Sell C6 for a Porsche Cayman S?
09-21-2017, 11:09 PM
#41
Race Director
I didn't read any of the previous comment because they were long winded, and I have a short attention span.
I looked at a Boxster S before I bought my first C6. It was a nice car, and my family has a thing for Porsches. Loved the boxer engine sound, and the car was supremely capable. That said, it was frankly not that interesting to drive. It has the same sort of crazy high performance limits you get in a Corvette, without the drama from the powertrain. It turns and behaves and there's no fuss or drama to any of it. That wasn't for me. I like that if I give the Corvette a bit of extra gas the rear end slides and the tires spin.
I would buy a 911 over a Cayman for sure. The rear engine at least gives you the weight transfer to play with and entertain yourself. The mid-engine is great for bragging and winning races, but it's not that great for anything other than that.
I looked at a Boxster S before I bought my first C6. It was a nice car, and my family has a thing for Porsches. Loved the boxer engine sound, and the car was supremely capable. That said, it was frankly not that interesting to drive. It has the same sort of crazy high performance limits you get in a Corvette, without the drama from the powertrain. It turns and behaves and there's no fuss or drama to any of it. That wasn't for me. I like that if I give the Corvette a bit of extra gas the rear end slides and the tires spin.
I would buy a 911 over a Cayman for sure. The rear engine at least gives you the weight transfer to play with and entertain yourself. The mid-engine is great for bragging and winning races, but it's not that great for anything other than that.
09-22-2017, 05:57 AM
#42
This is really the key point. My 13 GS will out handle, out brake, and WAY out accelerate (700RW) many Porsches and most BMWs. However it does not have that magical "feel". This really comes down to how the steering and the chassis react and communicate with the driver. This has always been true of Corvettes I've had (C4s, C5s, C6), while the Porsches and BMWs have always had it (although BMW lost some of it when it went to electric steering). I used to run my Vettes at road courses, and my current one I do a LOT of backroad twisty driving (Tail of the Dragon, Three Sisters in TX, Arkansas back roads, etc), and I guarantee you my GS would walk away from even a Cayman GT4 (have driven a coworker's), but the big difference is that I feel uncomfortable pushing my GS past 8-9/10ths because it just doesn't promote driver confidence at the limit. In contrast the sweetest car I've ever driven was a little Porsche 944 Turbo, I could place that car exactly where I wanted it and drive it to 10/10ths and never worry that it was going to get away from me. Same thing with the Cayman GT4, BMW Z4M that I owned (last of the hydraulic steering, NA straight six BMW M cars), and even my wife's 2010 335i Sport.
The question is what's more important to you? Living in Dallas, big HP is the thing here where my measly 700RW wouldn't even make the cut for some events. It would take WAY more money to get a car with that "feel" to the HP level I want for doing 1/2 mile & 1 mile events, and honestly I don't need that "feel" to drive around expressway/tollway. If I lived in North GA, TN or the Carolinas, I'd drop the Vette like a hot potato and go for a BMW or Porsche and spend all my weekends on Tail of the Dragon or other mountain roads. As a matter of fact, I'm actually starting to look for a gen 1 Boxster S to keep at my parents place in North GA for just that reason.
The question is what's more important to you? Living in Dallas, big HP is the thing here where my measly 700RW wouldn't even make the cut for some events. It would take WAY more money to get a car with that "feel" to the HP level I want for doing 1/2 mile & 1 mile events, and honestly I don't need that "feel" to drive around expressway/tollway. If I lived in North GA, TN or the Carolinas, I'd drop the Vette like a hot potato and go for a BMW or Porsche and spend all my weekends on Tail of the Dragon or other mountain roads. As a matter of fact, I'm actually starting to look for a gen 1 Boxster S to keep at my parents place in North GA for just that reason.
09-22-2017, 06:17 AM
#43
Burning Brakes
Yes I do. I read up on the boxster/Cayman extensively. Where I live there aren't alot of porsches or corvettes for that matter. So selection isn't what it would be in a US city per say.
Last edited by JCamaro; 09-22-2017 at 06:17 AM.
09-22-2017, 06:25 AM
#44
I always felt the cayman was just a luxury S2000 with a little more power. I basically traded my S for the vette.
Just my 2 cents.
Just my 2 cents.
09-22-2017, 06:52 AM
#45
Le Mans Master
I.......
........Refreshing. This is rare, civil. Somehow, the tribal instincts didn't kick in and it's informative to hear real first-hand discussion from those who have experience with both.
09-22-2017, 08:07 AM
#46
I have an '08 C6 and an '05 Carrera, both base 6MT, both bone stock, both DDs on alternate days or weeks. They are apples ans oranges. Their respective advantages and disadvantages seem to cancel out, I can't pick a fave. That's why I have both.
One thing if considering an older Boxster or Cayman is that the cost of a major repair (engine or transmission) often exceeds the car's value and leaves the owner in a bind.
One thing if considering an older Boxster or Cayman is that the cost of a major repair (engine or transmission) often exceeds the car's value and leaves the owner in a bind.
09-22-2017, 08:25 AM
#47
Le Mans Master
I have an '08 C6 and an '05 Carrera, both base 6MT, both bone stock, both DDs on alternate days or weeks. They are apples ans oranges. Their respective advantages and disadvantages seem to cancel out, I can't pick a fave. That's why I have both.
One thing if considering an older Boxster or Cayman is that the cost of a major repair (engine or transmission) often exceeds the car's value and leaves the owner in a bind.
One thing if considering an older Boxster or Cayman is that the cost of a major repair (engine or transmission) often exceeds the car's value and leaves the owner in a bind.
Being on both sides of the equation as well, and having done repairs and purchased parts for both Euro cars (not Porsche per se) and American cars (C6), yes, it can get crazy and beyond economical sense to fix/repair a Euro Marque at some point.
I've paid ridiculous money for stupid little broken parts on a Jaguar XK, for example, over a similar part on the C6. It makes a difference in two places - source of the part and volume.
Think of the C6 common HB failure and forgetting the aftermarket for a moment, imagine how many replacement GM HBs are manufactured. Compare that to the cost of replacing a HB on any model Porsche. The GM unit goes for something like less than $60. I bet you'll pay somewhere in the ATI range if you had to replace the Porsche HB, but not likely you ever will in this example.
09-22-2017, 08:49 AM
#48
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I wouldn't reccomend one of those generation Caymans. My friend had a 2006 Cayman S with 65ish thousand miles and the engine ate itself. It started running rough on a road trip. He checked the oil and there was what looked like gold dust in the oil (presumably bearing material). Engine was shot. Apparently there are a number of design flaws in this engine and if they show up it's toast.
The worst part is the cost to repair. Engine rebuilds start at 10 grand and that was just a rebuild, we pulled and reinstalled the engine ourselves. Add another 2 grand at least to have a shop do that.
You can get a used engine for a little less but it will have all the same potential issues as the original engine. The rebuild does solve a lot of issues.
When it runs it is a great driving car but the cost of repairs is just too much in my opinion. It really hurts having to put 10+Gs into a car that's only worth about 20-25G. If you must have one I would make sure I could pay cash and be aware that the they can be very expensive to fix if engine issues pop up.
My opinion on these cars is that they are built to survive the warranty period and after that it's a crap shoot. This may be the case with a lot of cars but major out of warranty repairs are a killer and most cars aren't known to eat very expensive engines like these do either. If you are planning on buying one do some research and spend some time reading the Cayman/Boxter forums and make sure you know what you are getting into.
Last edited by leemann2@yahoo.com; 09-22-2017 at 08:57 AM. Reason: Add pic
09-22-2017, 09:22 AM
#49
Instructor
I don't understand why an engine for a 20k Cayman cost more than half the original value of the vehicle. Somebody is capitalizing off the bad Porsche design flaw.
09-22-2017, 09:45 AM
#50
All you Porsche Boxster owners, how is the leg room and the over all comfort for a 6ft 2in person. I had a BMW Z4 and absolutely love the car but over time I became very uncomfortable. I felt like if the seat would go back 4-5 more inches and maybe lean back a little more I would still be driving it. I bought the C6 because it had so much more leg room and all my other corvettes had fit me like a glove. I guess I need to test drive one of the 2013 and newer Boxster's to find out.
09-22-2017, 10:01 AM
#51
The Boxster and Cayman were redesigned and given more interior room in (I think) 2013 for the Boxster and 2014 for the Cayman.
I agree - this has been a good thread.
I test drove an 09 Cayman a few years ago. I'm 6'1", 195#. I felt a bit cramped.
I'd like to test drive a newer one to see how I fit.
I agree - this has been a good thread.
I test drove an 09 Cayman a few years ago. I'm 6'1", 195#. I felt a bit cramped.
I'd like to test drive a newer one to see how I fit.
Last edited by A Marsh; 09-22-2017 at 10:03 AM.
09-22-2017, 10:35 AM
#52
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All you Porsche Boxster owners, how is the leg room and the over all comfort for a 6ft 2in person. I had a BMW Z4 and absolutely love the car but over time I became very uncomfortable. I felt like if the seat would go back 4-5 more inches and maybe lean back a little more I would still be driving it. I bought the C6 because it had so much more leg room and all my other corvettes had fit me like a glove. I guess I need to test drive one of the 2013 and newer Boxster's to find out.
Last edited by leemann2@yahoo.com; 09-22-2017 at 10:36 AM.
09-22-2017, 10:42 AM
#53
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2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
- It is a more complex engine than an LS.
- Fewer people that know how to do the work (both building the engine and install).
- Supply & demand, there are way fewer Boxster/Caymans sold then Vettes. Heck, until this decade Porsche sold fewer cars TOTAL in North America most years than Corvette.
Don't compare it to doing an LS1/LS3 rebuild, but rather think along the lines of a good LS7 rebuild/replace. I've seen multiple of those done by friends, and most of them were closer to $20K when it was all done. Sure you can go cheap on the rebuild or find a junkyard motor, but if you like your car why would you do that?
It was the same thing back in the late 90s when I went through a couple of 944 Turbos, the cost of repairs easily was more than the cost of the car. One car I bought for $5K, and promptly put $15K into in 12 months (and that was without blowing the engine). Another one I sold to my mechanic when the engine let go because it would have cost significantly more than what I paid for the car to replace it.
09-22-2017, 11:18 AM
#54
The Boxster was just like the S2000 but with more power and torque, upgraded brakes, 19" wheels, adjustable suspension, aftermarket radio, heated and ventilated seats dynamic cornering xeon headlights, hill assist (no roll back), roomier interior and an a second large trunk (frunk).
The s2000's smooth shifter can't be beat though.
09-22-2017, 11:35 AM
#55
I wouldn't reccomend one of those generation Caymans. My friend had a 2006 Cayman S with 65ish thousand miles and the engine ate itself. It started running rough on a road trip. He checked the oil and there was what looked like gold dust in the oil (presumably bearing material). Engine was shot. Apparently there are a number of design flaws in this engine and if they show up it's toast.
The worst part is the cost to repair. Engine rebuilds start at 10 grand and that was just a rebuild, we pulled and reinstalled the engine ourselves. Add another 2 grand at least to have a shop do that.
You can get a used engine for a little less but it will have all the same potential issues as the original engine. The rebuild does solve a lot of issues.
When it runs it is a great driving car but the cost of repairs is just too much in my opinion. It really hurts having to put 10+Gs into a car that's only worth about 20-25G. If you must have one I would make sure I could pay cash and be aware that the they can be very expensive to fix if engine issues pop up.
My opinion on these cars is that they are built to survive the warranty period and after that it's a crap shoot. This may be the case with a lot of cars but major out of warranty repairs are a killer and most cars aren't known to eat very expensive engines like these do either. If you are planning on buying one do some research and spend some time reading the Cayman/Boxter forums and make sure you know what you are getting into.
09-22-2017, 11:40 AM
#56
9A1Engine oil sump test: (A cool video where you can hear this engine sing).
Last edited by CloudLS9; 09-22-2017 at 11:43 AM.
09-22-2017, 12:32 PM
#57
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It was actually very stable and solid despite how it looks in the pic. Also the way the engine/trans goes in there was no jerking the body around or anything like that. It was definitely challenging to do without a lift though. Took about 2 days to remove and 2 days to replace(about 2 months apart). There was a lot of time spent figuring out how to do things so we could probably do it again in about half the time. He did sell it not too long after the rebuild. He was pretty much done with the car after that ordeal.
09-22-2017, 01:36 PM
#58
Thanks for the reply, this car will not be tracked, neither is my current car. I am thinking of registering on a porsche forum, thanks for the idea
It is not a daily, but it is still a pain in the ***. I remember the good ole days when she was just bolt ons with a stock clutch. I was actually thinking of selling it and getting a low miles c6 z51. Basically starting over lol
Thank you for this response. I have indeed read up on the IMS issue but learned that it is actually rare. The car i guess felt smoother than my car. Less road noise and bumps, it had a tighter steering wheel than my vette too, so does my beamer. The vette can take a turn though i will tell you that, it just "feels" better in the porsche and bmw. Part of the reason i started to consider the porsche cayman s too is that what i was led to believe about porsche maintenance and parts are false. In fact a lot of the parts, for the cayman s at least, are alot cheaper than my vette parts. Mind you i only looked at clutch costs, brakes, etc compared to my vette. I will say though after driving that car i almost want to consolidate my vehicles into just owning the porsche. I could drive it every day and beat it up on the weekends. My heads cam mint conditioned vette gets a lot of attention and its beautiful, but at the end of the day do i enjoy the actually driving it, so so.
It is not a daily, but it is still a pain in the ***. I remember the good ole days when she was just bolt ons with a stock clutch. I was actually thinking of selling it and getting a low miles c6 z51. Basically starting over lol
Thank you for this response. I have indeed read up on the IMS issue but learned that it is actually rare. The car i guess felt smoother than my car. Less road noise and bumps, it had a tighter steering wheel than my vette too, so does my beamer. The vette can take a turn though i will tell you that, it just "feels" better in the porsche and bmw. Part of the reason i started to consider the porsche cayman s too is that what i was led to believe about porsche maintenance and parts are false. In fact a lot of the parts, for the cayman s at least, are alot cheaper than my vette parts. Mind you i only looked at clutch costs, brakes, etc compared to my vette. I will say though after driving that car i almost want to consolidate my vehicles into just owning the porsche. I could drive it every day and beat it up on the weekends. My heads cam mint conditioned vette gets a lot of attention and its beautiful, but at the end of the day do i enjoy the actually driving it, so so.
09-22-2017, 03:28 PM
#59
Safety Car
Thanks for the input. I plan to add a sound insulation kit, I'll look in to the partition as well.
I usually drive with the exhaust valves open and radio up as the exhaust drone masks the other noises that bug me. Today, on the ride home I shut if off for a bit to listen to some of the other sounds. There is a lot of wind noise over the roof that I wonder if a new headliner could help with. Also, the run flat tires make a bit of noise but I'm not comfortable without a spare so hopefully the insulation kit and partition helps with that.
I usually drive with the exhaust valves open and radio up as the exhaust drone masks the other noises that bug me. Today, on the ride home I shut if off for a bit to listen to some of the other sounds. There is a lot of wind noise over the roof that I wonder if a new headliner could help with. Also, the run flat tires make a bit of noise but I'm not comfortable without a spare so hopefully the insulation kit and partition helps with that.
I've taken the runflats off the vette and my Cadillac ATS. A spare is only needed in the event of a big blow-out. I drove a boxster before buying the vette. Car handled like it was on rails; just wished it had more power.
09-22-2017, 06:47 PM
#60
I had an S2000 as well, it was a great handling well balanced car with a lot of aftermarket potential.
The Boxster was just like the S2000 but with more power and torque, upgraded brakes, 19" wheels, adjustable suspension, aftermarket radio, heated and ventilated seats dynamic cornering xeon headlights, hill assist (no roll back), roomier interior and an a second large trunk (frunk).
The s2000's smooth shifter can't be beat though.
The Boxster was just like the S2000 but with more power and torque, upgraded brakes, 19" wheels, adjustable suspension, aftermarket radio, heated and ventilated seats dynamic cornering xeon headlights, hill assist (no roll back), roomier interior and an a second large trunk (frunk).
The s2000's smooth shifter can't be beat though.
Still an ugly car tho.
The cayman, in my opinion, is the best looking porsche of this decade. I'd bet if they threw in the GT3RS engine in there, it'd outsell the 911.
Also, it'd lose nothing to the corvette in terms of power, and probably outhandle it with wide/sticky enough tires because of its MR setup.