shift to reverse warning
12-01-2014, 10:04 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
shift to reverse warning
Hi fellas- after taking my 05 in for tires and having them run the battery dead (which they replaced) because they didn't put it in reverse when they shut it off, even though the car chimes and displays a message saying shift to reverse, I thought that I should get some sort of warning sticker or small sign I could put by the shifter or hang on it so this never happens again. Any thing out there like that or do you guys know of something I can use? Shouldn't have to do this but if it happens at the dealer it could happen again. Just being pro active about it. Anyway, I would appreciate your ideas on this. Thx as always, Donwil 
12-01-2014, 10:09 PM
#2
Team Owner
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 46,103
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
In all the years, I haven't heard/seen one. I do think that some may have hand-printed up a card in/with red marker on cardboard tho. Doesn't have to be big, just so that it either fits on dash, hangs from mirror, or sits on console ahead of shifter.
12-02-2014, 03:13 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
I got rid of that shift to reverse on my 05. If you need guidance on how to do it I can give you the number to my mechanic and he can guide you to the parts to get.
Last edited by vettekid05; 12-16-2014 at 03:37 AM.
12-02-2014, 04:20 AM
#4
Drifting
Since the days of owning my C3's (3 of them) when you couldn't remove the key unless the manual shifter was in reverse, I've always put the transmission there before exiting the car. By doing this, you don't have to rely on the emergency brake to keep the car from rolling on an uneven surface. It's a good habit to get into. 
12-02-2014, 06:35 AM
#5
Le Mans Master
I would use a similar solution to what I used to use when I would leave the top loose - a sheet of paper on the dash. It doesn't have to be anything permanent. You aren't going to drive long distances with it on display. You could tape a 4x6 card to the steering wheel with instructions.
12-02-2014, 08:17 AM
#7
Safety Car
I used my Word Program to type out the warning in BIG LETTERS. Leave the sheet of paper on the console. Print out new sheet each time I need it. I also take it out of Auto Lock so they don't lock the fob inside.
12-02-2014, 09:34 AM
#8
Team Owner
I bought my '05 vert with a manual trans in September. The detailers were to do a complete detail before I picked it up.
After waiting five days for them to get it done their excuse was that the battery kept running down and they could not get the car started. It turned out that they would charge the battery during the day and start it just before closing for the day but after it sat overnight it would not start. They finally replaced the battery and got it in the shop to be detailed. Yep, they admitted that they did not put it in reverse when they shut it off.
After waiting five days for them to get it done their excuse was that the battery kept running down and they could not get the car started. It turned out that they would charge the battery during the day and start it just before closing for the day but after it sat overnight it would not start. They finally replaced the battery and got it in the shop to be detailed. Yep, they admitted that they did not put it in reverse when they shut it off.
12-02-2014, 11:03 AM
#9
GM TSB # PIC4188E to have the RCDLR reprogrammed will solve that problem.
As for free or not, double check the GM recall site with your vin number to see what else needs to be corrected that you don't know about. If the list is long enough, they may just throw in the TSB recall for free.
https://recalls.gm.com/#/
P.S. New gas cap if your is about toast and does not want to lock, #EOI7238, so add that to list of what you find from the above site.
As for free or not, double check the GM recall site with your vin number to see what else needs to be corrected that you don't know about. If the list is long enough, they may just throw in the TSB recall for free.
https://recalls.gm.com/#/
P.S. New gas cap if your is about toast and does not want to lock, #EOI7238, so add that to list of what you find from the above site.
12-02-2014, 05:58 PM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
12-02-2014, 06:07 PM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
I bought my '05 vert with a manual trans in September. The detailers were to do a complete detail before I picked it up.
After waiting five days for them to get it done their excuse was that the battery kept running down and they could not get the car started. It turned out that they would charge the battery during the day and start it just before closing for the day but after it sat overnight it would not start. They finally replaced the battery and got it in the shop to be detailed. Yep, they admitted that they did not put it in reverse when they shut it off.
After waiting five days for them to get it done their excuse was that the battery kept running down and they could not get the car started. It turned out that they would charge the battery during the day and start it just before closing for the day but after it sat overnight it would not start. They finally replaced the battery and got it in the shop to be detailed. Yep, they admitted that they did not put it in reverse when they shut it off.
12-02-2014, 06:52 PM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
GM TSB # PIC4188E to have the RCDLR reprogrammed will solve that problem.
As for free or not, double check the GM recall site with your vin number to see what else needs to be corrected that you don't know about. If the list is long enough, they may just throw in the TSB recall for free.
https://recalls.gm.com/#/
P.S. New gas cap if your is about toast and does not want to lock, #EOI7238, so add that to list of what you find from the above site.
As for free or not, double check the GM recall site with your vin number to see what else needs to be corrected that you don't know about. If the list is long enough, they may just throw in the TSB recall for free.
https://recalls.gm.com/#/
P.S. New gas cap if your is about toast and does not want to lock, #EOI7238, so add that to list of what you find from the above site.
12-02-2014, 06:57 PM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
12-03-2014, 07:00 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
Dano's TSB that "will solve that problem" doesn't apply to you because, if you read it, the first thing it says is to check to see if the car was left in reverse. If it is then the TSB doesn't apply. You said it was not left in reverse. Therefor that TSB check list is not applicable to your issue. If you go into a dealer with that number and say that is the fix the dealer is going to laugh at you.
#PIC4188E: Battery Drain Check List For Corvettes - keywords adaptor column draw harness interface IPOD lamp light lights lock manual parasitic program shift shifter steering transmission wheel - (Nov 13, 2007)
Battery Drain Check List for Corvettes
Models: 2005-2008 Chevrolet Corvette
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This PI was superseded to update 2008 model year vehicles. Please discard PIC4188D.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:
A customer may complain of an intermittent battery drain.
Recommendation/Instructions:
If a complaint of a battery drain arrives it is important to do a little product investigation prior to applying battery power or jump starting the vehicle. Please read each step carefully. Only perform the steps that have the model year of the vehicle in question.
Use the emergency entry procedure to enter the car, unlock the trunk or hatch and release the driver's door.
2005 manual transmission only. Attempt to turn the steering wheel. If the steering wheel is locked it is a good indication the transmission was placed reverse before it was shut down. The Electric column lock waits to see if the shifter was placed in reverse prior to issuing the command to lock the column. If the column is locked the shifter had to be where it was supposed to be. If the column is unlocked there is a good chance the shifter was not in the proper location when the car was shut down.
2005 manual transmission only. Check the location of the shifter. The shifter should be placed into reverse prior to turning the vehicle off. Again if the shifter is not in the proper location the electrical system will not power down.
2005-2008. Open the hood and apply battery power, either to jump or charge the battery. DO NOT START THE ENGINE. Enter the car, close the door and wait for 90 seconds. Take note of what is on. Address any item that is on that should not be.
2005-2008. Are the headlamp or day time running lamps lit? With the key off there should not be any lamps lit. Perhaps the headlamp switch has been inadvertently turned on. Remember the only time the headlamps are turned off are in the off position or automatic. If the customer has turned the stalk to parking lamps or headlamps the headlamps will be lit when the ignition is off. There should be a chime to remind the driver the lamps are lit but often times the chime is ignored. These are on the 20 minute battery saver circuits but it does not take many short start and stop trips to draw the battery down to a voltage that will not allow the car to start
2005-2008. Is the radio still on? There have been reported cases where the radio stays powered up after the vehicle is shut down. This has been an intermittent complaint and it only occurs on cars equipped with the Bose systems which is the multi-disc player and the Nav radio. Only service the radio if this concern can be identified.
2005-2008. Does the customer own an I-Pod? It is possible an I-Pod interface has been installed. This devise connects directly to the radio at the XM connection. It will keep the audio powered after shutdown. Even if the IPOD devise has been unplugged, this device must be removed from the vehicle completely. The devise triggers the Bus to maintain power even when the devise is not powered.
2005-2008. Close both doors. After 2 minutes are there any interior lamps on? Visually check the map lamps on the rear view mirror and vanity lamps. Often these lamps can be bumped and if the car is only driven during the day it will not be noticed. Under dash lamps are controlled by the courtesy lamp switch. Many customers do not realize that the switch has been bumped and they have been turned on. The old switch (C5 cars) used to push in and you could tell it was off. The new switch (C6 cars) does not press in. It can be bumped and turned on and go unnoticed. There should not be any lamps on in the interior of the car after 3 minutes if the ignition has not been turned on, including the cluster. Note anything that is on.
2005-2008. Check for electrical accessories plugged into the cigarette lighter and the accessory plug in the console. Even though there may not be anything plugged into the accessory cord it can be a source of battery draw.
2005-2008. Use the Tech2 and inspect the key cylinder operation for the deck lid or hatch depending on body style. Be sure this cylinder changes status on the Tech2 as the cylinder is rotated. An "Active" input to the BCM may keep the BCM awake and induce a battery drain condition. The Tech2 path is... Model Year > Passenger Car > Chevrolet > Y Car > Body and Accessories > Body Rear End > Data Display > Body Control Module > Chassis Data > Keyless/Remote Start Data > locate the parameter labeled "Trunk Key Cylinder Switch". This item should change from Active to Inactive and the cylinder is rotated.
2005-2008. Remove the CTSY/LAMP fuse from the electrical center. Perform a 20 minute parasitic draw test. Was the draw eliminated with the CTSY/LAMP lamp fuse removed? If so, remove 1732 circuits from the BCM, Connector C4 terminals D5 and E5 and Connector C3 terminal A3. Test for continuity to ground on each terminal. There should be no ground continuity with all devices turned off, trunk/hatch closed and door latches closed. Diagnose and repair circuit conditions on any 1732 branch with unwanted grounding path. Normal system operation will have a signal voltage on the 1732 circuit while powered down and all three 1732 circuits installed at the BCM in their proper connectors.
Note: There have been reports of buttons on the Universal Garage Door Opener sticking. This devise could lead to an intermittent battery drain. Unplug the driver's side visor/sunshade and evaluate. When a button sticks, the vehicles battery draw is typically around 250mA. This device is powered by the 1732 courtesy circuit listed above.
2005-2006. Finally if all the above information has been inspected and Strategy Based Diagnostics has been performed with no resolution, reprogram the PCM/ECM with the latest calibration through TIS-2WEB. Once the calibration has been down loaded to the PCM/ECM, release the vehicle for customer to evaluate. Note: 2007-2008 model year vehicles were given this updated calibration prior to shipping from Bowling Green Assembly.
2005 Model vehicles select the calibration under the tab for "Main Operating System" labeled...
"New software to address potential battery run-down situation"
2006 Model vehicles select the calibration under the tab for "Main Operating System" labeled...
"New software contains diagnostics enhancement for DTC P0128 and DTC P0507. Also addresses battery drain."
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
Battery Drain Check List for Corvettes
Models: 2005-2008 Chevrolet Corvette
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This PI was superseded to update 2008 model year vehicles. Please discard PIC4188D.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:
A customer may complain of an intermittent battery drain.
Recommendation/Instructions:
If a complaint of a battery drain arrives it is important to do a little product investigation prior to applying battery power or jump starting the vehicle. Please read each step carefully. Only perform the steps that have the model year of the vehicle in question.
Use the emergency entry procedure to enter the car, unlock the trunk or hatch and release the driver's door.
2005 manual transmission only. Attempt to turn the steering wheel. If the steering wheel is locked it is a good indication the transmission was placed reverse before it was shut down. The Electric column lock waits to see if the shifter was placed in reverse prior to issuing the command to lock the column. If the column is locked the shifter had to be where it was supposed to be. If the column is unlocked there is a good chance the shifter was not in the proper location when the car was shut down.
2005 manual transmission only. Check the location of the shifter. The shifter should be placed into reverse prior to turning the vehicle off. Again if the shifter is not in the proper location the electrical system will not power down.
2005-2008. Open the hood and apply battery power, either to jump or charge the battery. DO NOT START THE ENGINE. Enter the car, close the door and wait for 90 seconds. Take note of what is on. Address any item that is on that should not be.
2005-2008. Are the headlamp or day time running lamps lit? With the key off there should not be any lamps lit. Perhaps the headlamp switch has been inadvertently turned on. Remember the only time the headlamps are turned off are in the off position or automatic. If the customer has turned the stalk to parking lamps or headlamps the headlamps will be lit when the ignition is off. There should be a chime to remind the driver the lamps are lit but often times the chime is ignored. These are on the 20 minute battery saver circuits but it does not take many short start and stop trips to draw the battery down to a voltage that will not allow the car to start
2005-2008. Is the radio still on? There have been reported cases where the radio stays powered up after the vehicle is shut down. This has been an intermittent complaint and it only occurs on cars equipped with the Bose systems which is the multi-disc player and the Nav radio. Only service the radio if this concern can be identified.
2005-2008. Does the customer own an I-Pod? It is possible an I-Pod interface has been installed. This devise connects directly to the radio at the XM connection. It will keep the audio powered after shutdown. Even if the IPOD devise has been unplugged, this device must be removed from the vehicle completely. The devise triggers the Bus to maintain power even when the devise is not powered.
2005-2008. Close both doors. After 2 minutes are there any interior lamps on? Visually check the map lamps on the rear view mirror and vanity lamps. Often these lamps can be bumped and if the car is only driven during the day it will not be noticed. Under dash lamps are controlled by the courtesy lamp switch. Many customers do not realize that the switch has been bumped and they have been turned on. The old switch (C5 cars) used to push in and you could tell it was off. The new switch (C6 cars) does not press in. It can be bumped and turned on and go unnoticed. There should not be any lamps on in the interior of the car after 3 minutes if the ignition has not been turned on, including the cluster. Note anything that is on.
2005-2008. Check for electrical accessories plugged into the cigarette lighter and the accessory plug in the console. Even though there may not be anything plugged into the accessory cord it can be a source of battery draw.
2005-2008. Use the Tech2 and inspect the key cylinder operation for the deck lid or hatch depending on body style. Be sure this cylinder changes status on the Tech2 as the cylinder is rotated. An "Active" input to the BCM may keep the BCM awake and induce a battery drain condition. The Tech2 path is... Model Year > Passenger Car > Chevrolet > Y Car > Body and Accessories > Body Rear End > Data Display > Body Control Module > Chassis Data > Keyless/Remote Start Data > locate the parameter labeled "Trunk Key Cylinder Switch". This item should change from Active to Inactive and the cylinder is rotated.
2005-2008. Remove the CTSY/LAMP fuse from the electrical center. Perform a 20 minute parasitic draw test. Was the draw eliminated with the CTSY/LAMP lamp fuse removed? If so, remove 1732 circuits from the BCM, Connector C4 terminals D5 and E5 and Connector C3 terminal A3. Test for continuity to ground on each terminal. There should be no ground continuity with all devices turned off, trunk/hatch closed and door latches closed. Diagnose and repair circuit conditions on any 1732 branch with unwanted grounding path. Normal system operation will have a signal voltage on the 1732 circuit while powered down and all three 1732 circuits installed at the BCM in their proper connectors.
Note: There have been reports of buttons on the Universal Garage Door Opener sticking. This devise could lead to an intermittent battery drain. Unplug the driver's side visor/sunshade and evaluate. When a button sticks, the vehicles battery draw is typically around 250mA. This device is powered by the 1732 courtesy circuit listed above.
2005-2006. Finally if all the above information has been inspected and Strategy Based Diagnostics has been performed with no resolution, reprogram the PCM/ECM with the latest calibration through TIS-2WEB. Once the calibration has been down loaded to the PCM/ECM, release the vehicle for customer to evaluate. Note: 2007-2008 model year vehicles were given this updated calibration prior to shipping from Bowling Green Assembly.
2005 Model vehicles select the calibration under the tab for "Main Operating System" labeled...
"New software to address potential battery run-down situation"
2006 Model vehicles select the calibration under the tab for "Main Operating System" labeled...
"New software contains diagnostics enhancement for DTC P0128 and DTC P0507. Also addresses battery drain."
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
12-03-2014, 04:56 PM
#15
Drifting
Thread Starter
No, TSBs are not recalls. Technical Service Bulletins are essentially addendums to the shop manual. If you have a specific issue and the fixes in the shop manual don't correct the issue correctly the factory issues a TSB with a better fix. But, obviously, if you don't have the specific issue then the TSB doesn't apply and would be wasted time and effort. A recall is something possibly dangerous and ALL cars manufactured in that VIN range will get the fix whether or not they have the specific issue. Loose axle nuts (not dangerous even though on a lot of cars) get a TSB with a new nut and Locktite. A broken headlight wire (possibly dangerous if the driver doesn't know to turn on high beams but on very few cars) gets a recall.
Dano's TSB that "will solve that problem" doesn't apply to you because, if you read it, the first thing it says is to check to see if the car was left in reverse. If it is then the TSB doesn't apply. You said it was not left in reverse. Therefor that TSB check list is not applicable to your issue. If you go into a dealer with that number and say that is the fix the dealer is going to laugh at you.
Dano's TSB that "will solve that problem" doesn't apply to you because, if you read it, the first thing it says is to check to see if the car was left in reverse. If it is then the TSB doesn't apply. You said it was not left in reverse. Therefor that TSB check list is not applicable to your issue. If you go into a dealer with that number and say that is the fix the dealer is going to laugh at you.
12-04-2014, 07:30 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
Free knife sharpening done while you wait. As I like to say, it's a dirty job but someone has to do it and I do it very well. 
Actually that didn't take long at all. The description of TSB vs. recall is "common knowledge". You hinted that you already knew they were not the same but I went into more detail than you needed because others with even duller blades might come along one day and read this. Finding the checklist took about 15 seconds. Google "PIC4188E site:corvetteforum.com" without the quotes. Taking the time to read the checklist to see if it applied took far longer.
BTW, I thought about mentioning this yesterday but decided I had already done enough damage for one day. There is no fix for "you have to put 2005 manual transmission cars in reverse". GM designed the reverse requirement as one part of the safety/security software. It takes a long time and a lot of money to get software approved for manufacture. They aren't going to go to the expense of "fixing" something that works just because it is inconvenient. But they did recognize that it was inconvenient so the 2006 software did get "fixed" before final approval. The early C6's DID have a real Dead Battery Syndrome (DBS) that was finally fixed by a patch to the software but that was because it was a real issue that couldn't be prevented by a simple operator procedure. There are also patches like the one for the RCDLR parasitic draw but again only for real issues that don't have an operator workaround.
Actually that didn't take long at all. The description of TSB vs. recall is "common knowledge". You hinted that you already knew they were not the same but I went into more detail than you needed because others with even duller blades might come along one day and read this. Finding the checklist took about 15 seconds. Google "PIC4188E site:corvetteforum.com" without the quotes. Taking the time to read the checklist to see if it applied took far longer.
BTW, I thought about mentioning this yesterday but decided I had already done enough damage for one day. There is no fix for "you have to put 2005 manual transmission cars in reverse". GM designed the reverse requirement as one part of the safety/security software. It takes a long time and a lot of money to get software approved for manufacture. They aren't going to go to the expense of "fixing" something that works just because it is inconvenient. But they did recognize that it was inconvenient so the 2006 software did get "fixed" before final approval. The early C6's DID have a real Dead Battery Syndrome (DBS) that was finally fixed by a patch to the software but that was because it was a real issue that couldn't be prevented by a simple operator procedure. There are also patches like the one for the RCDLR parasitic draw but again only for real issues that don't have an operator workaround.
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12-08-2014, 08:35 PM
#18
Racer
Member Since: Aug 2014
Location: Elizabethtown, NC
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Would you please see if you could get the instruction from your mechanic and post them for us. I think if many of us telephone him, he may get disgusted with explaining to so many people one at a time. This would be great information. Thank you
12-16-2014, 03:36 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
I talked to my mechanic today, he is working on a plug and play system for late spring.
So for all you guys with the 05 c6's, a delete option for the shift to reverse shutdown is in progress.
I've got the prototype right now and it works flawless. I will keep everybody posted.
thanks
So for all you guys with the 05 c6's, a delete option for the shift to reverse shutdown is in progress.
I've got the prototype right now and it works flawless. I will keep everybody posted.
thanks