LS3 Engine Tune *vs* A6 Transmission Tune
09-01-2011, 09:36 AM
#21
Race Director
Thread Starter
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 13,256
Received 3,087 Likes
on
2,078 Posts
2021 C6 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I think you've been reading my website.
Ill try and clear up a couple points for you.
1) for my mail order tune, you'd need HP Tuners. You'd send me your stock bin, and Ill convert it to a Tampa Tuning tune. It would be both the Engine and Transmission tune.
Phil
www.TampaTuning.com
813-727-8759
Thank's for the info. Yes, I have been to your website.
Since I live in Cape Coral (2 hour drive from you), it would probably better to just drive up to Tampa instead of paying the extra cash for a HP Tuner and doing a "mail order" tune.
With all the tuners that have Corvette experience, it's kinda hard to decide who to take the car to.
The warranty issue does present some concern to me too ... It would be just my luck that after having a tune done, I would suffer a catastrophic failure of the engine or transmission ... now I have a real problem!
I do have one issue with this car right now though. I stated that my 2011 GS was bone stock. Well, it's bone stock except that it does have an Airaid CAI on it. And ever since the CAI has been on the car, the idle is not as smooth as it was before (more so, not as smooth when the engine is cold).
Anyway, I really want the benifets of a good tune, but the warranty issue keeps lurking in the back of my mind ... you can understand
Ron,
09-01-2011, 09:59 AM
#22
Le Mans Master
I have asked my service manager about tuning my car and the warranty; the bottom line as I understand it, is "it’s up to the individual dealer as to what mods done to a car effect the warranty." If you have a tune but need warranty work done on the interior it’s pretty clear it will not have a effect. If you put on aftermarket exhaust and the dealer feels it had an effect on the engine they could refuse to do warranty work on the engine the same is true for a tune.
So go ask your dealer, mine said to me “well if you tune the car then bring it to me because it does not shift right, I will not fix it but if you tune it and bring it to be because the water pump is leaking I won't care that the car has been tuned”.
Its not a simple answer. A dealer could refuse warranty work for any "mod", exhaust system, after maket wheels and tires, tune, cold air intake, any of these could give the dealer the chance to refuse warranty work, it depends on what is wrong and what the dealer's policy is, its up to the dealer. Of course then you could go to a different dealer or up the chain to GM if you so choose.
Go discuss it with the dealer if you plan on doing anything you think could affect the warranty.
IMO!
So go ask your dealer, mine said to me “well if you tune the car then bring it to me because it does not shift right, I will not fix it but if you tune it and bring it to be because the water pump is leaking I won't care that the car has been tuned”.
Its not a simple answer. A dealer could refuse warranty work for any "mod", exhaust system, after maket wheels and tires, tune, cold air intake, any of these could give the dealer the chance to refuse warranty work, it depends on what is wrong and what the dealer's policy is, its up to the dealer. Of course then you could go to a different dealer or up the chain to GM if you so choose.
Go discuss it with the dealer if you plan on doing anything you think could affect the warranty.
IMO!
Well Said Sir!
09-01-2011, 10:11 AM
#23
Race Director
Member Since: Mar 2007
Location: Missouri City Texas
Posts: 11,331
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
14 Posts
I have asked my service manager about tuning my car and the warranty; the bottom line as I understand it, is "it’s up to the individual dealer as to what mods done to a car effect the warranty." If you have a tune but need warranty work done on the interior it’s pretty clear it will not have a effect. If you put on aftermarket exhaust and the dealer feels it had an effect on the engine they could refuse to do warranty work on the engine the same is true for a tune.
So go ask your dealer, mine said to me “well if you tune the car then bring it to me because it does not shift right, I will not fix it but if you tune it and bring it to be because the water pump is leaking I won't care that the car has been tuned”.
Its not a simple answer. A dealer could refuse warranty work for any "mod", exhaust system, after maket wheels and tires, tune, cold air intake, any of these could give the dealer the chance to refuse warranty work, it depends on what is wrong and what the dealer's policy is, its up to the dealer. Of course then you could go to a different dealer or up the chain to GM if you so choose.
Go discuss it with the dealer if you plan on doing anything you think could affect the warranty.
IMO!
So go ask your dealer, mine said to me “well if you tune the car then bring it to me because it does not shift right, I will not fix it but if you tune it and bring it to be because the water pump is leaking I won't care that the car has been tuned”.
Its not a simple answer. A dealer could refuse warranty work for any "mod", exhaust system, after maket wheels and tires, tune, cold air intake, any of these could give the dealer the chance to refuse warranty work, it depends on what is wrong and what the dealer's policy is, its up to the dealer. Of course then you could go to a different dealer or up the chain to GM if you so choose.
Go discuss it with the dealer if you plan on doing anything you think could affect the warranty.
IMO!
....that would be more relevant in a different thread perhaps, because it doesn't address anything being discussed here.
The OP is asking if the tune can be detected.
We aren't asking if a mod will or won't void a warranty. We already know that a tune will void the warranty, period, but Chuck is saying it can be removed with no traces of ever being there.
09-01-2011, 11:13 AM
#24
Le Mans Master
Not really...
....that would be more relevant in a different thread perhaps, because it doesn't address anything being discussed here.
The OP is asking if the tune can be detected.
We aren't asking if a mod will or won't void a warranty. We already know that a tune will void the warranty, period, but Chuck is saying it can be removed with no traces of ever being there.
....that would be more relevant in a different thread perhaps, because it doesn't address anything being discussed here.
The OP is asking if the tune can be detected.
We aren't asking if a mod will or won't void a warranty. We already know that a tune will void the warranty, period, but Chuck is saying it can be removed with no traces of ever being there.
As far as can it be detected, I would trust Chuck,
"If a C6 CORVETTE is put back to stock... THE DEALER CAN NOT TELL. PERIOD."
As far my comments on warranty and tunes it seems you addressed this also
YOUR comments
“That isn't to say something else might go wrong though not related to the tune and then you'd be up a creek as far as your warranty goes (unless Chuck can prove otherwise, which would be great). That also doesn't mean you should scam GM if the tune was the cause of the problem (assuming it IS possible to remove a tune and show it was never altered in any way).”
As far as your last comment
“We already know that a tune will void the warranty, period”
This statement is just simply not true, it depends on what the dealer wants to do, I have personnel knowledge of this, do you?
09-01-2011, 04:56 PM
#25
Le Mans Master
Excuse me I was just jumping in based on EVERYTHING said and ADDRESSED in this thread.
As far as can it be detected, I would trust Chuck,
"If a C6 CORVETTE is put back to stock... THE DEALER CAN NOT TELL. PERIOD."
As far my comments on warranty and tunes it seems you addressed this also
YOUR comments
“That isn't to say something else might go wrong though not related to the tune and then you'd be up a creek as far as your warranty goes (unless Chuck can prove otherwise, which would be great). That also doesn't mean you should scam GM if the tune was the cause of the problem (assuming it IS possible to remove a tune and show it was never altered in any way).”
As far as your last comment
“We already know that a tune will void the warranty, period”
This statement is just simply not true, it depends on what the dealer wants to do, I have personnel knowledge of this, do you?
As far as can it be detected, I would trust Chuck,
"If a C6 CORVETTE is put back to stock... THE DEALER CAN NOT TELL. PERIOD."
As far my comments on warranty and tunes it seems you addressed this also
YOUR comments
“That isn't to say something else might go wrong though not related to the tune and then you'd be up a creek as far as your warranty goes (unless Chuck can prove otherwise, which would be great). That also doesn't mean you should scam GM if the tune was the cause of the problem (assuming it IS possible to remove a tune and show it was never altered in any way).”
As far as your last comment
“We already know that a tune will void the warranty, period”
This statement is just simply not true, it depends on what the dealer wants to do, I have personnel knowledge of this, do you?
If you blow a motor or tranny,the first thing GM's going to do is ask for a snapshot of the tune. If anything other than a factory tune is detected,right down to the last checksum,you're SOL.
09-01-2011, 05:11 PM
#26
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2000
Location: Far NW 'burbs of Chicago
Posts: 23,937
Received 2,051 Likes
on
1,362 Posts
St. Jude Donor '13
The only problem is if you have a catastrophic failure it doesn't matter what the dealership says. It's up to GM's regional rep. And he doesn't give a single bit what kind of rapport you may have developed at the dealer level. The dealer has exactly nada say so in these matters any more.
If you blow a motor or tranny,the first thing GM's going to do is ask for a snapshot of the tune. If anything other than a factory tune is detected,right down to the last checksum,you're SOL.
If you blow a motor or tranny,the first thing GM's going to do is ask for a snapshot of the tune. If anything other than a factory tune is detected,right down to the last checksum,you're SOL.
He also said they can detect the existance of previous tunes that are no longer "active".
09-01-2011, 05:16 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
Bringing a car back to stock specs while attempting to make a warranty claim, whether or not the dealer can detect a tune, is being dishonest. The way I was brought up, you do a tune, you give up your right to a warranty claim if any damage was done by the non-factory work. If one's so sure about these tunes, why change them back?
09-01-2011, 05:47 PM
#28
Melting Slicks
question is
How many people on this forum have done a tune and then needed warranty work and have been reudsed? And was it related to the tune or mod? Ive yet to hear of one but there must one or two out there?
Ive had my car for a yr have put 20K on it and had no probs yet and I have headers HFCs axel back and maiil in tune.
How many people on this forum have done a tune and then needed warranty work and have been reudsed? And was it related to the tune or mod? Ive yet to hear of one but there must one or two out there?
Ive had my car for a yr have put 20K on it and had no probs yet and I have headers HFCs axel back and maiil in tune.
09-01-2011, 05:49 PM
#29
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2000
Location: Far NW 'burbs of Chicago
Posts: 23,937
Received 2,051 Likes
on
1,362 Posts
St. Jude Donor '13
question is
How many people on this forum have done a tune and then needed warranty work and have been reudsed? And was it related to the tune or mod? Ive yet to hear of one but there must one or two out there?
Ive had my car for a yr have put 20K on it and had no probs yet and I have headers HFCs axel back and maiil in tune.
How many people on this forum have done a tune and then needed warranty work and have been reudsed? And was it related to the tune or mod? Ive yet to hear of one but there must one or two out there?
Ive had my car for a yr have put 20K on it and had no probs yet and I have headers HFCs axel back and maiil in tune.
09-01-2011, 07:49 PM
#31
Race Director
The only problem is if you have a catastrophic failure it doesn't matter what the dealership says. It's up to GM's regional rep. And he doesn't give a single bit what kind of rapport you may have developed at the dealer level. The dealer has exactly nada say so in these matters any more.
If you blow a motor or tranny,the first thing GM's going to do is ask for a snapshot of the tune. If anything other than a factory tune is detected,right down to the last checksum,you're SOL.
If you blow a motor or tranny,the first thing GM's going to do is ask for a snapshot of the tune. If anything other than a factory tune is detected,right down to the last checksum,you're SOL.
Regional rep gets involved quick with expensive repairs. You better have whatever agreement between you and the dealer in writing because GM probably won't pay for it. GM wants to know why your motor/tranny failed. Nothing against vendors but most (there are a few exceptions such as Callaway) will not pay the bill so it will be up to you vs GM. If you cannot afford the repair don't do the mod.
09-01-2011, 08:29 PM
#34
Intermediate
Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tune is the way to go
Anyone who tells you not to get a tune is not fully educated about the process. One, GM tunes its car to balance performance, saftey and emissions. By default that means that certain compromises in performance must be made. Let's be clear, if you use the services of a top notch experienced tuner, you will unlock performance that is sitting there begging to be released without any detriment to the reliability of the car. These engines are designed to handle way more than what is asked of them in the bare stock condition. A good tune will tighten up shift patterns, unleash a minimum of 10 to 20 horsepower, and even under certains driving patterns increase your mpg. As for reverting back to stock tune, AutoCal makes it easy. No way you should avoid a tune for fear of voiding the warranty. You paid good money to enjoy the car's performance, and a good tune does nothing to put the car's engine or tranny at risk. Just my two cents. In the end, it's your car do whatever makes you comfortable.
08-20-2014, 09:00 AM
#35
Instructor
Don't apologize for being a honest person.
I would wait until the warranty is over or if you can afford to replace the tranny without a problem. I don't care if it is detectable or not. IMO if you modify it then it should be your or the vendor's risk, not GM's. Even if you can put it back to stock I couldn't lie because of my personal values. I know that isn't that important these days for most people though.
08-20-2014, 12:34 PM
#36
I have an Intune and the major difference in performance came from the Trans tune set to firm. It really woke up the car--far more than the 10 or so hp from the engine tune possibly could. I think they work well together, but the tranny tune is what made the car, in S, shift like a Corvette should. TM was eliminated as an option on the Tranny tune, btw, not the engine tune. At least that was how it worked with the Intune.
08-20-2014, 03:08 PM
#37
Race Director
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
Posts: 16,555
Received 2,061 Likes
on
1,505 Posts
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Bringing a car back to stock specs while attempting to make a warranty claim, whether or not the dealer can detect a tune, is being dishonest. The way I was brought up, you do a tune, you give up your right to a warranty claim if any damage was done by the non-factory work. If one's so sure about these tunes, why change them back?
I would wait until the warranty is over or if you can afford to replace the tranny without a problem. I don't care if it is detectable or not. IMO if you modify it then it should be your or the vendor's risk, not GM's. Even if you can put it back to stock I couldn't lie because of my personal values. I know that isn't that important these days for most people though.
with all of the above.Promoting the dishonesty is even worse than the dishonesty itself, especially when the intention is for personal profit.
I had no problem getting my first tune and giving up my rights to all that may be affected by it. It didn't mean I lost my entire warranty, but I was willing to sacrifice the security of the possibility of a catastrophic engine/trans failure in the quest for the performance I desired.
Fear of the unknown is what warranties and insurance rely upon. If that fear is too great regarding your car, then don't mod it beyond the acceptable level of the warranty.
Now for my personal opinion regarding tunes. I fully believe that a local reputable dyno tuner will do a much better job of getting the car done to your liking. He is both more accessible to fix the minor tweaks that may affect your personal driving style and has a local reputation to uphold. Doing the tune with a dyno as the tool, gets the most power within your personal limits of safety. It's normally followed up with a road test to confirm or adjust drivability to your satisfaction and may include future tuning at a reduced price if needed when other mods require it.
08-20-2014, 04:19 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Tune
I am a little confused about this A6 transmission tune I have read about here.
A couple of members here have had nothing but good to say about getting just a transmission tune on there A6 Corvettes. One member in particular said he had Chuck CoW do the transmission tune on his car while he was in Carlisle, and he was extremely happy with the results.
In my case, I have a bone stock 2011 GS. The way I look at it, I am of the opinion that my car would benifit more from a transmission-only tune than from an engine-only tune. I say this because I really don't like how the transmission shifts. There has got to be some changes to the transmission that could make this car much nicer and more responsive to drive.
Since my car is stock, in my way of thinking ... an engine-only tune would not be of as much benifit, as it would be on lets say a headers and cam car.
Got a few questions:
1. Does the main PCM control both the engine and the transmission, or is the tuning actually done to separate components (such as engine tuning through the PCM and transmission tuning though the Transmission Module)?
2. Don't both the engine and the transmission have separate "Torque Management" systems in the car? ... If so, which one of these 2 separate Torque Management systems are responsible for reducing the car's overall performance the most?
3. For warranty purposes, will a dealership be able to tell the car has had a transmission tune just as easily as it can detect an engine tune / reflash?
To be honest; All I am trying to do is figure out which tune would give the most bang for the buck.
A couple of members here have had nothing but good to say about getting just a transmission tune on there A6 Corvettes. One member in particular said he had Chuck CoW do the transmission tune on his car while he was in Carlisle, and he was extremely happy with the results.
In my case, I have a bone stock 2011 GS. The way I look at it, I am of the opinion that my car would benifit more from a transmission-only tune than from an engine-only tune. I say this because I really don't like how the transmission shifts. There has got to be some changes to the transmission that could make this car much nicer and more responsive to drive.
Since my car is stock, in my way of thinking ... an engine-only tune would not be of as much benifit, as it would be on lets say a headers and cam car.
Got a few questions:
1. Does the main PCM control both the engine and the transmission, or is the tuning actually done to separate components (such as engine tuning through the PCM and transmission tuning though the Transmission Module)?
2. Don't both the engine and the transmission have separate "Torque Management" systems in the car? ... If so, which one of these 2 separate Torque Management systems are responsible for reducing the car's overall performance the most?
3. For warranty purposes, will a dealership be able to tell the car has had a transmission tune just as easily as it can detect an engine tune / reflash?
To be honest; All I am trying to do is figure out which tune would give the most bang for the buck.
You can tune the engine and or Trans and or torque Management. And it does a really good job. With the trans tune and driving it in the sport mod the shifts are really good. What I like about the Trinity if you do have to take it in for warranty just put in back to stock. Unless they would suspect something like abuse they are not going to go looking for a tune. In fact my local service writer said they could care less.
08-21-2014, 12:42 AM
#39
Racer
Tune Much Improved My 2010
When I went from a manual to automatic I was really disappointed. I had Chuck 's transmission tune and 160 degree thermostat and gas pedal re-mapped. I found the car massively improved. The car upshifts and downshifts at more appropriate speeds and the engine runs cooler and better as the fans come on sooner. The operating temperature stays in the high 180's. I did not find any improvement in the paddle shift times.
I have no relationship to Chuck. I probably would not have kept my vette without these improvements. I did have a concern about warranty, but why have a car like this if you cannot really enjoy it. I find the argument that GM engineers always know best not borne out by the many of the mistakes I have found in GM products over the years.
I have no relationship to Chuck. I probably would not have kept my vette without these improvements. I did have a concern about warranty, but why have a car like this if you cannot really enjoy it. I find the argument that GM engineers always know best not borne out by the many of the mistakes I have found in GM products over the years.
