Tires vs. RWHP/RWTQ
08-08-2018, 09:16 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Tires vs. RWHP/RWTQ
So as the title says, what have been your guy's experiences with tires at certain HP levels?
My last few corvettes.....1 was about 450 to the wheels....the other almost 500 to the wheels.
But even with the 450hp car, getting decent traction on a set of non runflats was still an issue. Most of 2nd gear was useless until the upper rpms when it would finally grab.....I think this was with some Nittos. On the 500hp car, I think I went with the Continental Extreme and they did okay....but I did also install a trans-differential brace to hold everything straight. But still....traction was a joke although I did have a different gear in that one.
Currently just started some small modding after leaving my C6 stock for awhile to enjoy it that way. Right now I'm around 402/407 to the rear.
I'm running a Firestone Wide Oval.....but even a slight "romp" while rolling in 2nd does not hold. I'm sure having a base car with a limit on how much tire you can fit back there holds you back.
So what have you guys had luck with in a street tire and about how far could you take your builds? 425hp, 440,.....you get the point.
All my sports car builds as I look back on them really were taken too far ......to a point to where the car wasn't as fun to drive anymore. Maybe I'm just addicted to the "build aspect" of it.
My last few corvettes.....1 was about 450 to the wheels....the other almost 500 to the wheels.
But even with the 450hp car, getting decent traction on a set of non runflats was still an issue. Most of 2nd gear was useless until the upper rpms when it would finally grab.....I think this was with some Nittos. On the 500hp car, I think I went with the Continental Extreme and they did okay....but I did also install a trans-differential brace to hold everything straight. But still....traction was a joke although I did have a different gear in that one.
Currently just started some small modding after leaving my C6 stock for awhile to enjoy it that way. Right now I'm around 402/407 to the rear.
I'm running a Firestone Wide Oval.....but even a slight "romp" while rolling in 2nd does not hold. I'm sure having a base car with a limit on how much tire you can fit back there holds you back.
So what have you guys had luck with in a street tire and about how far could you take your builds? 425hp, 440,.....you get the point.
All my sports car builds as I look back on them really were taken too far ......to a point to where the car wasn't as fun to drive anymore. Maybe I'm just addicted to the "build aspect" of it.
08-08-2018, 09:25 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
i've had decent experience with Nitto Invos at 540hp... granted you put your foot into any street tire at that power level & you'll spin them.
next set will be NT-01s, though.
next set will be NT-01s, though.
08-09-2018, 07:42 AM
#5
Race Director
08-09-2018, 08:11 AM
#7
Race Director
08-09-2018, 08:21 AM
#8
How to put this nicely.
The C6 is a sports car, not a muscle car, so regarding tires, I will run tires on the C6 for handling, not for straight line acceleration isntead.
Hence tires for straight line grip need soft side walls to allow the tires to flex to maintain grip on acceleration,
While soft side wall tires end up way over flexing during cornering isntead.
If your looking for the best of both worlds for street use on a vet, then would be something like the R888R tires.
As for the R888r tires for road course work, not a fan of then for a class legal tread wear tires, since the scalping on R888R is pretty deep to begin with. Hence the Super cups are a better class legal tread wear tire for road coarse work, since you burn through the shallow scalloping on them, to end up with a full slick with plenty of rubber left isntead. Hence on the R888r's, but the time you burn the tire down to the bottom of the scalloping, the tire is pretty much cooked with no rubber left instead.
As for a less expensive tire that the two above, then would be the Kumho XS tires that went out of production a few years ago. Hence tire rubber gets hard in about 5 years, so can still find XS tires only a few years old with the rubber still soft on them. Also to note, the XS tires are claimed to have a tread wear rating of 180, but much much lower than this and why there where band from being class legal tread wear tires.
One last thing and since the rubber on tires gets hard in about 5 year, don't worry about tread wear too much, since it will be the age of the tire most of the time the reason that the Vet needs new tires. Hence will be lucky to get 10K thread wear out of the R888r's, but most drive the vet less than 10K in 5 years to start with.
To add here, I run R7's for high speed road course work, and can still break the tires with the use of the gas pedal. The reason behind this/needing the rear tires to break loose, there are times that I need to have the rear tires break loose via the gas pedal to get a better line instead.
So again, sports car, verse muscle car and if you own a C6 and only using it as a muscle car, you really bought the wrong car in the first place.
The C6 is a sports car, not a muscle car, so regarding tires, I will run tires on the C6 for handling, not for straight line acceleration isntead.
Hence tires for straight line grip need soft side walls to allow the tires to flex to maintain grip on acceleration,
While soft side wall tires end up way over flexing during cornering isntead.
If your looking for the best of both worlds for street use on a vet, then would be something like the R888R tires.
As for the R888r tires for road course work, not a fan of then for a class legal tread wear tires, since the scalping on R888R is pretty deep to begin with. Hence the Super cups are a better class legal tread wear tire for road coarse work, since you burn through the shallow scalloping on them, to end up with a full slick with plenty of rubber left isntead. Hence on the R888r's, but the time you burn the tire down to the bottom of the scalloping, the tire is pretty much cooked with no rubber left instead.
As for a less expensive tire that the two above, then would be the Kumho XS tires that went out of production a few years ago. Hence tire rubber gets hard in about 5 years, so can still find XS tires only a few years old with the rubber still soft on them. Also to note, the XS tires are claimed to have a tread wear rating of 180, but much much lower than this and why there where band from being class legal tread wear tires.
One last thing and since the rubber on tires gets hard in about 5 year, don't worry about tread wear too much, since it will be the age of the tire most of the time the reason that the Vet needs new tires. Hence will be lucky to get 10K thread wear out of the R888r's, but most drive the vet less than 10K in 5 years to start with.
To add here, I run R7's for high speed road course work, and can still break the tires with the use of the gas pedal. The reason behind this/needing the rear tires to break loose, there are times that I need to have the rear tires break loose via the gas pedal to get a better line instead.
So again, sports car, verse muscle car and if you own a C6 and only using it as a muscle car, you really bought the wrong car in the first place.
08-09-2018, 09:51 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
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St. Jude Donor '15
You'll be disappointed with NT01 if you expect to hook. They are road course tires and need to be warm before they start to perform well. No amount of street use will warm them up enough before they start to be useful. Get some NT05R drag radials for the rears instead.
08-09-2018, 10:17 AM
#10
Race Director
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i was thinking king the same thing.
I had had a SC c6 making 540rw and had nothing but wheel spin past the 1000 ft mark. In a coupe with toyo DR’s
When it finally would stick trap was 129.52. So it was a mid 10 car. Just had to get it to hook.
Now i I have a 440rw on a GS and with continentals street tires. The car spins for a very little but when it hooks it hooks.
And with small spins in 2-3rd.
So so for him to say no spin at any speed is crazy lol.
08-09-2018, 10:34 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
You'll be disappointed with NT01 if you expect to hook. They are road course tires and need to be warm before they start to perform well. No amount of street use will warm them up enough before they start to be useful. Get some NT05R drag radials for the rears instead.
08-09-2018, 11:03 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
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St. Jude Donor '15
I have NT01's that I use for track days regularly. I sometimes don't swap the wheels back to street tires for a few days. Yes, I've tried to hook on the street and it didn't work out well for me. I'm only at 458R WHP.
I just think it's a good idea to have a set of tires for each purpose. One for street, one for road course, and a set of rear drags. Trying to find a multi purpose tire is just compromising. People do it all the time, it just won't deliver best results.
I just think it's a good idea to have a set of tires for each purpose. One for street, one for road course, and a set of rear drags. Trying to find a multi purpose tire is just compromising. People do it all the time, it just won't deliver best results.
08-09-2018, 11:27 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
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St. Jude Donor '15
The current set i have is stock sizes for a base model. 285/35/19. They have about 8 track days on them, nearing end of life.
I have some new wheels ready to go when these wear out. 18" Nurburgring with 305/35/18 in the back.
I have some new wheels ready to go when these wear out. 18" Nurburgring with 305/35/18 in the back.
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BigMonkey73 (08-09-2018)
08-09-2018, 01:11 PM
#17
Pro
Thread Starter
BigMonkey73 - Friend runs Interlagos and 305 rear setup and loves it. TSW does make some light wheels for the price too.
OP- Your answer will depend on what your looking for most? Straight line traction, lateral/handling , comfort, weather conditions, life of tires. AS Bigmonkey73 said, there is no tire set for all and you will have to compromise some for others.
Do not take this exactly, just throwing it out there quickly
1= Better straight - Odd handling
2= Better handling - Decent straight
3= OK straight and OK handling
1--ET street SS tires- Great for stop and go, stop light to stop light acceleration fun. These hook well but i feel they take that top notch handling and make the rear of the car feel softer and floats at higher speeds
2--R888R or NT01 - R compound , great overall tire. More lateral/handling but will give decent straight line grip. They wear fast and horrible in colder weather. NT01 tires when worn some, are just horrible in rain so drive easy- Set Throttle controller to high economy if possible, lol
3--Ventus R-S4 or RE-71r OR RE-11 . Good 200 type tires that will give a decent all around street manner performance.
I see many , many vettes run Super Sport tires so they must be a good all weather tire.
OP- Your answer will depend on what your looking for most? Straight line traction, lateral/handling , comfort, weather conditions, life of tires. AS Bigmonkey73 said, there is no tire set for all and you will have to compromise some for others.
Do not take this exactly, just throwing it out there quickly
1= Better straight - Odd handling
2= Better handling - Decent straight
3= OK straight and OK handling
1--ET street SS tires- Great for stop and go, stop light to stop light acceleration fun. These hook well but i feel they take that top notch handling and make the rear of the car feel softer and floats at higher speeds
2--R888R or NT01 - R compound , great overall tire. More lateral/handling but will give decent straight line grip. They wear fast and horrible in colder weather. NT01 tires when worn some, are just horrible in rain so drive easy- Set Throttle controller to high economy if possible, lol
3--Ventus R-S4 or RE-71r OR RE-11 . Good 200 type tires that will give a decent all around street manner performance.
I see many , many vettes run Super Sport tires so they must be a good all weather tire.
I appreciate all the answers and know most of what you are saying. I'm not into road tracks....gave that up long ago when I married and sold my bike.
I guess it's just me thinking out loud. What is the usable limit you can put down with still getting the overall driving experience of what these cars are capable of.
I know a C6Z is about the limit with a good soft street tire...and most I've seen put down around 440 stock. But they have a lot more rubber to put down.
As I mentioned, just headers and a ported FAST put me slightly over 400 in HP and TQ. My current tires do fair, but I think any of the few mentioned above would be a big improvement and traction shouldn't be that big of an issue.
But I'm honestly thinking that 400 number to the rear is about as far as you might take it. My 450hp C5 did okay, but traction was still a concern if you really stepped into it.
Just curious what others experienced. At least if I stay here, I don't have to worry about valvetrain noise or spring swaps every 30,000 miles.
Thanks for all the replies.
08-09-2018, 01:43 PM
#18
Advanced
i was thinking king the same thing.
I had had a SC c6 making 540rw and had nothing but wheel spin past the 1000 ft mark. In a coupe with toyo DR’s
When it finally would stick trap was 129.52. So it was a mid 10 car. Just had to get it to hook.
Now i I have a 440rw on a GS and with continentals street tires. The car spins for a very little but when it hooks it hooks.
And with small spins in 2-3rd.
So so for him to say no spin at any speed is crazy lol.
its an N/A high compression ls3 H/C/I and methanol injection. Never have traction issues in any gear. My other set of wheels with Nitto Invos yes there are traction issues. If you want a video I can make one. Given I’m not launching it, but rolling start in any gear doesn’t cause any problems. The Toyo rep I spoke to advised me on the tq’s I’m running 315/35/18 Toyo tq drag radials. Custom valves shocks and z51 package car.
Last edited by Bexe; 08-09-2018 at 01:47 PM.
08-09-2018, 02:01 PM
#19
Race Director
its an N/A high compression ls3 H/C/I and methanol injection. Never have traction issues in any gear. My other set of wheels with Nitto Invos yes there are traction issues. If you want a video I can make one. Given I’m not launching it, but rolling start in any gear doesn’t cause any problems. The Toyo rep I spoke to advised me on the tq’s I’m running 315/35/18 Toyo tq drag radials. Custom valves shocks and z51 package car.
