Questions about automatic transmission fluid change
07-21-2017, 03:22 PM
#1
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
Questions about automatic transmission fluid change
Hello all,
I plan to do my automatic transmission fluid this weekend ( 2009 A6 base Z51 Package). I have done some research over the net and there seems to a slight grey area while filling up the transmission with fluid. I have a list of steps i plan to take.
Can you please glance over them and make suggestions.
Thank you for your help in advance.
1) Will jack the corvette on 4 Rhino ramps.
2) Make sure the car is leveled.
Question - 3) Open the drain bolt and let the fluid drain ( Probably a quart comes out ??).
3) Remove the 4 nuts that hold the transmission and diff.
4) Use a jack to raise the transmission enough to get to the pan bolts under the cross member.
5) Unscrew the bolts that hold the pan and take it off carefully.
6) Change the filter.
7) Clean the magnet in the pan and the pan in general.
8) Put the pan back on( new gasket ) and bring the transmission down and bolt the screws on the cross member( not sure of the torque yet).
9) Unbolt the drain plug in the pan again.
10) Start pumping the fluid with - https://tinyurl.com/yaab7agv .
Question - 11) It should roughly take in 4 quarts at this point ( Correct estimate ??).
12) Once the fluid starts dripping put the drain plug back on and start the car ( be extra carefull).
13) Bring up the transmision between 86F to 100F.
14) Open the drain bolt and see if the fluid is draining.
Question - 15) if fluid is not draining -> add more .. It should take another 1.5Q at this point??? Should i keep the car running while i fill again ?
Question - 16) After it starts draining again in step 15, am i done??
Question - 17) As long as the transmission takes in 6.6q i should be good ??
I plan to do my automatic transmission fluid this weekend ( 2009 A6 base Z51 Package). I have done some research over the net and there seems to a slight grey area while filling up the transmission with fluid. I have a list of steps i plan to take.
Can you please glance over them and make suggestions.
Thank you for your help in advance.
1) Will jack the corvette on 4 Rhino ramps.
2) Make sure the car is leveled.
Question - 3) Open the drain bolt and let the fluid drain ( Probably a quart comes out ??).
3) Remove the 4 nuts that hold the transmission and diff.
4) Use a jack to raise the transmission enough to get to the pan bolts under the cross member.
5) Unscrew the bolts that hold the pan and take it off carefully.
6) Change the filter.
7) Clean the magnet in the pan and the pan in general.
8) Put the pan back on( new gasket ) and bring the transmission down and bolt the screws on the cross member( not sure of the torque yet).
9) Unbolt the drain plug in the pan again.
10) Start pumping the fluid with - https://tinyurl.com/yaab7agv .
Question - 11) It should roughly take in 4 quarts at this point ( Correct estimate ??).
12) Once the fluid starts dripping put the drain plug back on and start the car ( be extra carefull).
13) Bring up the transmision between 86F to 100F.
14) Open the drain bolt and see if the fluid is draining.
Question - 15) if fluid is not draining -> add more .. It should take another 1.5Q at this point??? Should i keep the car running while i fill again ?
Question - 16) After it starts draining again in step 15, am i done??
Question - 17) As long as the transmission takes in 6.6q i should be good ??
07-21-2017, 04:11 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Everything looks good to me up to step 12. The way I've done several of these:
12. Start the car (COLD), shift through all the gears then back to neutral
13. Remove the plug and pump more fluid in until it drips.
14. Start monitoring with a temp probe.
15 As the fluid begins to warm up (engine running in neutral) fluid expands and will continue to drip out.
16. When the fluid reaches the correct temp (temp range) pull the probe out cap off the trans, shift back into park, shut off the engine.
17. Done, lower the car off blocks, etc.
The mistake you're going to make is at step 14. If the fluid isn't dripping and you add more fluid when the fluid temp is supposedly correct the new fluid will chill the fluid in the case and you'll overfill. You can keep doing this and eventually get it correct, but it's quicker and done the first time if you use my steps.
The correct fluid level is reached in transmissions without dipsticks on the principle that fluid expands as it is heated. If you start with a full COLD pan (dripping) and engine RUNNING, the fluid is at it's highest level (overfilled). As the fluid rises in temp and expands, the excess is spilling out of the fill hole. When the correct temp is reached, enough overfilled fluid has dripped out leaving the trans at the correct level.
One other note - I use a digital thermometer with an external probe and I take the actual fluid temp. I've seen some techs cheat and use an infrared temp gun taking the temp of the trans case. This leaves the fluid LOW and not at the correct level as heat generated from friction in the running trans first heats the fluid then heat is transferred to to outer case. Unfortunately, far after the fluid has surpassed the correct temp, the trans case is finally catching up. So, my advice is use a thermometer with a probe that can actually take fluid temps. You might be using the car's DIC readout, but I wouldn't be comfortable unless I read the actual fluid temp.
12. Start the car (COLD), shift through all the gears then back to neutral
13. Remove the plug and pump more fluid in until it drips.
14. Start monitoring with a temp probe.
15 As the fluid begins to warm up (engine running in neutral) fluid expands and will continue to drip out.
16. When the fluid reaches the correct temp (temp range) pull the probe out cap off the trans, shift back into park, shut off the engine.
17. Done, lower the car off blocks, etc.
The mistake you're going to make is at step 14. If the fluid isn't dripping and you add more fluid when the fluid temp is supposedly correct the new fluid will chill the fluid in the case and you'll overfill. You can keep doing this and eventually get it correct, but it's quicker and done the first time if you use my steps.
The correct fluid level is reached in transmissions without dipsticks on the principle that fluid expands as it is heated. If you start with a full COLD pan (dripping) and engine RUNNING, the fluid is at it's highest level (overfilled). As the fluid rises in temp and expands, the excess is spilling out of the fill hole. When the correct temp is reached, enough overfilled fluid has dripped out leaving the trans at the correct level.
One other note - I use a digital thermometer with an external probe and I take the actual fluid temp. I've seen some techs cheat and use an infrared temp gun taking the temp of the trans case. This leaves the fluid LOW and not at the correct level as heat generated from friction in the running trans first heats the fluid then heat is transferred to to outer case. Unfortunately, far after the fluid has surpassed the correct temp, the trans case is finally catching up. So, my advice is use a thermometer with a probe that can actually take fluid temps. You might be using the car's DIC readout, but I wouldn't be comfortable unless I read the actual fluid temp.
Last edited by BlindSpot; 07-21-2017 at 04:51 PM.
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technoman007 (07-24-2017)
07-21-2017, 05:32 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2014
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Hello all,
I plan to do my automatic transmission fluid this weekend ( 2009 A6 base Z51 Package). I have done some research over the net and there seems to a slight grey area while filling up the transmission with fluid. I have a list of steps i plan to take.
Can you please glance over them and make suggestions.
Thank you for your help in advance.
1) Will jack the corvette on 4 Rhino ramps.
2) Make sure the car is leveled.
Question - 3) Open the drain bolt and let the fluid drain ( Probably a quart comes out ??).
3) Remove the 4 nuts that hold the transmission and diff.
4) Use a jack to raise the transmission enough to get to the pan bolts under the cross member.
5) Unscrew the bolts that hold the pan and take it off carefully.
6) Change the filter.
7) Clean the magnet in the pan and the pan in general.
8) Put the pan back on( new gasket ) and bring the transmission down and bolt the screws on the cross member( not sure of the torque yet).
9) Unbolt the drain plug in the pan again.
10) Start pumping the fluid with - https://tinyurl.com/yaab7agv .
Question - 11) It should roughly take in 4 quarts at this point ( Correct estimate ??).
12) Once the fluid starts dripping put the drain plug back on and start the car ( be extra carefull).
13) Bring up the transmision between 86F to 100F.
14) Open the drain bolt and see if the fluid is draining.
Question - 15) if fluid is not draining -> add more .. It should take another 1.5Q at this point??? Should i keep the car running while i fill again ?
Question - 16) After it starts draining again in step 15, am i done??
Question - 17) As long as the transmission takes in 6.6q i should be good ??
I plan to do my automatic transmission fluid this weekend ( 2009 A6 base Z51 Package). I have done some research over the net and there seems to a slight grey area while filling up the transmission with fluid. I have a list of steps i plan to take.
Can you please glance over them and make suggestions.
Thank you for your help in advance.
1) Will jack the corvette on 4 Rhino ramps.
2) Make sure the car is leveled.
Question - 3) Open the drain bolt and let the fluid drain ( Probably a quart comes out ??).
3) Remove the 4 nuts that hold the transmission and diff.
4) Use a jack to raise the transmission enough to get to the pan bolts under the cross member.
5) Unscrew the bolts that hold the pan and take it off carefully.
6) Change the filter.
7) Clean the magnet in the pan and the pan in general.
8) Put the pan back on( new gasket ) and bring the transmission down and bolt the screws on the cross member( not sure of the torque yet).
9) Unbolt the drain plug in the pan again.
10) Start pumping the fluid with - https://tinyurl.com/yaab7agv .
Question - 11) It should roughly take in 4 quarts at this point ( Correct estimate ??).
12) Once the fluid starts dripping put the drain plug back on and start the car ( be extra carefull).
13) Bring up the transmision between 86F to 100F.
14) Open the drain bolt and see if the fluid is draining.
Question - 15) if fluid is not draining -> add more .. It should take another 1.5Q at this point??? Should i keep the car running while i fill again ?
Question - 16) After it starts draining again in step 15, am i done??
Question - 17) As long as the transmission takes in 6.6q i should be good ??
Everything looks good to me up to step 12. The way I've done several of these:
12. Start the car (COLD), shift through all the gears then back to neutral
13. Remove the plug and pump more fluid in until it drips.
14. Start monitoring with a temp probe.
15 As the fluid begins to warm up (engine running in neutral) fluid expands and will continue to drip out.
16. When the fluid reaches the correct temp (temp range) pull the probe out cap off the trans, shift back into park, shut off the engine.
17. Done, lower the car off blocks, etc.
The mistake you're going to make is at step 14. If the fluid isn't dripping and you add more fluid when the fluid temp is supposedly correct the new fluid will chill the fluid in the case and you'll overfill. You can keep doing this and eventually get it correct, but it's quicker and done the first time if you use my steps.
The correct fluid level is reached in transmissions without dipsticks on the principle that fluid expands as it is heated. If you start with a full COLD pan (dripping) and engine RUNNING, the fluid is at it's highest level (overfilled). As the fluid rises in temp and expands, the excess is spilling out of the fill hole. When the correct temp is reached, enough overfilled fluid has dripped out leaving the trans at the correct level.
One other note - I use a digital thermometer with an external probe and I take the actual fluid temp. I've seen some techs cheat and use an infrared temp gun taking the temp of the trans case. This leaves the fluid LOW and not at the correct level as heat generated from friction in the running trans first heats the fluid then heat is transferred to to outer case. Unfortunately, far after the fluid has surpassed the correct temp, the trans case is finally catching up. So, my advice is use a thermometer with a probe that can actually take fluid temps. You might be using the car's DIC readout, but I wouldn't be comfortable unless I read the actual fluid temp.
12. Start the car (COLD), shift through all the gears then back to neutral
13. Remove the plug and pump more fluid in until it drips.
14. Start monitoring with a temp probe.
15 As the fluid begins to warm up (engine running in neutral) fluid expands and will continue to drip out.
16. When the fluid reaches the correct temp (temp range) pull the probe out cap off the trans, shift back into park, shut off the engine.
17. Done, lower the car off blocks, etc.
The mistake you're going to make is at step 14. If the fluid isn't dripping and you add more fluid when the fluid temp is supposedly correct the new fluid will chill the fluid in the case and you'll overfill. You can keep doing this and eventually get it correct, but it's quicker and done the first time if you use my steps.
The correct fluid level is reached in transmissions without dipsticks on the principle that fluid expands as it is heated. If you start with a full COLD pan (dripping) and engine RUNNING, the fluid is at it's highest level (overfilled). As the fluid rises in temp and expands, the excess is spilling out of the fill hole. When the correct temp is reached, enough overfilled fluid has dripped out leaving the trans at the correct level.
One other note - I use a digital thermometer with an external probe and I take the actual fluid temp. I've seen some techs cheat and use an infrared temp gun taking the temp of the trans case. This leaves the fluid LOW and not at the correct level as heat generated from friction in the running trans first heats the fluid then heat is transferred to to outer case. Unfortunately, far after the fluid has surpassed the correct temp, the trans case is finally catching up. So, my advice is use a thermometer with a probe that can actually take fluid temps. You might be using the car's DIC readout, but I wouldn't be comfortable unless I read the actual fluid temp.
NSF
07-21-2017, 05:43 PM
#5
If the ambient temp outside is already 100 degrees and the fluid is left out side a few hours, seems like you should be able to just fill and be done.
Or another thought, why not just put the trans fluid bottles in a pan of hot water and bring the fluid up to temp before you pump it into the trans.
Or another thought, why not just put the trans fluid bottles in a pan of hot water and bring the fluid up to temp before you pump it into the trans.
07-21-2017, 06:20 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
5 yr coolant now instead of the old 2 yr
Diff cases with lifetime fills now instead of every 30K miles
and transmissions with lifetime fills now instead of every 24K to 30K intervals.
For the manufacturers, it is easier to build a "sealed for life" unit to satisfy the EPA and not give the average user the opportunity to even "probe" the fluid with a dipstick. The dipstick alone defies the definition of "sealed for life". By "sealing" it, supposedly, the average owner is being "retrained" into viewing lifetime fills for certain components.
In Europe, ZF transmissions used in numerous high end cars are now all sealed for life, and ZF requires ZF Lifeguard 5, 6 or 8 fluid only if a trans needs to be opened. They do not market or sell the trans fluid in quart containers and the replacement fluid is priced $60/quart. All this to discourage the aftermarket intrusion/servicing on their transmissions. It's basically - leave it alone until/unless it fails. In my wife's Jaguar, if the "lifetime filled" ZF trans fails, Jaguar just pulls it and replaces it up to the warranty. After that, same thing, only now I pay for it. It is just an R&R unit, no unit repairs, no fluid changes...ever....
Eventually, only us dinosaurs will still be trying to change fluids, then we'll all be gone.....and the EPA is patient and willing to wait us out! Look at the recommendation in post #3...see, it's already working....
Last edited by BlindSpot; 07-21-2017 at 07:44 PM.
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Not So Fast (07-21-2017)
07-21-2017, 07:59 PM
#7
Drifting
I am not informed at all when it comes to the Corvette A6 transmission. That being said, does the torque converter get it's fluid from the transmission as it does in a conventional arrangement with the trans bolted directly to the engine? If so, then how does one go about changing the fluid in the torque converter? When I was working for my brother as a mechanic, we would drain the trans, pull the pan to change the filter and clean, etc., replace the pan and fill the trans. We would then disconnect one of the cooler lines to the radiator, and start the engine. The trans would pump fluid through the torque converter and cooler line into a drain pan. After draining about 4 quarts, we would turn the engine off, refill the trans, and go through the same action again. We would do this until the fluid being drained was clean, new fluid. It would usually take about 2 quarts more than the entire system held (10 to 12 quarts). So again, is there a way to do this in our Corvettes? Or is it necessary? JMHO
07-21-2017, 08:58 PM
#9
Pro
Hello all,
I plan to do my automatic transmission fluid this weekend ( 2009 A6 base Z51 Package). I have done some research over the net and there seems to a slight grey area while filling up the transmission with fluid. I have a list of steps i plan to take.
Can you please glance over them and make suggestions.
Thank you for your help in advance.
1) Will jack the corvette on 4 Rhino ramps.
2) Make sure the car is leveled.
Question - 3) Open the drain bolt and let the fluid drain ( Probably a quart comes out ??).
3) Remove the 4 nuts that hold the transmission and diff.
4) Use a jack to raise the transmission enough to get to the pan bolts under the cross member.
5) Unscrew the bolts that hold the pan and take it off carefully.
6) Change the filter.
7) Clean the magnet in the pan and the pan in general.
8) Put the pan back on( new gasket ) and bring the transmission down and bolt the screws on the cross member( not sure of the torque yet).
9) Unbolt the drain plug in the pan again.
10) Start pumping the fluid with - https://tinyurl.com/yaab7agv .
Question - 11) It should roughly take in 4 quarts at this point ( Correct estimate ??).
12) Once the fluid starts dripping put the drain plug back on and start the car ( be extra carefull).
13) Bring up the transmision between 86F to 100F.
14) Open the drain bolt and see if the fluid is draining.
Question - 15) if fluid is not draining -> add more .. It should take another 1.5Q at this point??? Should i keep the car running while i fill again ?
Question - 16) After it starts draining again in step 15, am i done??
Question - 17) As long as the transmission takes in 6.6q i should be good ??
I plan to do my automatic transmission fluid this weekend ( 2009 A6 base Z51 Package). I have done some research over the net and there seems to a slight grey area while filling up the transmission with fluid. I have a list of steps i plan to take.
Can you please glance over them and make suggestions.
Thank you for your help in advance.
1) Will jack the corvette on 4 Rhino ramps.
2) Make sure the car is leveled.
Question - 3) Open the drain bolt and let the fluid drain ( Probably a quart comes out ??).
3) Remove the 4 nuts that hold the transmission and diff.
4) Use a jack to raise the transmission enough to get to the pan bolts under the cross member.
5) Unscrew the bolts that hold the pan and take it off carefully.
6) Change the filter.
7) Clean the magnet in the pan and the pan in general.
8) Put the pan back on( new gasket ) and bring the transmission down and bolt the screws on the cross member( not sure of the torque yet).
9) Unbolt the drain plug in the pan again.
10) Start pumping the fluid with - https://tinyurl.com/yaab7agv .
Question - 11) It should roughly take in 4 quarts at this point ( Correct estimate ??).
12) Once the fluid starts dripping put the drain plug back on and start the car ( be extra carefull).
13) Bring up the transmision between 86F to 100F.
14) Open the drain bolt and see if the fluid is draining.
Question - 15) if fluid is not draining -> add more .. It should take another 1.5Q at this point??? Should i keep the car running while i fill again ?
Question - 16) After it starts draining again in step 15, am i done??
Question - 17) As long as the transmission takes in 6.6q i should be good ??
Best regards
Last edited by montman; 07-21-2017 at 09:12 PM.
07-22-2017, 07:53 PM
#10
Drifting
You can get a couple of fluid pumps at Harbor freight for about 6 bucks each. You can remove the plug, but quite a bit stays in the pan. I used one of these pumps to suck out the old stuff and one to fill clean fluid. I went ahead and just put 7 quarts in then brought it up to correct temp on the dash display by driving slowly around the block. Then, with the car level and running, I pulled the plug and let the excess run out. You don't want to try and add fluid with it running - PITA.
Best regards
Best regards
07-22-2017, 07:59 PM
#12
Pro
07-22-2017, 08:06 PM
#13
Pro
That's your choice, but if the tranny fails and you are hit with a $3500.00 bill plus towing and 4 nights in a hotel you might wonder if following the manufacturers advice would have been better. Especially if they tell you the fluid looked brown and the magnet and filter were all full of particles.
07-22-2017, 08:09 PM
#14
Pro
07-22-2017, 09:44 PM
#15
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I am not denying that GM recommends changing it but I do worry about changing transmission fluid as every time I have had issues with the transmission after changing the fluid. Hence, I would rather leave it alone. From what I read here, anybody who changed the fluid said it came out in really good condition.
07-22-2017, 09:58 PM
#16
Pro
I am not denying that GM recommends changing it but I do worry about changing transmission fluid as every time I have had issues with the transmission after changing the fluid. Hence, I would rather leave it alone. From what I read here, anybody who changed the fluid said it came out in really good condition.
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Mad*Max (07-23-2017)
07-22-2017, 10:25 PM
#17
Over a hundred grand: Dont flush, just drain and replace.
And if you get to 230,000, you too, can replace the tranny.
I'm still driving the **** out of the blue one.
And if you get to 230,000, you too, can replace the tranny.
I'm still driving the **** out of the blue one.
07-23-2017, 10:15 PM
#18
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C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...tructions.html
Here's another with a tool that's modified to make extraction and replacement of the fill plug an easy task, especially since you will be working close to the hot exhaust pipe.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uid-plugs.html
And one more that's not for the faint of heart, but will make the fill easier.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-a6-fluid.html
While I don't think BlindSpot's method for checking fluid temperature is wrong, it appears to be a bit overkill. The temperature sensor in the transmission is within mere inches of where a probe could fit and it transmits that to the DIC where the service manual indicates the temperature is to be observed. Will there be a problem using an independent probe? Not likely, since even a 5 degree difference won't affect the operation. But I certainly agree that using an infrared gun on the pan is not reliable.
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technoman007 (07-24-2017)
07-24-2017, 08:23 AM
#19
Le Mans Master
Some words about doing this fluid change - Having done a number of different transmissions, but mostly ZF 5HP25s and 6HP26s, no matter the car, one thing that is common in all, there is a hot exhaust pipe right there. The fill plugs are always close to impossible to access and it is very difficult to get fluid in even though the plug is removed and fill done while the engine/trans/exhaust is cold. Before you can get all the fluid in on the startup, the exhaust WILL be hot.
A lot of fluid is going to be spilled, simply by the process alone, but if its your first time, figuring out hand pumps, containers and fill angles, fluid will be spilled. Plan for that in the fluid quantity.
In 7/8 years of doing these, I've developed tools, probes, pumps to make it work easily and efficiently. Most importantly, I've only done these on a lift. On a lift, the car is much safer to work under while the engine is running, it takes about 8 to 15 mins of running from a cold start to reach the correct fill temp. During that time I'm mostly not under the car. If you use/rely on the DIC, here too, you'll not be under the car most of the warmup time.
If you took the tools away, the process away, and especially the lift and put me under the running car on jackstands, I probably wouldn't do this job.
A lot of fluid is going to be spilled, simply by the process alone, but if its your first time, figuring out hand pumps, containers and fill angles, fluid will be spilled. Plan for that in the fluid quantity.
In 7/8 years of doing these, I've developed tools, probes, pumps to make it work easily and efficiently. Most importantly, I've only done these on a lift. On a lift, the car is much safer to work under while the engine is running, it takes about 8 to 15 mins of running from a cold start to reach the correct fill temp. During that time I'm mostly not under the car. If you use/rely on the DIC, here too, you'll not be under the car most of the warmup time.
If you took the tools away, the process away, and especially the lift and put me under the running car on jackstands, I probably wouldn't do this job.
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technoman007 (07-24-2017)
07-24-2017, 10:26 AM
#20
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2014
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Some words about doing this fluid change - Having done a number of different transmissions, but mostly ZF 5HP25s and 6HP26s, no matter the car, one thing that is common in all, there is a hot exhaust pipe right there. The fill plugs are always close to impossible to access and it is very difficult to get fluid in even though the plug is removed and fill done while the engine/trans/exhaust is cold. Before you can get all the fluid in on the startup, the exhaust WILL be hot.
A lot of fluid is going to be spilled, simply by the process alone, but if its your first time, figuring out hand pumps, containers and fill angles, fluid will be spilled. Plan for that in the fluid quantity.
In 7/8 years of doing these, I've developed tools, probes, pumps to make it work easily and efficiently. Most importantly, I've only done these on a lift. On a lift, the car is much safer to work under while the engine is running, it takes about 8 to 15 mins of running from a cold start to reach the correct fill temp. During that time I'm mostly not under the car. If you use/rely on the DIC, here too, you'll not be under the car most of the warmup time.
If you took the tools away, the process away, and especially the lift and put me under the running car on jackstands, I probably wouldn't do this job.
A lot of fluid is going to be spilled, simply by the process alone, but if its your first time, figuring out hand pumps, containers and fill angles, fluid will be spilled. Plan for that in the fluid quantity.
In 7/8 years of doing these, I've developed tools, probes, pumps to make it work easily and efficiently. Most importantly, I've only done these on a lift. On a lift, the car is much safer to work under while the engine is running, it takes about 8 to 15 mins of running from a cold start to reach the correct fill temp. During that time I'm mostly not under the car. If you use/rely on the DIC, here too, you'll not be under the car most of the warmup time.
If you took the tools away, the process away, and especially the lift and put me under the running car on jackstands, I probably wouldn't do this job.
NSF
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BlindSpot (07-24-2017)