References Made to Tune
09-06-2011, 05:56 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Okay guys,
I'm going to try and get this right. I haven't worked for a GM dealership in about three years, so I'm operating off of memory (and it's a weak one at that).
Background: I've worked for 2 Chevy dealerships. I was a Corvette specialist at one of them. Driveline/powertrain and performance specialist at both.
Other: Dyno opperator/tuning specialist on everything from Blown Alcohol Dragsters/Altereds/Funny cars to Vintage champ car to street cars. I have a considerable amount of experience on the LS engine as well.
When I worked for GM we could tell with the Tech2 (I believe it was the cvn) if the car had the pcm/tcm recalibrated. Even if it was returned to stock. I was personally involved in the case generation that called for the dismissal of warranty. Beyond that I can't say what happened, because it was between GM and the owner at that point.
Keep in mind it doesn't matter that the engine can withstand more than it's tuned for. What counts is that GM is building a product and warrantying it. Once you've changed the tune it's no longer the engine that GM built and Tuned. Also bear in mind that regardless of what anyone else tells you (aftermarket tuners) they are not smarter than the collective intellect of GM's engineering department, period.
Please bear in mind, I am going off of my memory so cvn may not have been it. Plus since my memory is admittedly weak, you should take everything I've said with a grain of salt.
Jack.
P.S. I'm not saying aftermarket tuner's are bad, good ones are some of the smartest people you will know, I'm just saying know what your getting into!
I'm going to try and get this right. I haven't worked for a GM dealership in about three years, so I'm operating off of memory (and it's a weak one at that).
Background: I've worked for 2 Chevy dealerships. I was a Corvette specialist at one of them. Driveline/powertrain and performance specialist at both.
Other: Dyno opperator/tuning specialist on everything from Blown Alcohol Dragsters/Altereds/Funny cars to Vintage champ car to street cars. I have a considerable amount of experience on the LS engine as well.
When I worked for GM we could tell with the Tech2 (I believe it was the cvn) if the car had the pcm/tcm recalibrated. Even if it was returned to stock. I was personally involved in the case generation that called for the dismissal of warranty. Beyond that I can't say what happened, because it was between GM and the owner at that point.
Keep in mind it doesn't matter that the engine can withstand more than it's tuned for. What counts is that GM is building a product and warrantying it. Once you've changed the tune it's no longer the engine that GM built and Tuned. Also bear in mind that regardless of what anyone else tells you (aftermarket tuners) they are not smarter than the collective intellect of GM's engineering department, period.
Please bear in mind, I am going off of my memory so cvn may not have been it. Plus since my memory is admittedly weak, you should take everything I've said with a grain of salt.
Jack.
P.S. I'm not saying aftermarket tuner's are bad, good ones are some of the smartest people you will know, I'm just saying know what your getting into!
Last edited by BLOWNALKY01; 09-06-2011 at 06:00 PM.
09-06-2011, 06:01 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
09-06-2011, 06:57 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Georgetown TX
Posts: 815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll relate my experience regarding warranty and mods/tune. Granted, this was not done under the 5/50 powertrain deal, but people forget that a warranty claim (for most anything other than say, a catastrophic engine failure) is largely up to the discretion of the dealer.
When I owned my '02 Z06, I bought a GMPP warranty for it. I then proceeded to install a Procharger, headers, full exhaust, gauges etc. In other words, there was no question the car had been modded and tuned. Before I sold it (and while under warranty), I took it in for the EBCM replacement (as well as door lock solenoid and headlight motor R&R), and it was taken care of without question. If fact, the service writer even called me and asked me if I wanted the rear axle seals done, even though a drop had never hit the ground (just typical "weeping"). Both of these repairs would fall under the powertrain section, yet were completed.
Now, you could argue that the modifications clearly had nothing to do with any of the failures/repairs, and I feel confident that this would be the case even with my '11 GS, should it need similar work at some point. A broken ring land or a hole in a piston would have been another story... The point is, it rarely is an "all or none" situation, even if you are just addressing the 5/50 powertrain warranty.
When I owned my '02 Z06, I bought a GMPP warranty for it. I then proceeded to install a Procharger, headers, full exhaust, gauges etc. In other words, there was no question the car had been modded and tuned. Before I sold it (and while under warranty), I took it in for the EBCM replacement (as well as door lock solenoid and headlight motor R&R), and it was taken care of without question. If fact, the service writer even called me and asked me if I wanted the rear axle seals done, even though a drop had never hit the ground (just typical "weeping"). Both of these repairs would fall under the powertrain section, yet were completed.
Now, you could argue that the modifications clearly had nothing to do with any of the failures/repairs, and I feel confident that this would be the case even with my '11 GS, should it need similar work at some point. A broken ring land or a hole in a piston would have been another story... The point is, it rarely is an "all or none" situation, even if you are just addressing the 5/50 powertrain warranty.
09-06-2011, 06:59 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
I'll relate my experience regarding warranty and mods/tune. Granted, this was not done under the 5/50 powertrain deal, but people forget that a warranty claim (for most anything other than say, a catastrophic engine failure) is largely up to the discretion of the dealer.
When I owned my '02 Z06, I bought a GMPP warranty for it. I then proceeded to install a Procharger, headers, full exhaust, gauges etc. In other words, there was no question the car had been modded and tuned. Before I sold it (and while under warranty), I took it in for the EBCM replacement (as well as door lock solenoid and headlight motor R&R), and it was taken care of without question. If fact, the service writer even called me and asked me if I wanted the rear axle seals done, even though a drop had never hit the ground (just typical "weeping"). Both of these repairs would fall under the powertrain section, yet were completed.
Now, you could argue that the modifications clearly had nothing to do with any of the failures/repairs, and I feel confident that this would be the case even with my '11 GS, should it need similar work at some point. A broken ring land or a hole in a piston would have been another story... The point is, it rarely is an "all or none" situation, even if you are just addressing the 5/50 powertrain warranty.
When I owned my '02 Z06, I bought a GMPP warranty for it. I then proceeded to install a Procharger, headers, full exhaust, gauges etc. In other words, there was no question the car had been modded and tuned. Before I sold it (and while under warranty), I took it in for the EBCM replacement (as well as door lock solenoid and headlight motor R&R), and it was taken care of without question. If fact, the service writer even called me and asked me if I wanted the rear axle seals done, even though a drop had never hit the ground (just typical "weeping"). Both of these repairs would fall under the powertrain section, yet were completed.
Now, you could argue that the modifications clearly had nothing to do with any of the failures/repairs, and I feel confident that this would be the case even with my '11 GS, should it need similar work at some point. A broken ring land or a hole in a piston would have been another story... The point is, it rarely is an "all or none" situation, even if you are just addressing the 5/50 powertrain warranty.
09-06-2011, 08:41 PM
#47
Pro
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: Miami Florida
Posts: 682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C'mon, you can't be serious? This forum has on average 1,500 active posters...in all forums...at any one time. There are currently about 190,000 C6 Corvettes on the road. You can't base any reasonable facts on 7/10's of one percent population. Only 775 people have even viewed this thread.
And no one has ever reported a first hand account of denial of warranty service due to a tune. And no one has ever named a tuner who caused damage to their engine or powertrain.
Could it happen? Probably. And by now we've all heard about the "New GM" denying warranty service on cars built by the "Old GM" prior to 2009. So they'll probably do it again.
The facts speak for themselves. It really never happens. It's just an old wives tale. A ghost story, nothing more.
09-06-2011, 10:59 PM
#49
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Big Bend Country, TX
Posts: 29,114
Received 2,186 Likes
on
1,337 Posts
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
NCM Lifetime Member
09-06-2011, 11:02 PM
#50
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Big Bend Country, TX
Posts: 29,114
Received 2,186 Likes
on
1,337 Posts
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
NCM Lifetime Member
Is there anyone here that has had a warranty issue denied because of a tune?
Now, if your car also has such things as headers, aftermarket cam, head work, superchargers, or anything like that ... there is no reason to post about being denied powertrain warranty work.
Were talking about basically a stock C6 Corvette with just a tune.
Anyone?
Now, if your car also has such things as headers, aftermarket cam, head work, superchargers, or anything like that ... there is no reason to post about being denied powertrain warranty work.
Were talking about basically a stock C6 Corvette with just a tune.
Anyone?
09-07-2011, 12:41 AM
#51
Former Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Ossining New York
Posts: 11,792
Received 243 Likes
on
183 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Yup... What he said.
I'll relate my experience regarding warranty and mods/tune. Granted, this was not done under the 5/50 powertrain deal, but people forget that a warranty claim (for most anything other than say, a catastrophic engine failure) is largely up to the discretion of the dealer.
When I owned my '02 Z06, I bought a GMPP warranty for it. I then proceeded to install a Procharger, headers, full exhaust, gauges etc. In other words, there was no question the car had been modded and tuned. Before I sold it (and while under warranty), I took it in for the EBCM replacement (as well as door lock solenoid and headlight motor R&R), and it was taken care of without question. If fact, the service writer even called me and asked me if I wanted the rear axle seals done, even though a drop had never hit the ground (just typical "weeping"). Both of these repairs would fall under the powertrain section, yet were completed.
Now, you could argue that the modifications clearly had nothing to do with any of the failures/repairs, and I feel confident that this would be the case even with my '11 GS, should it need similar work at some point. A broken ring land or a hole in a piston would have been another story... The point is, it rarely is an "all or none" situation, even if you are just addressing the 5/50 powertrain warranty.
When I owned my '02 Z06, I bought a GMPP warranty for it. I then proceeded to install a Procharger, headers, full exhaust, gauges etc. In other words, there was no question the car had been modded and tuned. Before I sold it (and while under warranty), I took it in for the EBCM replacement (as well as door lock solenoid and headlight motor R&R), and it was taken care of without question. If fact, the service writer even called me and asked me if I wanted the rear axle seals done, even though a drop had never hit the ground (just typical "weeping"). Both of these repairs would fall under the powertrain section, yet were completed.
Now, you could argue that the modifications clearly had nothing to do with any of the failures/repairs, and I feel confident that this would be the case even with my '11 GS, should it need similar work at some point. A broken ring land or a hole in a piston would have been another story... The point is, it rarely is an "all or none" situation, even if you are just addressing the 5/50 powertrain warranty.
775 people have viewed this thread and they've probably viewed the other million threads dealing with this subject.
And no one has ever reported a first hand account of denial of warranty service due to a tune. And no one has ever named a tuner who caused damage to their engine or powertrain.
Could it happen? Probably. And by now we've all heard about the "New GM" denying warranty service on cars built by the "Old GM" prior to 2009. So they'll probably do it again.
The facts speak for themselves. It really never happens. It's just an old wives tale. A ghost story, nothing more.
And no one has ever reported a first hand account of denial of warranty service due to a tune. And no one has ever named a tuner who caused damage to their engine or powertrain.
Could it happen? Probably. And by now we've all heard about the "New GM" denying warranty service on cars built by the "Old GM" prior to 2009. So they'll probably do it again.
The facts speak for themselves. It really never happens. It's just an old wives tale. A ghost story, nothing more.
I recall reading a thread on the G8 forum regarding someone flashing their tune back to stock and getting warranty repair while going through the complete GM bulletin procedure. For newer diesel trucks the ECM has a counter that shows how many times the ECM has been flashed and some diesel owners have been denied warranty based off of that counter despite returning their tune to stock. I don't know if there is currently anyway around this.
To my knowledge LS2, LS3, LS7 corvettes from 05-09 don't have this counter.
To my knowledge LS2, LS3, LS7 corvettes from 05-09 don't have this counter.
When I worked for GM we could tell with the Tech2 (I believe it was the cvn) if the car had the pcm/tcm recalibrated. Even if it was returned to stock.
The dealer CAN NOT TELL.
They CAN tell if the TUNE IS IN THE CAR.
If it has been removed, they CAN NOT TELL...
Take that for what it's worth.
If you mod your car and you bust it.... YOU SHOULD PAY.
And no one has ever reported a first hand account of denial of warranty service due to a tune. And no one has ever named a tuner who caused damage to their engine or powertrain.
While it MAY HAVE happened once or twice.... LS2 and especially LS3/A6 vehicles
DO NOT BREAK.....If they do, more likely something is wrong with YOU and
not the car for that to happen.
Let's put this in perspective, and in ENGLISH to make it easy to understand....
If you have a cam and/or a supercharger....
THEN YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE A TUNE.
If you bust it.... ANY OF THOSE 3 MODS will cause GM to....
(Let's learn this term cause it's important.....)
DENY WARRANTY COVERAGE FOR POWERTRAIN ITEMS.
(which, in English means.... YOU PAY for it.
For all you people interested in tuning your vehicles or installing headers or whatever.....
You CAN'T HAVE A WARRANTY CLAIM DENIED...
IF YOUR CAR DOES NOT BREAK!
And they NEVER BREAK....
Pretty simple math.
I'll say it again....and again...and AGAIN....
If you break a C6 you've abused it and most likely the problem was YOU.
But, if C6's DON'T BREAK then you CAN'T have a WARRANTY ISSUE.
(MY) TUNING DOESN'T BREAK C6's.
So, Therefore.... TUNED C6's = DON'T HAVE WARRANTY PROBLEMS.
Told you. Simple Math.
For the last time....
If your car is broken bad, and has a tune PRESENTLY INSTALLED, and is at the GM dealership....
You MIGHT have a problem...Depending on the breakage and the shop you are at.
Fact is, C6's are AMAZING CARS...
From what I see, it's the YOUNGER more Abusive drivers that mod the cars with
Blowers and cams (and tunes) and they DON'T have PROBLEMS, and don't seem to care...
and they DON'T BREAK.
Sad part is, all the older, more responsible, retired, dudes who BARELY CRACK THE
THROTTLE 50% EVER...
For some strange reason seem to be FRIGHTENED by all the crap on the forum
about warranty and tunes and that group of easy going guys is MISSING OUT
ON ALL THE BENEFITS OF TUNING THEIR CARS....
These guys could put 500,000 miles on their C6's and NEVER BREAK EM...
And all the whining, crying, and blubbering about tuning and warranties
has got all you fellas SOOOO AFRAID to TUNE/ENJOY your cars it's just SAD.
None of GM's policies with respect to warranties have changed in many years....
Back in the C5 days when they were hot off the press....
NOBODY EVER WORRIED OR CONSIDERED VOIDING NEW CAR WARRANTIES
and at the time, Dollar for Dollar, those cars were WORTH BIG MONEY,
MORE MISUNDERSTOOD by tuners and modders, and super complex....
Nobody worried then....
It's just something that seems to have gotten into the drinking water
the last year or two.....like a virus.
Silly people, you're all worried about busting something (or having problems with a car)
that just simply DOES NOT BREAK. The facts are the facts...
C6's DON'T BREAK = NO WARRANTY CONCERNS.
Silly Rabbits....
Chuck CoW
Last edited by Chuck CoW; 09-07-2011 at 12:47 AM.
09-07-2011, 06:35 AM
#52
Race Director
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 13,249
Received 3,066 Likes
on
2,073 Posts
2021 C6 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Well, Chuck has made a pretty good point here.
I was the one that asked a simple question ... Has anyone that has a "tune" on basically there stock C6 (no aftermarket cam, supercharger, headwork, ect) ever have a warranty issue denied because of a tune?
I personally have never read a post where this has happened.
Have anyone of you ever read a post on this Corvette Forum where some poor guy was denied warranty work or worse yet .. had there car's warranty "Revoked/ Blacklisted" because of a tune?
I haven't (maybe I missed the thread that told of this horror story)
I was the one that asked a simple question ... Has anyone that has a "tune" on basically there stock C6 (no aftermarket cam, supercharger, headwork, ect) ever have a warranty issue denied because of a tune?
I personally have never read a post where this has happened.
Have anyone of you ever read a post on this Corvette Forum where some poor guy was denied warranty work or worse yet .. had there car's warranty "Revoked/ Blacklisted" because of a tune?
I haven't (maybe I missed the thread that told of this horror story)
09-07-2011, 10:31 AM
#53
Racer
Member Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've scoured the forums and only found one post where a guy bought a vette with a tune (and other mods), it broke, he tried to reflash it, it didn't work and was denied. That's the closest I've seen.
So, you'll never get a (straight) answer to your question. My AutoCal just showed up yesterday so I'm getting ready to tune my 11 GS A6.
Only problem is the road in our subdivision is being torn up/redone and I won't be driving for about 3 weeks anyhow.
So, you'll never get a (straight) answer to your question. My AutoCal just showed up yesterday so I'm getting ready to tune my 11 GS A6.
Only problem is the road in our subdivision is being torn up/redone and I won't be driving for about 3 weeks anyhow.
09-07-2011, 12:20 PM
#54
Burning Brakes
My Previous 2006 C6 A6 was tuned, long tube headers, axle back exhaust, and a halltech intake. 
At around 22k ish on the clock, I noticed the harmonic balancer was wobbling. 
So, I took it to my dealer. Fearful of having to pay for it myself, I was upfront about all my mods to the car... Their response?
Them: "Okay, no big deal. Is the car cammed?"
Me: "No"
Them: "So you've never touched the balancer?"
Me: "Nope"
Them: "No problem, we'll call you when it's done. Car sounds awesome by the way."
Lesson? Most of your service guys are car guys too! If you are asking for something to be fixed which isn't caused by your mods. 9.9999 times out of 10 they will fix it. But, for the other 0.00001 remember... you have to pay to play...
I think a lot of this argument has to do with -
a: the quality of your stealership. In my mind the good dealers understand that these are performance machines, that some owners will want to responsibly mod.
b: the quality of your tuner. If you are interested in a good tune don't take your Vette down to "Joe Bob's house of perfessional tunein' and stuff"
But rather to a good reputable tuner!
Ask around! Including your Vette guys at the dealer! (You know who they are) They will probably recommend someone they use!
At around 22k ish on the clock, I noticed the harmonic balancer was wobbling. So, I took it to my dealer. Fearful of having to pay for it myself, I was upfront about all my mods to the car... Their response? Them: "Okay, no big deal. Is the car cammed?"
Me: "No"
Them: "So you've never touched the balancer?"
Me: "Nope"
Them: "No problem, we'll call you when it's done. Car sounds awesome by the way."
Lesson? Most of your service guys are car guys too! If you are asking for something to be fixed which isn't caused by your mods. 9.9999 times out of 10 they will fix it. But, for the other 0.00001 remember... you have to pay to play...
I think a lot of this argument has to do with -
a: the quality of your stealership. In my mind the good dealers understand that these are performance machines, that some owners will want to responsibly mod.
b: the quality of your tuner. If you are interested in a good tune don't take your Vette down to "Joe Bob's house of perfessional tunein' and stuff"
But rather to a good reputable tuner!Ask around! Including your Vette guys at the dealer! (You know who they are) They will probably recommend someone they use!
09-07-2011, 01:42 PM
#55
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 2009
Location: Bucks Co. / outside Philadelphia PA
Posts: 5,437
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
My Previous 2006 C6 A6 was tuned, long tube headers, axle back exhaust, and a halltech intake. At around 22k ish on the clock, I noticed the harmonic balancer was wobbling. So, I took it to my dealer. Fearful of having to pay for it myself, I was upfront about all my mods to the car... Their response?
Them: "Okay, no big deal. Is the car cammed?"
Me: "No"
Them: "So you've never touched the balancer?"
Me: "Nope"
Them: "No problem, we'll call you when it's done. Car sounds awesome by the way."
Lesson? Most of your service guys are car guys too! If you are asking for something to be fixed which isn't caused by your mods. 9.9999 times out of 10 they will fix it. But, for the other 0.00001 remember... you have to pay to play...
I think a lot of this argument has to do with -
a: the quality of your stealership. In my mind the good dealers understand that these are performance machines, that some owners will want to responsibly mod.
b: the quality of your tuner. If you are interested in a good tune don't take your Vette down to "Joe Bob's house of perfessional tunein' and stuff" But rather to a good reputable tuner!
Ask around! Including your Vette guys at the dealer! (You know who they are) They will probably recommend someone they use!
At around 22k ish on the clock, I noticed the harmonic balancer was wobbling. So, I took it to my dealer. Fearful of having to pay for it myself, I was upfront about all my mods to the car... Their response? Them: "Okay, no big deal. Is the car cammed?"
Me: "No"
Them: "So you've never touched the balancer?"
Me: "Nope"
Them: "No problem, we'll call you when it's done. Car sounds awesome by the way."
Lesson? Most of your service guys are car guys too! If you are asking for something to be fixed which isn't caused by your mods. 9.9999 times out of 10 they will fix it. But, for the other 0.00001 remember... you have to pay to play...
I think a lot of this argument has to do with -
a: the quality of your stealership. In my mind the good dealers understand that these are performance machines, that some owners will want to responsibly mod.
b: the quality of your tuner. If you are interested in a good tune don't take your Vette down to "Joe Bob's house of perfessional tunein' and stuff"
But rather to a good reputable tuner!Ask around! Including your Vette guys at the dealer! (You know who they are) They will probably recommend someone they use!
09-07-2011, 02:20 PM
#56
Racer
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: La Verne CA
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
09-07-2011, 02:38 PM
#58
Team Owner
Well, Chuck has made a pretty good point here.
I was the one that asked a simple question ... Has anyone that has a "tune" on basically there stock C6 (no aftermarket cam, supercharger, headwork, ect) ever have a warranty issue denied because of a tune?
I personally have never read a post where this has happened.
Have anyone of you ever read a post on this Corvette Forum where some poor guy was denied warranty work or worse yet .. had there car's warranty "Revoked/ Blacklisted" because of a tune?
I haven't (maybe I missed the thread that told of this horror story)
I was the one that asked a simple question ... Has anyone that has a "tune" on basically there stock C6 (no aftermarket cam, supercharger, headwork, ect) ever have a warranty issue denied because of a tune?
I personally have never read a post where this has happened.
Have anyone of you ever read a post on this Corvette Forum where some poor guy was denied warranty work or worse yet .. had there car's warranty "Revoked/ Blacklisted" because of a tune?
I haven't (maybe I missed the thread that told of this horror story)
GM has adopted a policy to cancel any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence of a non-GM (aftermarket) calibration is confirmed - even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.
To your other question, there have been a few.
Long read but a lot of interesting information and two different members post in here about loss of warranty over mods (OP but you don't learn until post 12 that it also has a tune, and post 86.) Mods are headers, exhaust and tune.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...se-help-5.html
Not a tune but just headers and hi-flow cats which caused a cylinder detonation.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...post1565254040
Worse still, headers only (dates way back to before the bulliten on aftermarket calibrations).
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...anty-void.html
Linked from Corvette Forum to TBSS forum. LS2 TBSS with tune and voided warranty (discovered when engine blew).
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/othe...ed-w-tune.html
Regardless of any of this, prior points made by many are valid. It is at risk. While there is no magic formula and no wave of the wand wiping out of the warranty just because you did it. Reactions and actions vary by dealer but make no mistake, if any catastrophic drivetrain problem occurs, the dealership simply cannot proceed with the repair until authorized to do so by GM. In order to gain that authorization they will need to send info from the car and the Tech II. Bottom line, sometimes you have to play to pay. Get educated, weigh the risks vs. the benefits and make your decision.
