Rebel 1

Cop out? Never said anything about cop out. Your words. I said flushing/exchange is another way to separate people from more of their money. You can DIY a trans in your driveway for $70.00 or less for fluid and filter. I like Mobil 1 ATF fluid.
I could, however, see 1 purpose for exchanging fluid and that would be if a trans severely overheated to the point of burning the fluid, but even then you would want to change the filter.
If you check your manual the only flushing required is the cooling system. Manual says to "change trans fluid and filter" for servicing.
When the pan and filter is dropped it is 5-7 quarts out not "a few quarts".
Times may change but auto trans still operate the same. In normal operation, material from bands, clutches and metal are in the fluid and go to the pan and then to the filter. Failure to change filters, (especially ones near clogged) as required will kill a trans because little or no fluid will be able to be pumped throughout the unit as required.
Where did you hear that "these filters will last 60 -100k miles"? Much depends on your driving and location. Tell you what, drop your pan at 25k miles and look at it before you clean it and the magnet. There will be concentrations of nasty grey stuff there plus metal stuck to the magnet. Pull the filter and lay it in a clean pan. Watch the grey goo come out of it. I have serviced hundreds of auto trans in 41 years. When out of Tech school, i used my shop for commercial business as mechanic working on all types of vehicles and have seen it all. A good rule of thumb to go by is change filter and fluid every 25k miles and your trans will live a long life.
Say what you want about particles "not getting dislodged during a flush or exchange". I know someone had it done and his trans failed within a week. Just some months ago i read on the C5 forum a guy had his trans fail after the same deal. If this exchange method works for you then by all means stay the course, but for me i'll stick with what is a recommended and proven method of servicing auto trans.

Easy Rhino

I hate to break up a good internet fight when it's just getting started, but who cares what the other guy does?

Just do what you want and carry on.:thumbs

Ketchum

Another post used the wording 'cop out' I've seen indside thousands of auto trans pans over 30 years. Many makes and models. I know whats inside them. I know what works.

dkvetteguy

it sure does! where 'd you did u get your info?

Ketchum

Sure a fluid exchange can be done DIY and cheaper the paying a shop. Duh. Its doable in the drive. I won't. You can if you want. 5 to 7 quarts is a 'few quarts' compared to whats in most automatic transmissions have in them. Most manufactures don't recommend a filter change under severe guidelines at 60k and non severe at 100k. Some not at all. Fluid exchange being that the trans itself is moving the fliud all your doing is breaking the circuit and adding new to the mix as the old leaves through a line. Why should that dislodge any debris. Nothing has really changed other then its fresh fliud going in.

Rebel 1

Fluid And Filter changes when specified are essential to maintain a healthy auto trans. This is the CORRECT and Standard Procedure Used and Recommended by GM, other car makers and techs. It's also in the owner and service manual.

A typical automatic holds around 10 qts. Dropping the pan and filter drains 6-7 qts. See "Pan removal and filter replacement". Much more than "a few quarts".

Fluid/service machine exchanges are "gimmicks" started by some dealers to increase their profit margin, nothing more.

Mad*Max

Ketchum

Most automatics hold a lot more then 10 quarts. Usually 16 plus.

ryker

Mixing old with new fluids. First item to take note on. The "old fluid" isn't really bad fluid. The filter cleans the fluid and trams fluid unless it's been cooked can last a very long time. Many cars are sold with lifetime trans fluid.

A honda holds 5qts good for 100k miles but only calls for a drain and refill of 1.5qts. Leaving 3.5qts of old fluid.

Your ok for a daily or weekend driver with
a: following the manual
b: flush (filter at some point prior to service manual limits)
c: drain and filter


These transmission are used across GM line. Trucks and SUVs that receive heavy loads and rough conditions and drivers probably never service them. Correct? Are there any issues known with the other models?

Rebel 1

16 plus Which ones??
I have built autos. over a period of 30 years that held 8 - 11 qts. total.

Pinky...

Ford 4r100.

Either method is okay. A transmission fluid flush/exchange is really the best way to do it followed by changing the filter.

When you normally drop the pan, you don't lose all the fluid, whereas an exchange, it flushes out all the old fluid and then some and even uses a bit of new fluid. However, on older neglected trans, this can sometimes clog a filter with particles, which is why you would then want to change the filter as well.

So technically, both you guys are right. That said, if I was doing it low mileage, I would exchange the fluid followed by a filter change at 50k.

Ketchum

You been building transmission on little econo cars?

HOXXOH

The only flush of transmission fluid listed in the service manual is to flush the cooler independently of the transmission.

The whole system holds 13.24 quarts. About 3/4 quart is in the cooler and lines, which leaves 12.5 quarts in the transmission. Dropping the pan will drain about 6.5 quarts, leaving the remaining 6 quarts mostly in the converter.

I dropped the pan, changed the filter, and drained the lines when I installed a dry 3600 stall converter. At that time it was like starting from scratch. I have about 35K miles since then, but will wait about 5-10K more before I change fluid.

I plan to siphon the pan dry, then refill. Drive it for 50-100 miles and drop the pan, change the filter, and refill. I will have used about 13 quarts total, but I'll have a new filter and about 75% new fluid. That method uses less fluid than an exchange, has about the same effective amount of new fluid, and has a clean pan and filter.

Short of a complete overhaul, that does a better job.

Rebel 1

16 qts. is nice to know about what a Ford vehicle holds, but we are talking about Vettes

Other member said "MOST autos hold a lot more than 10 qts. Usually 16 plus".
Wrong.

While i agree with much of what you say, a flush/exchange is something dealers started to increase their profit margin and is totally unnecessary for the long life of a automatic trans. As stated before, i know of several cases, one personally, who had a flush/exchange performed and the Trans Failed.
The ONLY thing GM states to do is:
"Change automatic transmission fluid And filter every 50,000 mi.(severe service)". Regular service change at 100,000 mi.
I change fluid and filter and it costs $70.00.

The problem is, some people Never change it.

Rebel 1

Never have. Built Powerglides to Turbo 400's.

Ketchum

Of course SERVICES are to increase profit margins! Thats business. I have handled in the thousands of transmission fliud exchanges. I have seen the failure rate on fleets and customers vehicles reduced tremendously doing this service. Never had that service cause a failure. If the automatic had issues and was doomed to start with still failed. I have had 'fliud exchange' and using the BG conditioner help,not cure 'morning sickness' which is hardened seals. In my humble opinion that simple bladder machine to exchange old fliud for new is the best thing to ever happen to customers and automatic transmissions. Mail carriers thought it was a savior as did general customers that drove high mileage. Fleet owners brought their mangers in to see how and get a idea of the operation of the service. I and others I know do such to our personal vehicles and have for years now. Many ways to skin a cat. This is my prefered way to service automatic transmissions. I was never one to only change half the oil in my engine and or automatic transmission. In the 'old' days units had pans pulled and holes drilled in torque converters to get all the fliud out. This way is not obtrusive.

Rebel 1

I'm sure your shop made plenty of money

Many people have little to No knowledge when it comes to the mechanical part of a car. They rely on a mechanic to treat them fairly and honestly. If someone told me their dealer wanted to exchange/flush the trans without a new filter, i would tell them to run, don't walk and find an Honest dealer and do it the Right way, i.e. Drop pan and filter. THIS IS GM's and My Preferred Method.

You Actually drilled holes in torque converters to get the fluid out??? I am sure That One would make engineers hair stand on end! Can you say "Metal filings"?

Wow. I have heard it all.

carpe dm

A "flush" is what it is worth.... Change the fluid and the filter! DO not flush any gunk through your system!

Gering

psxer989

I called the chevy deal near me in SoCal. $165 for a flush. I asked how much to actually drop the pan, change the filter and replace the fluid, $290!