Dealership Rip Off ?
10-13-2017, 08:29 PM
#41
Le Mans Master
just to touch base for the OP with something he wrote: "have a 1 yr warranty on all parts replaced. THEY can pay to have it towed and the fix is on them."
NO, they will NOT pay for the tow. You will have to pay to have it towed there because, at the time of your next problem, there is no proof that their part is to blame. Then, after it is towed there, I guarantee they will find a different problem, one that has nothing to do with any of the parts they replaced. Don't get screwed again! Ask around to find someone in your town who has a good reputation for honesty and results. Then, use that shop next time around.
NO, they will NOT pay for the tow. You will have to pay to have it towed there because, at the time of your next problem, there is no proof that their part is to blame. Then, after it is towed there, I guarantee they will find a different problem, one that has nothing to do with any of the parts they replaced. Don't get screwed again! Ask around to find someone in your town who has a good reputation for honesty and results. Then, use that shop next time around.
10-13-2017, 08:53 PM
#42
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No, those codes are "permanent" codes. You can turn off the CEL with a basic scanner, but the code is still in the memory of the ECM. You either have to do a drive cycle to get the test to run to clear the code, or use a Tech II to "force" the test to run.
10-13-2017, 08:54 PM
#43
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10-13-2017, 10:59 PM
#45
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10-14-2017, 06:55 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
From GM:
Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions
Diagnostic trouble codes (OTCs) are categorized into emissions and non-emissions related types, If a DTC is set, the malfunction Indicator lamp (MIL) and failure data are utilized by the control module diagnostic executive according to the DTC type. Each OTC is set based upon the individual DTCs running and setting criteria. Read the Action Taken When the OTC Sets and Conditions for Clearing the MILJDTC in the supporting text for taking appropriate action to each DTC.
Emissions Related DTCs
Type A
The following actions occur at the time of the first failure:
• The MIL is turned ON.
• A OTC is stored in memory.
• The Freeze Frame/Failure Records are stored.
• The Failure Records are updated after the first failure of each ignition cycle.
Some Type A DTCs will not perform the above actions when the OTC first detects a failure. Two consecutive failures are required. This allows systems, such as evaporative omission (EVAP), to accurately identify what failure exists before setting a DTC and requesting MIL illumination.
Type B
The following actions occur at one of the following times:
• First failure:
— The MIL is not turned ON,
- A OTC is stored in memory as a Failed Last Test.
- The Failure Records are stored.
Second consecutive drive cycle with a failure:
— The MIL is turned ON.
- A DTC is stored in memory as a history OTC The Freeze Frame data is stored.
— The Failure Records are stored.
Second non-consecutive drive cycle with a failure:
— The MIL is not turned ON.
— A DTC is stored in memory as a Failed Last Test.
The Failure Records are stored.
Non-Emissions Related DTCs
Type C
The following actions occur at the time of a failure:
• The MIL does not tum ON.
• A DTC is stored in memory as a history OTC.
• The Failure Records are stored.
The Failure Records are updated after the first failure of each ignition cycle.
• Some Type C DTCs may also cause an auxiliary service lamp to be illuminated. and/or display a message to the vehicle operator.
Type X
Actions did not occur. These DTCs are coded into the control module software. but will not run for one of the following reasons:
• The associated hardware is not installed with the vehicle emission package.
• The diagnostic is not required for the vehicle emission package.
Diagnostic trouble codes (OTCs) are categorized into emissions and non-emissions related types, If a DTC is set, the malfunction Indicator lamp (MIL) and failure data are utilized by the control module diagnostic executive according to the DTC type. Each OTC is set based upon the individual DTCs running and setting criteria. Read the Action Taken When the OTC Sets and Conditions for Clearing the MILJDTC in the supporting text for taking appropriate action to each DTC.
Emissions Related DTCs
Type A
The following actions occur at the time of the first failure:
• The MIL is turned ON.
• A OTC is stored in memory.
• The Freeze Frame/Failure Records are stored.
• The Failure Records are updated after the first failure of each ignition cycle.
Some Type A DTCs will not perform the above actions when the OTC first detects a failure. Two consecutive failures are required. This allows systems, such as evaporative omission (EVAP), to accurately identify what failure exists before setting a DTC and requesting MIL illumination.
Type B
The following actions occur at one of the following times:
• First failure:
— The MIL is not turned ON,
- A OTC is stored in memory as a Failed Last Test.
- The Failure Records are stored.
Second consecutive drive cycle with a failure:
— The MIL is turned ON.
- A DTC is stored in memory as a history OTC The Freeze Frame data is stored.
— The Failure Records are stored.
Second non-consecutive drive cycle with a failure:
— The MIL is not turned ON.
— A DTC is stored in memory as a Failed Last Test.
The Failure Records are stored.
Non-Emissions Related DTCs
Type C
The following actions occur at the time of a failure:
• The MIL does not tum ON.
• A DTC is stored in memory as a history OTC.
• The Failure Records are stored.
The Failure Records are updated after the first failure of each ignition cycle.
• Some Type C DTCs may also cause an auxiliary service lamp to be illuminated. and/or display a message to the vehicle operator.
Type X
Actions did not occur. These DTCs are coded into the control module software. but will not run for one of the following reasons:
• The associated hardware is not installed with the vehicle emission package.
• The diagnostic is not required for the vehicle emission package.
Last edited by FortMorganAl; 10-14-2017 at 06:59 PM.
10-14-2017, 07:06 PM
#47
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
So... the car is now running smoothly again after a ton of new parts were put on by the stealership but I noticed something else.
I am not getting anywhere near the gas mileage I was before all of this. Made a 25 mile run on open highway at or below 70. Came back (all open highway) and checked gas mileage. It shows only 21.7 m/gal over a 50+ mile trip.
And yes, I filled the tank before I left and reset all the parameters on the fuel button as well as reset trip, average speed and all that stuff.
So.. why I am only getting less than 22 m/gal when I used to get 28-29 on the highway at that speed an no traffic?
I am not getting anywhere near the gas mileage I was before all of this. Made a 25 mile run on open highway at or below 70. Came back (all open highway) and checked gas mileage. It shows only 21.7 m/gal over a 50+ mile trip.
And yes, I filled the tank before I left and reset all the parameters on the fuel button as well as reset trip, average speed and all that stuff.
So.. why I am only getting less than 22 m/gal when I used to get 28-29 on the highway at that speed an no traffic?
10-14-2017, 07:53 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
So... the car is now running smoothly again after a ton of new parts were put on by the stealership but I noticed something else.
I am not getting anywhere near the gas mileage I was before all of this. Made a 25 mile run on open highway at or below 70. Came back (all open highway) and checked gas mileage. It shows only 21.7 m/gal over a 50+ mile trip.
And yes, I filled the tank before I left and reset all the parameters on the fuel button as well as reset trip, average speed and all that stuff.
So.. why I am only getting less than 22 m/gal when I used to get 28-29 on the highway at that speed an no traffic?
I am not getting anywhere near the gas mileage I was before all of this. Made a 25 mile run on open highway at or below 70. Came back (all open highway) and checked gas mileage. It shows only 21.7 m/gal over a 50+ mile trip.
And yes, I filled the tank before I left and reset all the parameters on the fuel button as well as reset trip, average speed and all that stuff.
So.. why I am only getting less than 22 m/gal when I used to get 28-29 on the highway at that speed an no traffic?
What was replaced? Based on you offer, there could be reasons the EMS is settling in to new parts depending on what those might be.
Last edited by BlindSpot; 10-14-2017 at 07:53 PM.
10-15-2017, 12:02 AM
#50
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The above is almost total
From GM:
Some codes require more than 50 consecutive cold start cycles without an error before they will be deleted from memory. Others delete as soon as the issue is resolved. Each code has its own criteria. But I have seen a lot of inexpensive code readers and never seen one that would not reset all the codes AND the history. The problem with inspections is that the ECM will also record that the codes have been erased. Or, more likely, people try to erase the codes and then drive to the inspection but as soon as they start the engine, the issue is still present and starts setting history prior to getting enough cycles to illuminate the CEL. They think because there is no CEL they are good but the system is just setting up a history again before illuminating the CEL.
From GM:
Some codes require more than 50 consecutive cold start cycles without an error before they will be deleted from memory. Others delete as soon as the issue is resolved. Each code has its own criteria. But I have seen a lot of inexpensive code readers and never seen one that would not reset all the codes AND the history. The problem with inspections is that the ECM will also record that the codes have been erased. Or, more likely, people try to erase the codes and then drive to the inspection but as soon as they start the engine, the issue is still present and starts setting history prior to getting enough cycles to illuminate the CEL. They think because there is no CEL they are good but the system is just setting up a history again before illuminating the CEL.
10-15-2017, 06:58 AM
#51
Le Mans Master
10-15-2017, 09:19 AM
#52
Le Mans Master
I think we are saying the same thing, just not the same way. For example, if a car fails the evap pressure test you can clear the code and turn off the CEL with a basic scanner, but if you then hook up a Tech II the code will still be present as a permanent code until the test successfully runs. You can do this either by completing a drive cycle or using the Tech II to run the test manually. The car will not pass inspection if the state does not allow "not run" or "not ready" monitors.
10-15-2017, 10:02 AM
#53
Drifting
"Dealership Rip Off ?"
That's a rhetorical question, right? If you have any reputable performance shop within a few hundred miles of you, I would ALWAYS take my car there first before any dealership, without question.
And the first thing I bought when I got my car is a good scan reader. They pay for themselves the first time you ever get a CEL, especially in your case where you couldn't take the car to Autozone and have them read it for free. I bet the diagnostic just to read the CEL at the dealership cost you $100-$150.
Lesson learned.
That's a rhetorical question, right? If you have any reputable performance shop within a few hundred miles of you, I would ALWAYS take my car there first before any dealership, without question.
And the first thing I bought when I got my car is a good scan reader. They pay for themselves the first time you ever get a CEL, especially in your case where you couldn't take the car to Autozone and have them read it for free. I bet the diagnostic just to read the CEL at the dealership cost you $100-$150.
Lesson learned.
10-15-2017, 10:28 AM
#54
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
HEATH KIT? I haven't heard that name since a long time ago. Isn't that Benton Harbor Mich. based originally?
More to the point, again, a wealth of knowledge gets shared on this forum. I am learning even if I don't (big admission) have a code reader, not even a Heathkit! Thanks, guys.
More to the point, again, a wealth of knowledge gets shared on this forum. I am learning even if I don't (big admission) have a code reader, not even a Heathkit! Thanks, guys.
10-15-2017, 10:47 AM
#55
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HEATH KIT? I haven't heard that name since a long time ago. Isn't that Benton Harbor Mich. based originally?
More to the point, again, a wealth of knowledge gets shared on this forum. I am learning even if I don't (big admission) have a code reader, not even a Heathkit! Thanks, guys.
More to the point, again, a wealth of knowledge gets shared on this forum. I am learning even if I don't (big admission) have a code reader, not even a Heathkit! Thanks, guys.
They had all kinds of electronic stuff that you assembled yourself, as I recall.
10-15-2017, 11:34 AM
#56
Le Mans Master
The following users liked this post:
Bruze (10-15-2017)
10-15-2017, 11:42 AM
#57
Drifting
OBD II codes are
C=current or
H=history
I use a TECH2 (real) and I can either reset any current code (turn off the CEL) or delete the history of any codes that have occurred since the last history clear. That is important as the ignition cycles since last history clear are stored in memory. These codes are in different locations depending on the code and that is the difference between a cheap engine code reader and a complete car scanner. The scan tool is updatable. I tried a couple of the cheap ELM 327 Chinese knockoff scanners but ended up tossing them in the trash.
C=current or
H=history
I use a TECH2 (real) and I can either reset any current code (turn off the CEL) or delete the history of any codes that have occurred since the last history clear. That is important as the ignition cycles since last history clear are stored in memory. These codes are in different locations depending on the code and that is the difference between a cheap engine code reader and a complete car scanner. The scan tool is updatable. I tried a couple of the cheap ELM 327 Chinese knockoff scanners but ended up tossing them in the trash.
10-15-2017, 12:12 PM
#58
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I have a cheapo scanner I had to use on the last truck I had, but have never needed my '07 Vette scanned for anything.
If (when) I do, I will come back to this thread and pick yer guys' brains as I know essentially nothing about it.
If (when) I do, I will come back to this thread and pick yer guys' brains as I know essentially nothing about it.
