Mobil 1 all marketing hype!
02-12-2012, 02:48 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
Anyone have any M1 used oil analysis's? I have a couple on my LS7 using two different oils.
02-12-2012, 03:50 PM
#27
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Mar 2000
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I work at a used Corvette dealership and we have sold over 1,000 Corvettes since 1992 and have never had one car come back with engine failure runing on Mobil 1.
We did have a 1995 Corvette that the owner got his oil changed at one of those quick lub places and after two years of them putting in non synthetic oil it wiped out the crankshaft.
We did have a 1995 Corvette that the owner got his oil changed at one of those quick lub places and after two years of them putting in non synthetic oil it wiped out the crankshaft.
02-12-2012, 04:11 PM
#28
Race Director
If we live close (I'm in NY) we can take my car or anyones car let it idle, and change the oil... without you knowing which is Mobil 1 and the other a cheep K Mart brand...
Oil WILL NOT change the idle characteristics of an engine unless you are going from a 0-20 to a 70 weight.. and even with that a good running V8 wont change how rough or smooth it idles based only on the BRAND of oil is in it !!!
02-12-2012, 04:16 PM
#29
Drifting
All of the oils that are constantly discussed on the forum are varying blends of group 2, group 3, and group 4 base oils. Groups 2 and 4 are very easy to define. Group 2 is conventional “dino” oil, simply refined from crude oil. Group 4 is made up of various synthetic, manufactured polymers, mostly poly alpha olefins or PAO. Almost all experts would agree that group 2 are lowest quality of the base oil groups. Group 3 are the toughest to define, both in terms of origin and quality. They start out as group 2, but are then subjected to extremely severe processing called hydrocracking, where hydrogen is added over a catalyst at pressures of about 2500 psi and temperatures of about 700F. During that process, most of the lower quality ring compounds, and essentially all of the heteroatoms like sulfur and nitrogen are removed. Most experts agree that group 3 oils are considerably closer to group 4 than to group 2 in quality, but most would also agree that they are not quite as good as group 4. But in terms of cost to manufacture, group 3 is closer to group 2 than to group 4. Knowing that, you can guess where this is headed.
Mobil 1 was originally group 4. Castrol started marketing a group 3 oil as being fully synthetic, on the basis that the severe hydrocracking of group 3 scrambled the hydrocarbons enough to call them synthetic in the sense that the resulting molecules are not naturally occurring. Mobil sued them, but lost. So now, in the USA, both group 3 and 4 oils can be advertised as being fully synthetic. As a result, even if the oil is advertised as fully synthetic, unless they specifically say it is group 4 (Mobil 1 does not), you do not know how much, if any group 4 oil it contains. Since they lost the lawsuit, Mobil refuses to answer the group 3 vs 4 question, so it is pretty clear that rather than label Mobil 1 as group 4 and continue making it as they originally did, they are using at least some group 3 base in Mobil 1. Just like any other oil that is labeled fully synthetic, but not labeled group 4, you cannot rule out the possibility that it is 100% group 3.
Before you start screaming that Mobil 1 is no longer any good, remember that it still meets 4718M spec. That spec doesn’t say anything about group 3, group 4, or synthetic, it simply sets standards for thermal stability and wear in engine testing. Those standards are so stringent that it is essentially impossible for a group 2 oil to meet. But now you ask the question, is a group 4 oil that meets 4718M better than a group 3 oil that meets 4718M? Beats the heck out of me. I’m sure both GM and Mobil have run such tests on original versus current Mobil 1, so they know that answer. But they aren’t talking. My guess would be that original Mobil 1 which was group 4 probably tests a smidgen better than current Mobil 1 which is a group 3-4 blend, but the difference is hardly enough to notice. They are both excellent oils, and had Mobil not gone to some group 3 in Mobil 1, you can be sure its price would have risen.
As far as the consumer, once the courts and lawyers put their ugly stamp on things by making the therm fully synthetic cover both group 3 and 4, it would be nice if the companies had responded by voluntarily labeling by group number like most do in Europe. Unfortunately, that hasn’t happened here yet, so as of now, unless the oil is one of the few that are labeled group 4, you have no way of knowing whether your synthetic is group 3 or 4. But you can hang your hat on the fact that both groups are excellent oils, so I really don’t think it’s worth too much worry.
Mobil 1 was originally group 4. Castrol started marketing a group 3 oil as being fully synthetic, on the basis that the severe hydrocracking of group 3 scrambled the hydrocarbons enough to call them synthetic in the sense that the resulting molecules are not naturally occurring. Mobil sued them, but lost. So now, in the USA, both group 3 and 4 oils can be advertised as being fully synthetic. As a result, even if the oil is advertised as fully synthetic, unless they specifically say it is group 4 (Mobil 1 does not), you do not know how much, if any group 4 oil it contains. Since they lost the lawsuit, Mobil refuses to answer the group 3 vs 4 question, so it is pretty clear that rather than label Mobil 1 as group 4 and continue making it as they originally did, they are using at least some group 3 base in Mobil 1. Just like any other oil that is labeled fully synthetic, but not labeled group 4, you cannot rule out the possibility that it is 100% group 3.
Before you start screaming that Mobil 1 is no longer any good, remember that it still meets 4718M spec. That spec doesn’t say anything about group 3, group 4, or synthetic, it simply sets standards for thermal stability and wear in engine testing. Those standards are so stringent that it is essentially impossible for a group 2 oil to meet. But now you ask the question, is a group 4 oil that meets 4718M better than a group 3 oil that meets 4718M? Beats the heck out of me. I’m sure both GM and Mobil have run such tests on original versus current Mobil 1, so they know that answer. But they aren’t talking. My guess would be that original Mobil 1 which was group 4 probably tests a smidgen better than current Mobil 1 which is a group 3-4 blend, but the difference is hardly enough to notice. They are both excellent oils, and had Mobil not gone to some group 3 in Mobil 1, you can be sure its price would have risen.
As far as the consumer, once the courts and lawyers put their ugly stamp on things by making the therm fully synthetic cover both group 3 and 4, it would be nice if the companies had responded by voluntarily labeling by group number like most do in Europe. Unfortunately, that hasn’t happened here yet, so as of now, unless the oil is one of the few that are labeled group 4, you have no way of knowing whether your synthetic is group 3 or 4. But you can hang your hat on the fact that both groups are excellent oils, so I really don’t think it’s worth too much worry.
02-12-2012, 04:34 PM
#30
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2000
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St. Jude Donor '13
Mobil-1 5W-30 (and maybe some of the other weights) in "regular" and Extended Performance blends, also meets the newer Dexos standard; and Mobil told me the oil did not have to be re-formulated to do that, they simply changed the labeling after the Dexos standard was established.
Based on recent reports from users, it seems like Corvette engines using Mobil-1 are becoming worn out after only 200,00-300,000 miles, so I'm getting worried.
Based on recent reports from users, it seems like Corvette engines using Mobil-1 are becoming worn out after only 200,00-300,000 miles, so I'm getting worried.
02-12-2012, 04:39 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
02-12-2012, 04:49 PM
#34
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
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All of the oils that are constantly discussed on the forum are varying blends of group 2, group 3, and group 4 base oils. Groups 2 and 4 are very easy to define. Group 2 is conventional “dino” oil, simply refined from crude oil. Group 4 is made up of various synthetic, manufactured polymers, mostly poly alpha olefins or PAO. Almost all experts would agree that group 2 are lowest quality of the base oil groups. Group 3 are the toughest to define, both in terms of origin and quality. They start out as group 2, but are then subjected to extremely severe processing called hydrocracking, where hydrogen is added over a catalyst at pressures of about 2500 psi and temperatures of about 700F. During that process, most of the lower quality ring compounds, and essentially all of the heteroatoms like sulfur and nitrogen are removed. Most experts agree that group 3 oils are considerably closer to group 4 than to group 2 in quality, but most would also agree that they are not quite as good as group 4. But in terms of cost to manufacture, group 3 is closer to group 2 than to group 4. Knowing that, you can guess where this is headed.
Mobil 1 was originally group 4. Castrol started marketing a group 3 oil as being fully synthetic, on the basis that the severe hydrocracking of group 3 scrambled the hydrocarbons enough to call them synthetic in the sense that the resulting molecules are not naturally occurring. Mobil sued them, but lost. So now, in the USA, both group 3 and 4 oils can be advertised as being fully synthetic. As a result, even if the oil is advertised as fully synthetic, unless they specifically say it is group 4 (Mobil 1 does not), you do not know how much, if any group 4 oil it contains. Since they lost the lawsuit, Mobil refuses to answer the group 3 vs 4 question, so it is pretty clear that rather than label Mobil 1 as group 4 and continue making it as they originally did, they are using at least some group 3 base in Mobil 1. Just like any other oil that is labeled fully synthetic, but not labeled group 4, you cannot rule out the possibility that it is 100% group 3.
Before you start screaming that Mobil 1 is no longer any good, remember that it still meets 4718M spec. That spec doesn’t say anything about group 3, group 4, or synthetic, it simply sets standards for thermal stability and wear in engine testing. Those standards are so stringent that it is essentially impossible for a group 2 oil to meet. But now you ask the question, is a group 4 oil that meets 4718M better than a group 3 oil that meets 4718M? Beats the heck out of me. I’m sure both GM and Mobil have run such tests on original versus current Mobil 1, so they know that answer. But they aren’t talking. My guess would be that original Mobil 1 which was group 4 probably tests a smidgen better than current Mobil 1 which is a group 3-4 blend, but the difference is hardly enough to notice. They are both excellent oils, and had Mobil not gone to some group 3 in Mobil 1, you can be sure its price would have risen.
As far as the consumer, once the courts and lawyers put their ugly stamp on things by making the therm fully synthetic cover both group 3 and 4, it would be nice if the companies had responded by voluntarily labeling by group number like most do in Europe. Unfortunately, that hasn’t happened here yet, so as of now, unless the oil is one of the few that are labeled group 4, you have no way of knowing whether your synthetic is group 3 or 4. But you can hang your hat on the fact that both groups are excellent oils, so I really don’t think it’s worth too much worry.
Mobil 1 was originally group 4. Castrol started marketing a group 3 oil as being fully synthetic, on the basis that the severe hydrocracking of group 3 scrambled the hydrocarbons enough to call them synthetic in the sense that the resulting molecules are not naturally occurring. Mobil sued them, but lost. So now, in the USA, both group 3 and 4 oils can be advertised as being fully synthetic. As a result, even if the oil is advertised as fully synthetic, unless they specifically say it is group 4 (Mobil 1 does not), you do not know how much, if any group 4 oil it contains. Since they lost the lawsuit, Mobil refuses to answer the group 3 vs 4 question, so it is pretty clear that rather than label Mobil 1 as group 4 and continue making it as they originally did, they are using at least some group 3 base in Mobil 1. Just like any other oil that is labeled fully synthetic, but not labeled group 4, you cannot rule out the possibility that it is 100% group 3.
Before you start screaming that Mobil 1 is no longer any good, remember that it still meets 4718M spec. That spec doesn’t say anything about group 3, group 4, or synthetic, it simply sets standards for thermal stability and wear in engine testing. Those standards are so stringent that it is essentially impossible for a group 2 oil to meet. But now you ask the question, is a group 4 oil that meets 4718M better than a group 3 oil that meets 4718M? Beats the heck out of me. I’m sure both GM and Mobil have run such tests on original versus current Mobil 1, so they know that answer. But they aren’t talking. My guess would be that original Mobil 1 which was group 4 probably tests a smidgen better than current Mobil 1 which is a group 3-4 blend, but the difference is hardly enough to notice. They are both excellent oils, and had Mobil not gone to some group 3 in Mobil 1, you can be sure its price would have risen.
As far as the consumer, once the courts and lawyers put their ugly stamp on things by making the therm fully synthetic cover both group 3 and 4, it would be nice if the companies had responded by voluntarily labeling by group number like most do in Europe. Unfortunately, that hasn’t happened here yet, so as of now, unless the oil is one of the few that are labeled group 4, you have no way of knowing whether your synthetic is group 3 or 4. But you can hang your hat on the fact that both groups are excellent oils, so I really don’t think it’s worth too much worry.
Good post. Some of my clients are in the industry and the above is truth.
Oh, and I also think Amsoil tastes like sh*t.
j/k
02-12-2012, 04:50 PM
#35
Try PAYING ATTENTION! Dexos is NOT an oil....it's an oil specification GM developed.
http://www.gmdexos.com/
http://www.gmdexos.com/
02-12-2012, 04:57 PM
#36
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
I've run Mobil 1 in my '96 (5.7 gas Vortec) for the last 16 years and 228,000 miles and beat the wee out of it, towing boats (700 miles in a weekend through the Rocky Mountians), hauling retarded loads, desert heat, mountian winter COLD... Starts the instant the starter hits the flywheel, and gets over 20 mpg on the highway. The body is rusting out, and the engine is still in perfect shape. How long does the engine need to last?? How has Mobil 1 failed me?
ALL API certified oils are MORE than good enough. I think we have a pot-stirring troll on our hands.
02-12-2012, 05:44 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
My engine has 100,000 miles on it and I removed the heads cause the valve seals split. The internals of the block are still new, being that the cylinder walls still have the original crosshatching in the bore and there IS NO lip at the top of the piston stroke to indicate wear. Pistons are still very tight as well as the compression readings.
Mobil One must have done something right to keep my LS1 14 year old engine in it's prime! It's pushing 500hp and runs like a new baby!
Mobil One...all the way....even today!
Mobil One must have done something right to keep my LS1 14 year old engine in it's prime! It's pushing 500hp and runs like a new baby!
Mobil One...all the way....even today!
Some Soobarooo guy said M1 is no good and to use Royal Purple...I'm going to have to change my oil ASAP...
