olefam

Not sure if anyone else has seen this, but Pennzoil is now using natural gas as their base stock in a new motor oil that I believe is called Pennzoil Ultra. As I recall the oil bottle mentions a "GTL" feature (some kind of processing accronym) and the new oil is almost crystal clear compared to other full synthetics. It's expensive at about $9.25 per quart when you can find it. But because of its initial purity it allows for some long drain intervals. This new oil apparantly compares very favorably with PAO-based synthtics such as Redline products. Also mentioned was that Mobil1 0w-40 may be in the same league as this new Pennzoil product, although the Mobil1 is formulated with a more conventional base stock(s).
It'll be interesting to see who starts usiong this new oil and what the results will be on the race track.
Glen

cclive

Motor oil choice in racing is much more about sponsorship dollars than it is about performance. A racing engine only goes a short distance before it is torn down and rebuilt. The extreme version of this is a drag racing engine that only goes 1/4 of a mile between overhauls. Oil for consumers is all about making a car engine go for 200,000 miles or more. This goal has already been met. Almost all cars are scrapped before the engine wears out these days. Engine wear is far from the most important item in the eventual demise of a car.
I am not saying that motor oil is not improving, but the difference between an engine lasting 250,000 miles and lasting 500,000 miles is not very important because the car was sent to the junkyard at 150,000 miles.

billyboy47

i use the ultra in my toyota and honda awd vehicles. i heard and saw reports that its better than mobil1. as far as my vette, i use the amsoil signature series synthetic motor oil with a k&n oil filter. everyone has their own choice as to what they use, thats why i don't get involved in the oil war posts. my car, my choice. same thing with gasoline. i use shell, where someone will come on the forum and say its the worst gas too use because they claim sonoco is a better grade of gas. to each his own.

LDB

GTL refers to Gas to Liquids, an emerging technology to convert natural gas into liquid fuels and lubes. I don‘t want to get into a lengthy discussion today, but I’ll try to do a short version. Several threads have talked about oil groups, with most synthetics being 3 or 4 (5 is highly specialized and I’ll ignore it for this post). The early synthetics like original Mobil 1 were group 4, which are poly alpha olefins. Group 3 oils start out as conventional oil, but go through a process called hydrocracking, which produces oils rich in isoparaffins, which are the best of the conventional lube components. GTL results in liquids that are not just enriched in isoparaffins, they are pure isoparaffins. So while they aren’t officially called this, I think it’s a fair approximation to view them unofficially as being group 3+. Most would agree that before adding the additives, group 4 base stocks are slightly better lubes than group 3. The GTL liquids were just phasing in as I retired, so I don’t have full knowledge in this area. But I suspect that GTL, which I am unofficially calling group 3+, are essentially equal in quality to group 4. To some extent, that doesn’t matter, because additives level the playing field such that practical difference between synthetics made from group 3 and 4 are small.

The courts have ruled that group 3 and 4 oils can both be called full synthetics, and the manufacturers do not post whether their full synthetics are 3, 4, or a blend. But since 3 is cheaper to make than 4, you can take a fearless guess that none are pure 4 any more, now that 3 can be called full synthetic too. I looked at the Pennzoil site, and like others, it does not say whether their full synthetics are 3 or 4, nor does it mention GTL, which I would call 3+. But Pennzoil is owned by Shell, and Shell is a leader in GTL, so it is certainly possible that it does contain at least some GTL base. I guess my bottom line is that the GTL is not a revolutionary new thing from the consumer’s standpoint. It’s pricing and characteristics should be similar to what’s already out there.

timd38

Red Line is all ester based. Unlike lubes made by big oil companies, it contains high levels zink and phosphate and 100% synthetic.

Penzoil and Mobil are like Miller and Bud. Red Line is more like Fat Tire, higher quality, little higher price.

Cybernetic Medic

Where does Shock Top Raspberry Wheat fit in... I like the beer and may switch to an equivalent oil.

LDB

Since the courts ruled that groups 3, 4, and 5 could all be called “full synthetic”, nobody (and that includes the high priced guys like Redline and Amsoil) lists relative fraction of groups 3, 4, and 5 base oils any more. It’s true that Redline advertises themselves as ester based, just like Amsoil careful words their ads to imply high poly alpha olefin content. But you’ll notice they don’t give any specifics. And even if it was known with certainty that those oils did have significantly higher group 4 or 5 content than other synthetics, that still wouldn’t say much about performace once fully compounded with all basestocks and additives. Once you are into full synthetics, and especially after you include the additive packages, differences among the various base oil groups are small. That’s not to say Redline or Amsoil are bad oils. Indeed, I haven’t seen any recent engine test data on them. Before I retired (3 years ago) when I did see such data, they were competitive with the major brands, but not leaders. What it suggests to me is that the big boys have added funding to do more of the expensive engine testing needed to fine tune blends, and that extra funding counterbalances whatever advantage there may be from the possibility that brands like Amsoil and Redline may use slightly less group 3 basestock than the big guys.

Sayfoo

Exactly!!
I read/post in the c3 and c6 section and I find that some of the c6 guys get too involved in trying to buy upgraded parts/fluids, when they are not a major improvement. Go out and actually drive and enjoy your cars for what they are.

timd38

You would be surprised at how many race cars have brand "A" on the car and another brand in the crankcase...

cclive

100%

erick_e

I read about these new oils a few weeks ago. There was a link to the .pdf files on BITOG, but the link no longer works.

They have posted a sticky thread for technical questions that can be asked to the Pennzoil team.