Carrying a fire extinguisher unmounted in the cabin
03-12-2018, 07:07 PM
#1
Carrying a fire extinguisher unmounted in the cabin
I wanted to carry a fire extinguisher if I had a small fire (a large one can be handled by insurance
) or to help someone else at the side of the road but I did not want to drill a mount or have something that would interfere with the seat. Having a compressed gas cylinder unmounted seemed like a bad idea so I felt stuck.
Googling around I found and bought a different type of extinguisher called Element (www.elementfire.com) that is tiny, makes no mess, and never expires. Instead of mounting it I was able to fit it in my glove box. Really cool and the first mod on my car.
After getting the first one and doing a bit of research on the tech I bought a few more for my other toys. Just thought I'd share with the group.
) or to help someone else at the side of the road but I did not want to drill a mount or have something that would interfere with the seat. Having a compressed gas cylinder unmounted seemed like a bad idea so I felt stuck. Googling around I found and bought a different type of extinguisher called Element (www.elementfire.com) that is tiny, makes no mess, and never expires. Instead of mounting it I was able to fit it in my glove box. Really cool and the first mod on my car.
After getting the first one and doing a bit of research on the tech I bought a few more for my other toys. Just thought I'd share with the group.
The following 2 users liked this post by Nuvolari:
kliph (03-12-2018),
S.C. vette (03-13-2018)
03-12-2018, 08:00 PM
#2
Team Owner
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Looks pretty good but the vid shows a pretty small fire. Reading the other products, I'd think that for a car fire, I'd need the next model up, the Professional element. Thanks. Just saw something else about two weeks ago. If I find it, I'll do a url on this thread because then people can see which they like. I like the small, compact size of the one you highlighted. 
03-13-2018, 01:36 AM
#4
So, I’m actually a firefighter and have been for 22 years and that video was just plain misleading. That fire is literally one of the easiest fires to put out (unless you use water then look out for fireworks!!). You could’ve put the fire in the video just as quickly with a box of baking powder. There is NO residual heat in a oil pan fire so as soon as you occlude oxygen from the fire it will go out and not reignite. Car fires typically burn hot and fast enough to heat up the metal all around the engine compartment or interior and the fuel is typically spraying out into a mist creating a much more easily combustible fuel. Even after you think the flames are out you realize that it is constantly reigniting all around where you are spraying. I’ve seen car fires continue to burn after 5-6 LARGE extinguishers were used and not go out until my fire engine arrives with large amounts of water and can cool down the engine block or the seat springs or the steering column etc.
I think this is a Gee whiz idea that won’t work as well as you think AND it’s very very pricy. If you are looking for something to put out a VERY SMALL electrical fire with very little heat transfer this might do the job, but for anything else like a passenger compartment, trunk compartment or engine compartment......no way this puts it out. In fairness, none of the consumer powder extinguishers will either, so I guess buy what looks cool to you.
I think this is a Gee whiz idea that won’t work as well as you think AND it’s very very pricy. If you are looking for something to put out a VERY SMALL electrical fire with very little heat transfer this might do the job, but for anything else like a passenger compartment, trunk compartment or engine compartment......no way this puts it out. In fairness, none of the consumer powder extinguishers will either, so I guess buy what looks cool to you.
03-13-2018, 12:04 PM
#5
Fireparamed thank you for offering your insight and for sharing your experience. If I may offer my perspective as I did some research into Element and even called them before making my purchase. It's worth the call because they never made any wild claims and really know their stuff.
Regarding the video I agree that it is not a large fire but, as was explained to me, the video shows how a liquid fire (in this case in a round sided bowl) is not blown out and spread because the Element extinguisher makes no thrust. I had not thought of this before, and I am sure a trained fire fighter knows better, but regular extinguishers are under pressure and will create a big fireball if pointed at the base of a liquid fire like the gas in the video or a typical kitchen oil fire in a frying pan. I did not know this so making the call definitely taught me something useful.
Also I am under no illusions about the fire I would ever try and even attempt fighting myself. As I mentioned in my original post if a fire gets big enough my insurance company can buy me another car. Fires as quoted where fuel is spraying out in a mist, aluminum is melting, and 5-6 LARGE extinguishers won't cut it are not my bag are are best left to trained professionals (not only that but the car is toast by then) In my case I would be happy to take on a small electrical or engine bay fire before it really takes hold. In my life I have had 2 small car fires, both of which were put out fast because of having an extinguisher handy.
Personally I was quite happy about the price. Powder extinguishers are definitely cheaper but I did not want anything that would make a huge mess. At $80 it was about half the price of any clean option like C02 or Halotron. That together with no shelf-life (unlike anything else I could find), a long discharge time, and its ultra-small size, makes me happy to have it as a practical piece of safety gear that I can use to help me or someone else in an emergency.
Regarding the video I agree that it is not a large fire but, as was explained to me, the video shows how a liquid fire (in this case in a round sided bowl) is not blown out and spread because the Element extinguisher makes no thrust. I had not thought of this before, and I am sure a trained fire fighter knows better, but regular extinguishers are under pressure and will create a big fireball if pointed at the base of a liquid fire like the gas in the video or a typical kitchen oil fire in a frying pan. I did not know this so making the call definitely taught me something useful.
Also I am under no illusions about the fire I would ever try and even attempt fighting myself. As I mentioned in my original post if a fire gets big enough my insurance company can buy me another car. Fires as quoted where fuel is spraying out in a mist, aluminum is melting, and 5-6 LARGE extinguishers won't cut it are not my bag are are best left to trained professionals (not only that but the car is toast by then) In my case I would be happy to take on a small electrical or engine bay fire before it really takes hold. In my life I have had 2 small car fires, both of which were put out fast because of having an extinguisher handy.
Personally I was quite happy about the price. Powder extinguishers are definitely cheaper but I did not want anything that would make a huge mess. At $80 it was about half the price of any clean option like C02 or Halotron. That together with no shelf-life (unlike anything else I could find), a long discharge time, and its ultra-small size, makes me happy to have it as a practical piece of safety gear that I can use to help me or someone else in an emergency.
03-13-2018, 02:47 PM
#6
Pro
So, I’m actually a firefighter and have been for 22 years and that video was just plain misleading. That fire is literally one of the easiest fires to put out (unless you use water then look out for fireworks!!). You could’ve put the fire in the video just as quickly with a box of baking powder. There is NO residual heat in a oil pan fire so as soon as you occlude oxygen from the fire it will go out and not reignite. Car fires typically burn hot and fast enough to heat up the metal all around the engine compartment or interior and the fuel is typically spraying out into a mist creating a much more easily combustible fuel. Even after you think the flames are out you realize that it is constantly reigniting all around where you are spraying. I’ve seen car fires continue to burn after 5-6 LARGE extinguishers were used and not go out until my fire engine arrives with large amounts of water and can cool down the engine block or the seat springs or the steering column etc.
I think this is a Gee whiz idea that won’t work as well as you think AND it’s very very pricy. If you are looking for something to put out a VERY SMALL electrical fire with very little heat transfer this might do the job, but for anything else like a passenger compartment, trunk compartment or engine compartment......no way this puts it out. In fairness, none of the consumer powder extinguishers will either, so I guess buy what looks cool to you.
I think this is a Gee whiz idea that won’t work as well as you think AND it’s very very pricy. If you are looking for something to put out a VERY SMALL electrical fire with very little heat transfer this might do the job, but for anything else like a passenger compartment, trunk compartment or engine compartment......no way this puts it out. In fairness, none of the consumer powder extinguishers will either, so I guess buy what looks cool to you.
03-13-2018, 04:13 PM
#7
Safety Car
Just remember a 20lb extinguisher is only good for about 15-20 seconds, so one that small might be good for a very small fire, that is about it. I am guessing that thing will last about 5 sec max.
03-13-2018, 04:20 PM
#8
03-13-2018, 06:25 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2014
Location: The Lowcountry South Carolina
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Did not hesitate to buy this protection. Really impressed by the no residue, no maintenance factor, not to mention size. And thank you to the OP! I borrowed the following from their website...
ELEMENT LASTS
An E50 model will discharge for 50 seconds; almost 5X the fire fighting time offered by a standard 5lb fire bottle.
Nearly 5x the discharge time of a traditional extinguisher
Starts up FAST
Gives you more fire fighting time when every second counts
ELEMENT DISCHARGES ALMOST 5x LONGER
ELEMENT IS SMALL
Approximately 80% smaller than a typical traditional fire extinguisher and more than 10 times lighter in weight.
80% smaller & 10x lighter than a typical traditional extinguisher
Lightweight makes handling and use much easier
Compact size fits almost anywhere
ELEMENT IS 80% SMALLER & 10X LIGHTER
ELEMENT IS EASY TO USE
Unlike a traditional fire extinguisher, once started, Element's small and light size means it can be held in one hand.
One-handed operation
No thrust discharge makes maneuvering easy
Light & easy to carry to a fire
ELEMENT IS EASIER TO USE
ELEMENT IS CLEAN & SAFE
Unlike traditional dry chemical fire extinguishers that make a huge mess of corrosive dust, Element discharges a totally clean & non-toxic fire fighting gas that leaves no residue behind.
Totally clean agent leaves no mess to clean up
Non-toxic discharge will not remove breathing oxygen in confined spaces
Eco-Friendly, Child & Pet safe
ELEMENT MAKES NO MESS
ELEMENT IS MAINTENANCE FREE
Traditional extinguishers use dangerous compressed gas cylinders, mechanical levers, and gauges that need regular maintenance and inspection. By using no moving parts and a solid chemical charge, Element never needs servicing and is always ready to fight fires.
Solid construction has no moving parts to service
Element never expires (no shelf life)
Will not freeze. Works in all temperatures (-140F to +320F)
ELEMENT REQUIRES ZERO SERVICING & NEVER EXPIRES
ELEMENT LASTS
An E50 model will discharge for 50 seconds; almost 5X the fire fighting time offered by a standard 5lb fire bottle.
Nearly 5x the discharge time of a traditional extinguisher
Starts up FAST
Gives you more fire fighting time when every second counts
ELEMENT DISCHARGES ALMOST 5x LONGER
ELEMENT IS SMALL
Approximately 80% smaller than a typical traditional fire extinguisher and more than 10 times lighter in weight.
80% smaller & 10x lighter than a typical traditional extinguisher
Lightweight makes handling and use much easier
Compact size fits almost anywhere
ELEMENT IS 80% SMALLER & 10X LIGHTER
ELEMENT IS EASY TO USE
Unlike a traditional fire extinguisher, once started, Element's small and light size means it can be held in one hand.
One-handed operation
No thrust discharge makes maneuvering easy
Light & easy to carry to a fire
ELEMENT IS EASIER TO USE
ELEMENT IS CLEAN & SAFE
Unlike traditional dry chemical fire extinguishers that make a huge mess of corrosive dust, Element discharges a totally clean & non-toxic fire fighting gas that leaves no residue behind.
Totally clean agent leaves no mess to clean up
Non-toxic discharge will not remove breathing oxygen in confined spaces
Eco-Friendly, Child & Pet safe
ELEMENT MAKES NO MESS
ELEMENT IS MAINTENANCE FREE
Traditional extinguishers use dangerous compressed gas cylinders, mechanical levers, and gauges that need regular maintenance and inspection. By using no moving parts and a solid chemical charge, Element never needs servicing and is always ready to fight fires.
Solid construction has no moving parts to service
Element never expires (no shelf life)
Will not freeze. Works in all temperatures (-140F to +320F)
ELEMENT REQUIRES ZERO SERVICING & NEVER EXPIRES
03-13-2018, 07:04 PM
#10
I guess I would just be more impressed If they’d used anything other than a liquid fire in an open pan. That’s just too easy for ANY type of extinguisher to put out. (Or as I said earlier, even a box of baking soda)
Ive searched the website and google for any better videos of it being used on a more significant fire but I can’t find one. By the way, this technology has been in production for years and years. It has been refined somewhat but it used to marketed as a “propellant” extinguisher or “aerosol extinguisher”. They certainly have a niche where they can be used, but remember they are also VERY susceptible to ANY amount of wind.
Hopefully none one of us ever have to use them. I’m amazed that the OP has had 2 small fires already that he was able to put out. We don’t see many success stories with car fires in the fire service.....just a lot of sad owners with totaled cars. ��
Ive searched the website and google for any better videos of it being used on a more significant fire but I can’t find one. By the way, this technology has been in production for years and years. It has been refined somewhat but it used to marketed as a “propellant” extinguisher or “aerosol extinguisher”. They certainly have a niche where they can be used, but remember they are also VERY susceptible to ANY amount of wind.
Hopefully none one of us ever have to use them. I’m amazed that the OP has had 2 small fires already that he was able to put out. We don’t see many success stories with car fires in the fire service.....just a lot of sad owners with totaled cars. ��
03-13-2018, 07:31 PM
#11
While I have your attention please allow me to offer my admiration for the work you do in the fire services. I know it is very dangerous work and I very much appreciate the contribution that you and your peers offer to the rest of us.
03-14-2018, 04:33 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Rather disturbing it has no UL rating. Looks like this is some form of class K extinguisher.
03-14-2018, 06:27 PM
#13
I inquired about the UL certification and was told that UL will not presently certify Element not because of its performance but because its form factor does not fit within their guidelines. UL calls for a compressed gas cylinder in addition to a number of items that just don't make up the construction of an Element. In essence their 'rulebook' is out of date to this layout and Element is undergoing the very long process of having UL re-write their rules.
Having done a lot of work for Europeans what put me at ease was that Element has a TUV rating. If you know anything about TUV it is a very strict and demanding certification that is taken very seriously especially in countries like Germany and Switzerland (probably the most strict rule followers on earth).
Extinguishers aside in Germany for instance if you change the wheels on your car (or just about any part for that matter) they MUST be TUV approved. When you buy a TUV approved part you get a little certificate that you keep with your car registration. If pulled over by the police and questioned about the validity of a modification you need to be able to produce a compliance of TUV in order to continue or your vehicle will not be allowed back on the road until put into compliance.
Having done a lot of work for Europeans what put me at ease was that Element has a TUV rating. If you know anything about TUV it is a very strict and demanding certification that is taken very seriously especially in countries like Germany and Switzerland (probably the most strict rule followers on earth).
Extinguishers aside in Germany for instance if you change the wheels on your car (or just about any part for that matter) they MUST be TUV approved. When you buy a TUV approved part you get a little certificate that you keep with your car registration. If pulled over by the police and questioned about the validity of a modification you need to be able to produce a compliance of TUV in order to continue or your vehicle will not be allowed back on the road until put into compliance.
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