Why is Sunoco not a top tier gas
10-20-2011, 05:38 PM
#21
I did an earlier post on this when this year's ratings came out. I can't remember, but I believe Shell and Exxon were neck and neck for the top spot. And some of the gasolines you would have thought were better were actually at the bottom.
However, the most interesting post came from the oil engineer referenced above. He explained at length what it's about and whether it's beneficial. But the one thing he made clear is that all companies have different additives and blend them differently and more importantly, these different additives affect different parts of the engine differently.
Bottom line? He suggested that you rotate your gasolines every few thousand miles. If you run Sunoco, switch to Exxon or Shell for a few thousand miles, or vice versa. Not all detergents are the same nor do they perform the same. Swapping them out every so often ensures you get the best of all gasolines.
In other words, by rotating the gasolines, you ensure that your engine reaps the benefits of the various additives.
Made sense to me.
You can do a search on my name and find the original post.
However, the most interesting post came from the oil engineer referenced above. He explained at length what it's about and whether it's beneficial. But the one thing he made clear is that all companies have different additives and blend them differently and more importantly, these different additives affect different parts of the engine differently.
Bottom line? He suggested that you rotate your gasolines every few thousand miles. If you run Sunoco, switch to Exxon or Shell for a few thousand miles, or vice versa. Not all detergents are the same nor do they perform the same. Swapping them out every so often ensures you get the best of all gasolines.
In other words, by rotating the gasolines, you ensure that your engine reaps the benefits of the various additives.
Made sense to me.
You can do a search on my name and find the original post.
10-20-2011, 05:42 PM
#22
CF Senior Member
Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: Tucson Arizona
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They probably don't want to join the club. IMO hardly anyone pays attention to which stations are Top Tier providers. It's not very relevant for the average consumer....most people probably never heard of it.
10-20-2011, 05:45 PM
#23
Team Owner
I did an earlier post on this when this year's ratings came out. I can't remember, but I believe Shell and Exxon were neck and neck for the top spot. And some of the gasolines you would have thought were better were actually at the bottom.
However, the most interesting post came from the oil engineer referenced above. He explained at length what it's about and whether it's beneficial. But the one thing he made clear is that all companies have different additives and blend them differently and more importantly, these different additives affect different parts of the engine differently.
Bottom line? He suggested that you rotate your gasolines every few thousand miles. If you run Sunoco, switch to Exxon or Shell for a few thousand miles, or vice versa. Not all detergents are the same nor do they perform the same. Swapping them out every so often ensures you get the best of all gasolines.
In other words, by rotating the gasolines, you ensure that your engine reaps the benefits of the various additives.
Made sense to me.
You can do a search on my name and find the original post.
However, the most interesting post came from the oil engineer referenced above. He explained at length what it's about and whether it's beneficial. But the one thing he made clear is that all companies have different additives and blend them differently and more importantly, these different additives affect different parts of the engine differently.
Bottom line? He suggested that you rotate your gasolines every few thousand miles. If you run Sunoco, switch to Exxon or Shell for a few thousand miles, or vice versa. Not all detergents are the same nor do they perform the same. Swapping them out every so often ensures you get the best of all gasolines.
In other words, by rotating the gasolines, you ensure that your engine reaps the benefits of the various additives.
Made sense to me.
You can do a search on my name and find the original post.
10-20-2011, 05:46 PM
#24
maybe this will be helpful ?
I just found it after a bit of "searching" here on the CF: www.toptiergas.com
I just found it after a bit of "searching" here on the CF: www.toptiergas.com
10-20-2011, 05:46 PM
#25
Team Owner
10-20-2011, 06:01 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
The way I became aware of the TOP TIER Gasoline, I had fueled my Cadillac up at a gas station. Later that day I went to drive the car, it simply would not start.
The car was under warranty and was towed to the Cadillac Garage. The mechanic told me that I had not fueled the car at a Top Tier Station. He proceeded to give me a GM Bulletin that reads very much like the Top Tier Web Site.
I am not a mechanic, I do however, place a great deal of credence in what the manufacture and engineers tell me.
Since that time I have not had a problem and rarely have I used a facility that is not on that list.
There, I got it off my chest..... thanks for reading it.
The car was under warranty and was towed to the Cadillac Garage. The mechanic told me that I had not fueled the car at a Top Tier Station. He proceeded to give me a GM Bulletin that reads very much like the Top Tier Web Site.
I am not a mechanic, I do however, place a great deal of credence in what the manufacture and engineers tell me.
Since that time I have not had a problem and rarely have I used a facility that is not on that list.
There, I got it off my chest..... thanks for reading it.
10-20-2011, 06:05 PM
#28
Team Owner
The way I became aware of the TOP TIER Gasoline, I had fueled my Cadillac up at a gas station. Later that day I went to drive the car, it simply would not start.
The car was under warranty and was towed to the Cadillac Garage. The mechanic told me that I had not fueled the car at a Top Tier Station. He proceeded to give me a GM Bulletin that reads very much like the Top Tier Web Site.
I am not a mechanic, I do however, place a great deal of credence in what the manufacture and engineers tell me.
Since that time I have not had a problem and rarely have I used a facility that is not on that list.
There, I got it off my chest..... thanks for reading it.
The car was under warranty and was towed to the Cadillac Garage. The mechanic told me that I had not fueled the car at a Top Tier Station. He proceeded to give me a GM Bulletin that reads very much like the Top Tier Web Site.
I am not a mechanic, I do however, place a great deal of credence in what the manufacture and engineers tell me.
Since that time I have not had a problem and rarely have I used a facility that is not on that list.
There, I got it off my chest..... thanks for reading it.
In fairness, for every one of your scenarios there are probably maybe a million of the never had a problem fueling scenarios.
10-20-2011, 06:08 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
To Racer,
I totally agree with you, I however, did have it happen to me and that is all that I was trying to share. I can't be the only one.
Your statement is valid and I agree with it.
I totally agree with you, I however, did have it happen to me and that is all that I was trying to share. I can't be the only one.
Your statement is valid and I agree with it.
10-20-2011, 06:11 PM
#30
Team Owner
, but you know this forum and members love to post any little thing that happens to their Corvettes, you do not see very many fuel related issues on this forum and as I said, if there are problems with something Corvette related we see it posted ad nauseam...
10-20-2011, 06:21 PM
#31
Race Director
I have never used Sunoco gas. I found this...
http://www.355nation.net/forum/servi...-u-s-only.html
What is TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a new class of gasoline with enhanced detergency. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards developed by six automotive companies that exceed the detergent requirements imposed by the EPA.
Where Can TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Be Purchased?
The TOP TIER program began on May 3, 2004 and many fuel marketers have joined the program and have introduced TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline. This is a voluntary program and not all fuel marketers will offer this product. Once fuel marketers make public announcements, they will appear on a list of brands that meet the TOP TIER standards.
Where Can I find the Latest Information on TOP TIER Fuel and Retailers?
On the web, please visit Top Tier Gasoline for additional information and updated retailer lists.
Who developed TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards were developed by six automotive companies: Audi, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen.
Why was TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline developed?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline was developed to increase the level of detergent additive in gasoline. The EPA requires that all gasoline sold in the U.S. contain a detergent additive. However, the requirement is minimal and in many cases, is not sufficient to keep engines clean. In order to meet TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards, a higher level of detergent is needed than what is required by the EPA. Also, TOP TIER was developed to give fuel marketers the opportunity to differentiate their product.
Why did the six automotive companies join together to develop TOP TIER?
All six corporations recognized the benefits to both the vehicle and the consumer. Also, joining together emphasized that low detergency is an issue of concern to several automotive companies.
What are the benefits of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help keep engines cleaner than gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" set by the EPA. Clean engines help provide optimal fuel economy and performance and reduced emissions. Also, use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help reduce deposit related concerns.
http://www.toptiergas.com/
http://www.355nation.net/forum/servi...-u-s-only.html
What is TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a new class of gasoline with enhanced detergency. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards developed by six automotive companies that exceed the detergent requirements imposed by the EPA.
Where Can TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Be Purchased?
The TOP TIER program began on May 3, 2004 and many fuel marketers have joined the program and have introduced TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline. This is a voluntary program and not all fuel marketers will offer this product. Once fuel marketers make public announcements, they will appear on a list of brands that meet the TOP TIER standards.
Where Can I find the Latest Information on TOP TIER Fuel and Retailers?
On the web, please visit Top Tier Gasoline for additional information and updated retailer lists.
Who developed TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards were developed by six automotive companies: Audi, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen.
Why was TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline developed?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline was developed to increase the level of detergent additive in gasoline. The EPA requires that all gasoline sold in the U.S. contain a detergent additive. However, the requirement is minimal and in many cases, is not sufficient to keep engines clean. In order to meet TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards, a higher level of detergent is needed than what is required by the EPA. Also, TOP TIER was developed to give fuel marketers the opportunity to differentiate their product.
Why did the six automotive companies join together to develop TOP TIER?
All six corporations recognized the benefits to both the vehicle and the consumer. Also, joining together emphasized that low detergency is an issue of concern to several automotive companies.
What are the benefits of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help keep engines cleaner than gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" set by the EPA. Clean engines help provide optimal fuel economy and performance and reduced emissions. Also, use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help reduce deposit related concerns.
http://www.toptiergas.com/
10-20-2011, 06:52 PM
#33
Team Owner
doing a google search I found this on another site:
National Products Group is a subsidiary of Quick Trip Corporation.
http://www.powerprofiles.com/profile...P+INC-TULSA-OK
Draw your own conclusions.
"did a 'whois' lookup and came up with the following:
Registrant:
National Products Group
P.O. Box 3475
Tulsa, OK 74101
US
Domain Name: TOPTIERGAS.COM
Administrative Contact :
Denny, Jim
ynnedj@aol.com
P.O. Box 3475
Tulsa, OK 74101
US
Phone: 918-836-8551
Also went to http://www.aboutus.org/TopTierGas.com and got the following:
Top Tier Gasoline
Description
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a recently established new standard for gasoline performance. Four of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.
Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.
These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. That’s something both drivers and automakers want to avoid.
Address
PO Box 3475
Tulsa OK 74101 US
Contact
National Products Group
+1 918 836 8551, Fax: +1 571 434 4620
And checking into Google Finance, found this gem - check out the matching phone number and address across all three entries:
QuikTrip Corporation owns and operates convenience stores and travel centers located in nine states in the United States. The Company has more than 405 convenience stores, which supply gasoline and sell a variety of products, including 16 to 20 different fountain drinks, coffee and cappuccino, smoothies, Hotzi breakfast and lunch sandwiches, Quik 'n Tasty sandwiches, hot dogs, energy drinks, Hydr8 sports drink and QuikTrip Taquitos. QuikTrip also operates 16 truck stops that offer restrooms, showers, scales, food and beverages, trucking fuel and other truck stop location services. The Company's gasoline is guaranteed, which means that it guarantees to reimburse customers for any repairs related to the use of its gasoline. Its QT Fleetmaster truck fleet fueling diesel fueling program offers businesses customized programs designed to fit their fuel-purchasing needs.
PO Box 3475
Tulsa, OK 74101
USA - Map
+1-918-836-8551 (Phone)
Company website:
http://www.quiktrip.com/
Registrant:
National Products Group
P.O. Box 3475
Tulsa, OK 74101
US
Domain Name: TOPTIERGAS.COM
Administrative Contact :
Denny, Jim
ynnedj@aol.com
P.O. Box 3475
Tulsa, OK 74101
US
Phone: 918-836-8551
Also went to http://www.aboutus.org/TopTierGas.com and got the following:
Top Tier Gasoline
Description
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a recently established new standard for gasoline performance. Four of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.
Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.
These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. That’s something both drivers and automakers want to avoid.
Address
PO Box 3475
Tulsa OK 74101 US
Contact
National Products Group
+1 918 836 8551, Fax: +1 571 434 4620
And checking into Google Finance, found this gem - check out the matching phone number and address across all three entries:
QuikTrip Corporation owns and operates convenience stores and travel centers located in nine states in the United States. The Company has more than 405 convenience stores, which supply gasoline and sell a variety of products, including 16 to 20 different fountain drinks, coffee and cappuccino, smoothies, Hotzi breakfast and lunch sandwiches, Quik 'n Tasty sandwiches, hot dogs, energy drinks, Hydr8 sports drink and QuikTrip Taquitos. QuikTrip also operates 16 truck stops that offer restrooms, showers, scales, food and beverages, trucking fuel and other truck stop location services. The Company's gasoline is guaranteed, which means that it guarantees to reimburse customers for any repairs related to the use of its gasoline. Its QT Fleetmaster truck fleet fueling diesel fueling program offers businesses customized programs designed to fit their fuel-purchasing needs.
PO Box 3475
Tulsa, OK 74101
USA - Map
+1-918-836-8551 (Phone)
Company website:
http://www.quiktrip.com/
National Products Group is a subsidiary of Quick Trip Corporation.
http://www.powerprofiles.com/profile...P+INC-TULSA-OK
Draw your own conclusions.
10-20-2011, 07:27 PM
#34
Team Owner
Please buy only Top Tier gasoline......it is the best and the only thing good enough for your Corvette. Also, the marketing hype is good for my dividends.
10-20-2011, 07:40 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 2009
Location: Bucks Co. / outside Philadelphia PA
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I was reading through the owner's manual today and visited toptiergas.com. In Canada, Sunoco is listed as a top tier gas, but in the US, it is not. In the Northeast, Sunoco is one of the few brands that offer 93 octane. I'm confused.
Please don't turn this into a 'best gas' p**sing contest...
Thx
GP
Please don't turn this into a 'best gas' p**sing contest...
Thx
GP
You pay the money, you get on the list. It's advertising. Not being on the list means nothing more than they don't pay for this advertising campaign.
10-20-2011, 07:40 PM
#36
Team Owner
10-20-2011, 09:26 PM
#37
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Big Bend Country, TX
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
NCM Lifetime Member
Maybe or maybe not, I bought my Gas at Petro Canada for maybe 15 years when my dad worked there, then I switched to Co-Op for the last 18 years, never ever even had a thought cross my mind that I am harming my motors not buying from some list.....and I have had some serious HP cars. Personally, I think this topic is no different than those which oil is best threads.
10-20-2011, 09:35 PM
#38
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2000
Location: Far NW 'burbs of Chicago
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St. Jude Donor '13
Yes, you have to pay to get on the list. But that doesn't mean you don't also have to prove you meet the specs.
We have a retired oil engineer who says Top Tier really means something, I'm willing to entertain other viewpoints if substantiated.
10-20-2011, 11:05 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
Maybe or maybe not, I bought my Gas at Petro Canada for maybe 15 years when my dad worked there, then I switched to Co-Op for the last 18 years, never ever even had a thought cross my mind that I am harming my motors not buying from some list.....and I have had some serious HP cars. Personally, I think this topic is no different than those which oil is best threads.
I was afraid this was going to happen. I'm sorry I asked the question.
GP
Maybe or maybe not, I bought my Gas at Petro Canada for maybe 15 years when my dad worked there, then I switched to Co-Op for the last 18 years, never ever even had a thought cross my mind that I am harming my motors not buying from some list.....and I have had some serious HP cars. Personally, I think this topic is no different than those which oil is best threads.
I was afraid this was going to happen. I'm sorry I asked the question.
GP
10-20-2011, 11:09 PM
#40
Team Owner
To answer the original question, Sunoco isn't Top Tier in the U.S. because they either don't meet the specs or don't want to spend the money to prove they meet the specs. Also, to get Top Tier approval, ALL grades of their gas at ALL of their stations must meet the specs. BP Premium has an excellent reputation for cleanliness, and they say it meets the specs, but BP is not listed as Top Tier because their other grades aren't up to spec.
Some people say it's just a marketing gimmick, but we had a retired oil engineer posting here recently who claims there is a real difference.
Some people say it's just a marketing gimmick, but we had a retired oil engineer posting here recently who claims there is a real difference.
