be a race by any description,,,,,