When replacing your tires
02-21-2012, 03:19 PM
#42
Team Owner
Remember, every time a tech touches your wheels, there is a chance he will damage them.
02-21-2012, 03:24 PM
#43
Team Owner
Thread Starter
One major difference is that when the original Delco battery dies, you can buy a battery at a million places in town and change it out in your driveway with a few simple hand tools. When the batteries in the tire sensors die, you HAVE to take the car to a tire dealer, they HAVE to remove the wheels from your car, the HAVE to use a tire machine to break the bead and forcible distort the tire to enable the tech to get his had in so he car remove the sensors and they HAVE to reinstall the wheels on your car. Three years after installing the new tires(same dealer) or going to a different dealer, I very seriously doubt if they will do it for free. especially if you bring your own new sensors(GM) that you purchased cheaper then the ones that the tire dealer sells.
Remember, every time a tech touches your wheels, there is a chance he will damage them.
Remember, every time a tech touches your wheels, there is a chance he will damage them.
I would think that the GM sensors cost more than whatever brand the tire shop gets.
Then again what happens if sensors go out and you don't replace them immediately? You just revert back to old school with a tire guage?
02-21-2012, 06:34 PM
#44
Safety Car
If the tech damages the TPS then they should replace it for free.
I would think that the GM sensors cost more than whatever brand the tire shop gets.
Then again what happens if sensors go out and you don't replace them immediately? You just revert back to old school with a tire guage?
I would think that the GM sensors cost more than whatever brand the tire shop gets.
Then again what happens if sensors go out and you don't replace them immediately? You just revert back to old school with a tire guage?
02-21-2012, 07:36 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
Road Hazard warranties typically cover manufacturer defects. A defect is defined as an imperfection that causes inadequacy or failure. Companies will usually only fix a defect if they find it is caused by a material or quality problem caused by the manufacturer.
Therefore, when you cut your tire down on a nail from that construction zone you travel through each day the manufacturer's warranty is not going to cover that. The road hazard warranty would cover that. TPS sensor rebuilds are usually the 0 ring and nut, worth getting it done to make sure you do not have a slow leak, the old days the replaced the valve stem with new tires. I don't like the chain tire houses as they charge an exorbanant amount for the road hazard, prefer the wholesale clubs at around $14 per tire.
Therefore, when you cut your tire down on a nail from that construction zone you travel through each day the manufacturer's warranty is not going to cover that. The road hazard warranty would cover that. TPS sensor rebuilds are usually the 0 ring and nut, worth getting it done to make sure you do not have a slow leak, the old days the replaced the valve stem with new tires. I don't like the chain tire houses as they charge an exorbanant amount for the road hazard, prefer the wholesale clubs at around $14 per tire.
02-22-2012, 12:42 AM
#46
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Road Hazard warranties typically cover manufacturer defects. A defect is defined as an imperfection that causes inadequacy or failure. Companies will usually only fix a defect if they find it is caused by a material or quality problem caused by the manufacturer.
Therefore, when you cut your tire down on a nail from that construction zone you travel through each day the manufacturer's warranty is not going to cover that. The road hazard warranty would cover that. TPS sensor rebuilds are usually the 0 ring and nut, worth getting it done to make sure you do not have a slow leak, the old days the replaced the valve stem with new tires. I don't like the chain tire houses as they charge an exorbanant amount for the road hazard, prefer the wholesale clubs at around $14 per tire.
Therefore, when you cut your tire down on a nail from that construction zone you travel through each day the manufacturer's warranty is not going to cover that. The road hazard warranty would cover that. TPS sensor rebuilds are usually the 0 ring and nut, worth getting it done to make sure you do not have a slow leak, the old days the replaced the valve stem with new tires. I don't like the chain tire houses as they charge an exorbanant amount for the road hazard, prefer the wholesale clubs at around $14 per tire.
02-22-2012, 12:44 AM
#47
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I'm sure the nannies will take over if the BCM thinks there is a flat tire. You would have to either replace the sensors in the tires, or put a sensor or 2/3/4 inside a pressurized piece of PVC pipe left in the car someplace. This will fool the BCM. Then I suppose when you replace the tires the next time, you could install the sensors. Seems like a pain if you are going to keep the car for several more years.
02-22-2012, 10:08 AM
#48
Safety Car
Not so.
A tire shop won't even remove the tire when replacing the sensor and it's very cheap.
Had a new sensor replaced on my wifes XLR-V for just under 60 bucks (including the sensor). I think it was $55...something like that at Discount Tire.
I wouldn't replace the TPMS until it needs replacing.
A tire shop won't even remove the tire when replacing the sensor and it's very cheap.
Had a new sensor replaced on my wifes XLR-V for just under 60 bucks (including the sensor). I think it was $55...something like that at Discount Tire.
I wouldn't replace the TPMS until it needs replacing.
02-22-2012, 11:56 AM
#49
Team Owner
If the tech damages the TPS then they should replace it for free.
I would think that the GM sensors cost more than whatever brand the tire shop gets.
Then again what happens if sensors go out and you don't replace them immediately? You just revert back to old school with a tire guage?
I would think that the GM sensors cost more than whatever brand the tire shop gets.
Then again what happens if sensors go out and you don't replace them immediately? You just revert back to old school with a tire guage?
When I speak of damaging the wheels, I'm speaking about the percentages of that happening going up each time the tech touches your car. They will most likely fix a wheel or TPS they damage, but it's still better if they didn't damage them in the first place.
I know that the sensors from GM will perform as designed with my C6. What assurances do you have that some aftermarket sensor will do that.
02-22-2012, 12:07 PM
#50
Team Owner
My point is that GM says the batteries will last from 7 to 10 years. You now have 7 years on your batteries. All I'm saying is that if you plan on driving another 7 years, the chances are that the batteries will shortly fail and you will end up spending the money for new TPS units. Plus, in all likelihood, you will pay the dealer to remove the tires from your car, put them on the tire machine, breakdown the tire, replace the TPS and then put the tire back on the car. Times 4. Do you beleive the dealer will spend that time, paying his tech, while not being able to work on another client's car, etc for free?
Why don't you just ask your dealer if he will install new tire sensors for free if you show up a year or two from now.
02-22-2012, 12:13 PM
#51
Team Owner
There seems to be some confusion about the TPMS in this thread.
The rebuild kit as noted, is nothing but an oring and a valve stem schrader valve. It does nothing for the operation of the sensor or the life of the battery. It does not "rebuild" the sensor. It will rejuvenate the seal of the sensor stem where it meets the wheel and prevent leaks from old o-rings which have likely taken a seat and deformed in the position they have been in since being originally installed.
You really should consider getting new TPMS when you have your tires replaced. Since they are in the wheel anyway, it will save you the additional labor of having to pull the wheels and remove the tires a second time after you have the new tires put on.
As noted, the sensor batteries have an expected life of 7 to 10 years some last longer, some fail sooner.
The rebuild kit as noted, is nothing but an oring and a valve stem schrader valve. It does nothing for the operation of the sensor or the life of the battery. It does not "rebuild" the sensor. It will rejuvenate the seal of the sensor stem where it meets the wheel and prevent leaks from old o-rings which have likely taken a seat and deformed in the position they have been in since being originally installed.
You really should consider getting new TPMS when you have your tires replaced. Since they are in the wheel anyway, it will save you the additional labor of having to pull the wheels and remove the tires a second time after you have the new tires put on.
As noted, the sensor batteries have an expected life of 7 to 10 years some last longer, some fail sooner.
02-22-2012, 03:48 PM
#52
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The battery life is primarily related to the time it's being used, just like other battery powered devices. This time of use on a TPS is controlled by the car, not the sensor itself. Loss of power due to shelf life is negligible, because the sensor isn't activated initially until the centrifugal force of an approximate 15 MPH rotation happens. (usually during balancing)
The car sends a request to the TPS once a minute from the time of ignition until 25 minutes after the ignition is turned off. Then it goes into sleep mode.
Obviously, short trips and low speeds mean more battery use per mile than longer and higher speed highway use. However, more miles still add up to shorter battery life.
The 7-10 year figure works for the average 12K/yr car and fairly well for those cars in that range. Corvette owners, as a general rule, drive far less than average, which means those individuals may not fit the 7-10 year timeframe.
The car sends a request to the TPS once a minute from the time of ignition until 25 minutes after the ignition is turned off. Then it goes into sleep mode.
Obviously, short trips and low speeds mean more battery use per mile than longer and higher speed highway use. However, more miles still add up to shorter battery life.
The 7-10 year figure works for the average 12K/yr car and fairly well for those cars in that range. Corvette owners, as a general rule, drive far less than average, which means those individuals may not fit the 7-10 year timeframe.
02-22-2012, 04:41 PM
#53
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Since the other part of this thread deals with tire road hazard warranties, I'll give my opinion.
You have little or no control of the timing or location of an event that renders a tire useless and the car it's on disabled. That means the likelyhood of getting a replacement without significant additional cost is slim unless you never drive very far from the tire dealer.
Picture yourself driving across MT headed to ND. Discount Tire has no dealers in either state. It's 50 miles to the closest tire dealer of any brand. So what are the chances that store would have anything on the shelf in the size you need? AAA may get you towed to the next town or limp in on runflats, but the hotel bill while you wait for the right tire to be shipped will exceed the non-covered shipping cost. When the tire arrives, some other business will still charge to mount and balance it. Then you'll have to drag the junk tire through several more states to return it before the warranty will refund the price of the tire.
The price of a road hazard warranty is not much different than the cost of repairing a flat, but there are non-covered expenses that can easily exceed the price and time needed to get a warrantied replacement.
I choose to keep the money in my pocket and take the risk. I tend to watch the DIC for pressure losses to fix issues early if they happen at all. As always YMMV.
JMHO
You have little or no control of the timing or location of an event that renders a tire useless and the car it's on disabled. That means the likelyhood of getting a replacement without significant additional cost is slim unless you never drive very far from the tire dealer.
Picture yourself driving across MT headed to ND. Discount Tire has no dealers in either state. It's 50 miles to the closest tire dealer of any brand. So what are the chances that store would have anything on the shelf in the size you need? AAA may get you towed to the next town or limp in on runflats, but the hotel bill while you wait for the right tire to be shipped will exceed the non-covered shipping cost. When the tire arrives, some other business will still charge to mount and balance it. Then you'll have to drag the junk tire through several more states to return it before the warranty will refund the price of the tire.
The price of a road hazard warranty is not much different than the cost of repairing a flat, but there are non-covered expenses that can easily exceed the price and time needed to get a warrantied replacement.
I choose to keep the money in my pocket and take the risk. I tend to watch the DIC for pressure losses to fix issues early if they happen at all. As always YMMV.
JMHO
02-22-2012, 04:59 PM
#54
Safety Car
Keep in mind that Discount Tire prorates the thread depth and calculates how much you will have to 'additionally pay' to have them replace your tires for 'free'. You may want to ask them about that. So yeah, if it blows out with full tread then its worth it. But if it blows out with 2-3/32nds left you may as well not even bought it in the first place. I will say DC has patched tires for free and I didnt even buy the tire from them. They are an excellent tire company. YMMV
02-22-2012, 05:03 PM
#55
Team Owner
Thread Starter
The battery life is primarily related to the time it's being used, just like other battery powered devices. This time of use on a TPS is controlled by the car, not the sensor itself. Loss of power due to shelf life is negligible, because the sensor isn't activated initially until the centrifugal force of an approximate 15 MPH rotation happens. (usually during balancing)
The car sends a request to the TPS once a minute from the time of ignition until 25 minutes after the ignition is turned off. Then it goes into sleep mode.
Obviously, short trips and low speeds mean more battery use per mile than longer and higher speed highway use. However, more miles still add up to shorter battery life.
The 7-10 year figure works for the average 12K/yr car and fairly well for those cars in that range. Corvette owners, as a general rule, drive far less than average, which means those individuals may not fit the 7-10 year timeframe.
The car sends a request to the TPS once a minute from the time of ignition until 25 minutes after the ignition is turned off. Then it goes into sleep mode.
Obviously, short trips and low speeds mean more battery use per mile than longer and higher speed highway use. However, more miles still add up to shorter battery life.
The 7-10 year figure works for the average 12K/yr car and fairly well for those cars in that range. Corvette owners, as a general rule, drive far less than average, which means those individuals may not fit the 7-10 year timeframe.
Last edited by LS WON; 02-22-2012 at 05:15 PM.
02-22-2012, 05:08 PM
#56
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Keep in mind that Discount Tire prorates the thread depth and calculates how much you will have to 'additionally pay' to have them replace your tires for 'free'. You may want to ask them about that. So yeah, if it blows out with full tread then its worth it. But if it blows out with 2-3/32nds left you may as well not even bought it in the first place. I will say DC has patched tires for free and I didnt even buy the tire from them. They are an excellent tire company. YMMV
Strange though
They told me that even if you drive on a worn out tire and it goes they will replace it for free since it cannot be replaced.Initially they will try to patch or repair tire if it is repairable before replacing it with a new one at least that's what he told me.
They did refuse to patch a tire for me before because you could see the steel belts showing through a small portion of tire because of liability
I plug it myself and used it anyway with no problems.
02-22-2012, 05:13 PM
#57
Yes, if the tech knows what he's doing, there is little chance of damaging the TPS while installing new tires.
My point is that GM says the batteries will last from 7 to 10 years. You now have 7 years on your batteries. All I'm saying is that if you plan on driving another 7 years, the chances are that the batteries will shortly fail and you will end up spending the money for new TPS units. Plus, in all likelihood, you will pay the dealer to remove the tires from your car, put them on the tire machine, breakdown the tire, replace the TPS and then put the tire back on the car. Times 4. Do you beleive the dealer will spend that time, paying his tech, while not being able to work on another client's car, etc for free?
Why don't you just ask your dealer if he will install new tire sensors for free if you show up a year or two from now.
My point is that GM says the batteries will last from 7 to 10 years. You now have 7 years on your batteries. All I'm saying is that if you plan on driving another 7 years, the chances are that the batteries will shortly fail and you will end up spending the money for new TPS units. Plus, in all likelihood, you will pay the dealer to remove the tires from your car, put them on the tire machine, breakdown the tire, replace the TPS and then put the tire back on the car. Times 4. Do you beleive the dealer will spend that time, paying his tech, while not being able to work on another client's car, etc for free?
Why don't you just ask your dealer if he will install new tire sensors for free if you show up a year or two from now.
02-22-2012, 05:13 PM
#58
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Since the other part of this thread deals with tire road hazard warranties, I'll give my opinion.
You have little or no control of the timing or location of an event that renders a tire useless and the car it's on disabled. That means the likelyhood of getting a replacement without significant additional cost is slim unless you never drive very far from the tire dealer.
Picture yourself driving across MT headed to ND. Discount Tire has no dealers in either state. It's 50 miles to the closest tire dealer of any brand. So what are the chances that store would have anything on the shelf in the size you need? AAA may get you towed to the next town or limp in on runflats, but the hotel bill while you wait for the right tire to be shipped will exceed the non-covered shipping cost. When the tire arrives, some other business will still charge to mount and balance it. Then you'll have to drag the junk tire through several more states to return it before the warranty will refund the price of the tire.
The price of a road hazard warranty is not much different than the cost of repairing a flat, but there are non-covered expenses that can easily exceed the price and time needed to get a warrantied replacement.
I choose to keep the money in my pocket and take the risk. I tend to watch the DIC for pressure losses to fix issues early if they happen at all. As always YMMV.
JMHO
You have little or no control of the timing or location of an event that renders a tire useless and the car it's on disabled. That means the likelyhood of getting a replacement without significant additional cost is slim unless you never drive very far from the tire dealer.
Picture yourself driving across MT headed to ND. Discount Tire has no dealers in either state. It's 50 miles to the closest tire dealer of any brand. So what are the chances that store would have anything on the shelf in the size you need? AAA may get you towed to the next town or limp in on runflats, but the hotel bill while you wait for the right tire to be shipped will exceed the non-covered shipping cost. When the tire arrives, some other business will still charge to mount and balance it. Then you'll have to drag the junk tire through several more states to return it before the warranty will refund the price of the tire.
The price of a road hazard warranty is not much different than the cost of repairing a flat, but there are non-covered expenses that can easily exceed the price and time needed to get a warrantied replacement.
I choose to keep the money in my pocket and take the risk. I tend to watch the DIC for pressure losses to fix issues early if they happen at all. As always YMMV.
JMHO
Very interesting point luckily we do not travel or do road trips in desolute areas so there is usually a Discount Tire nearby. True most of the time any of these kinds of tires must be mail ordered. In the past before TPM's became federal law I have always been lucky to catch any possilbe problem with tire guage and checking tires as a preventative maintenance.-old school
02-23-2012, 01:06 AM
#59
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With 43K on your '05 that's a 60 mile average each time you drive twice each week. Do you just drive until you return home or do you stop a different places during the drive, such as movies, restaurants, car shows? Every time you stop it's active for the next 25 minutes.
The 5 minute drive 2 miles down the road to the car show where you stop for 3 hours and then drive home, just used up 60 minutes of battery in 4 miles. The 17 mile drive to Aunt Jane's at 60 mph average and then back home without stopping, because she wasn't there, used up 59 minutes of battery in 34 miles.
Even if you get 12 years before the batteries die, you still won't use up the next set of tires for 2 more years. Considering your driving habits, you should plan on new sensors at each tire change.
02-23-2012, 10:41 AM
#60
Team Owner
Not just in motion, but the full time from the first motion until 25 minutes after you turn it off.
With 43K on your '05 that's a 60 mile average each time you drive twice each week. Do you just drive until you return home or do you stop a different places during the drive, such as movies, restaurants, car shows? Every time you stop it's active for the next 25 minutes.
The 5 minute drive 2 miles down the road to the car show where you stop for 3 hours and then drive home, just used up 60 minutes of battery in 4 miles. The 17 mile drive to Aunt Jane's at 60 mph average and then back home without stopping, because she wasn't there, used up 59 minutes of battery in 34 miles.
Even if you get 12 years before the batteries die, you still won't use up the next set of tires for 2 more years. Considering your driving habits, you should plan on new sensors at each tire change.
With 43K on your '05 that's a 60 mile average each time you drive twice each week. Do you just drive until you return home or do you stop a different places during the drive, such as movies, restaurants, car shows? Every time you stop it's active for the next 25 minutes.
The 5 minute drive 2 miles down the road to the car show where you stop for 3 hours and then drive home, just used up 60 minutes of battery in 4 miles. The 17 mile drive to Aunt Jane's at 60 mph average and then back home without stopping, because she wasn't there, used up 59 minutes of battery in 34 miles.
Even if you get 12 years before the batteries die, you still won't use up the next set of tires for 2 more years. Considering your driving habits, you should plan on new sensors at each tire change.
Excerpt from the service manual:
"The tire pressure monitor (TPM) system allows the driver to display all 4 tire pressures on the driver information center (DIC) while the vehicle is being driven. The system uses the remote control door lock receiver (RCDLR), body control module (BCM), powertrain control module (PCM), 4 radio frequency transmitting pressure sensors inside each wheel/tire assembly, and a class 2 serial data circuit to perform the system functions. When the vehicle is stationary for more than 20 minutes, the sensors go into power down mode. In this mode, the sensors transmit tire pressure data once every 60 minutes. This minimizes sensor battery consumption. These batteries are not serviceable and require sensor replacement if low. As vehicle speed increases to 32 km/h (20 mph), the sensor's internal roll switches turn the sensors ON and they will each begin to transmit a unique identification code and a radio frequency signal. The RCDLR receives and translates this data into tire location and tire pressure."
