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reliability and fancy features

 
Old 11-09-2004, 10:45 PM
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Sandy S
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Default reliability and fancy features

This article makes a point that the European vehicle reliability is down and had two comments that I could be interesting to some MN6 C6 owners. Others will throw stones at me.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...b01-328882.htm

Quote: “automakers fared worst in the survey because of glitches with electrical and power systems. "Mercedes, BMW and Jaguar tend to come out with the latest features more so than other manufacturers do," while Japanese automakers tend to keep their cars and processes more simple,

Quote: “Sometimes it's the smaller aspects that become very annoying, like the cup holder lid that keeps on dropping off. It's not something that's going to stop you in the street driving along, but it's something that's really annoying that you use every day. It's that attention to detail that the domestics are missing."

It makes me think about the compromises they made for keyless start – MN6 must be in reverse to prevent battery drain and you must push a button for memory seat position and you must have the parking brake on when you do so. Also do not lift the brake after moving or you have strange sound system problems.

I would rather just have a stupid key than have all this for a feature that is of little value to me. They could have made it an option and let people decide what they wanted. I am sure it makes lots of sense with an automatic transmission.

This is a major reason for not buying a C6 already since I know it is going to annoy me every time I get in to drive it. (btw: I have seen nice ones in stock although the wife may make me sell one of my other 2 because of lack of space to store them all).

The other reason is all this arguing about pop-ups or not, flash or wave or not, and other such makes me want to just go get a Porsche. ;-)

Sorry but I just had to complain some... GM are you listening? How about some changes in time for aC6 Z06??? I already what I would put on my JD Powers survey.
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Old 11-09-2004, 11:20 PM
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We all do what we think we gotta do. Since my C6 is a daily driver and I'm retired, it's used to run to WAL-MART, run to WALGREENS, take things to my mother who lives in assisted living, etc. To me, the minor inconvenience of leaving the C6 in reverse is no big deal, especially since I have to back out of my carport after I start it up.

In the process of all my carrying things in and out, I only have to get out my house key while carrying in my packages, and don't have to put away the car key. Don't have to get out my car key when approaching the car with packages.

If GM made 2 C6s, one with keyless start and one without, both would probably cost more, not just one of them.
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Old 11-09-2004, 11:25 PM
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The keyless feature is awesome !


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Old 11-09-2004, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Z-Rated
The keyless feature is awesome !


The only thing annoying about the keyless is driving other vehicles that have old fashion keys.
As for the rest of it, I smell Z06 sour grapes. Get used to it, computers and gadgets are here to stay. All new engines rely heavily on just the electronics being complained about and they are at least twice as reliable as points, condenser, and carbs. Take the NAV for instance, 7 years ago it was almost impossible to buy a car in Japan that didn't have a NAV. We are just now moving into the 21st century. They are so much more into gizmos than we are. This country doesn't have anything like a place in Tokyo like Ueno. Gizmo city.
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Old 11-10-2004, 02:03 AM
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I love the keyless system - and I do not find it annoying at all. I LOVE never having to take my keys out of my pocket as I'm out doing stuff.

Reverse? Who cares - you have to park it in some gear anyway.. why not reverse.

Emergency brake? I've been driving manuals since I was 17.. ALWAYS use the parking brake anyway

push-button for seat memory - not really annoying, took me about 2 times to get used to it. If you have an automatic, it does not require the button push.

And I have no idea what you're talking about with the 'lift the brake after moving' thing.. I've had no such issue.
"-)
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Old 11-10-2004, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Z-Rated
The keyless feature is awesome !


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Old 11-10-2004, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by biggator6
push-button for seat memory - not really annoying, took me about 2 times to get used to it. If you have an automatic, it does not require the button push.
I am a little confused here. Doesn't the seat stay in the last position or do you have to push the memory button every time you get in the car?

Alan
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Old 11-10-2004, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by TedG
...I smell Z06 sour grapes.
Why is it if someone dislikes even one aspect of the C6, it has to be sour grapes? And Z06 sour grapes? Please...

The C6 is not perfect, nor was the C5, nor the C4.....

All are Vettes. All are great.
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Old 11-10-2004, 07:16 AM
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Default Huh?

Excuse me, but this is crazy. I've had manual tranny cars since I was 16 and I'm 57 now. I have always parked my cars in reverse, AND set the parking brake. I don't want my car rolling down hill, or some other mishap due to my not adequately securing the vehicle before I walk away from it.....

Sorry...
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Old 11-10-2004, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Sandy S
This article makes a point that the European vehicle reliability is down and had two comments that I could be interesting to some MN6 C6 owners. Others will throw stones at me.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...b01-328882.htm

Quote: “automakers fared worst in the survey because of glitches with electrical and power systems. "Mercedes, BMW and Jaguar tend to come out with the latest features more so than other manufacturers do," while Japanese automakers tend to keep their cars and processes more simple,

Quote: “Sometimes it's the smaller aspects that become very annoying, like the cup holder lid that keeps on dropping off. It's not something that's going to stop you in the street driving along, but it's something that's really annoying that you use every day. It's that attention to detail that the domestics are missing."
I don't buy it. The Japanese brands tend to come out with new features just as quickly as the Germans. If anything, the Germans are behind - for example, Mercedes held on to CD-based nav systems while the Japanese were putting in DVD-based nav systems into their cars.....

The new Acura RL has keyless start, real-time traffic integrated into the nav system, XM radio, in-dash CD changer, four wheel drive, a noise cancellation system, heated seats, a version of an active handling system, and so on, and I will bet that it will be far more reliable than the German makes. My wife drives an Acura TL Type S w/ nav with over 50k miles and nothing has ever broken - and it's loaded with features that the C6 has, but weren't available on the C5, like in-dash CD changer, nav system, heated seats, etc. I'm sure a lot of Honda/Toyota/Acura/Lexus owners could say the same about the reliability of their cars.

The German brands are less reliable than Japanese brands, but there is some reason for this other than "having more features."

Interestingly enough, some of the articles I have read lately suggest that the American brands have caught and passed the Germans in quality. This is good news!
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jazzlove
Excuse me, but this is crazy. I've had manual tranny cars since I was 16 and I'm 57 now. I have always parked my cars in reverse, AND set the parking brake. I don't want my car rolling down hill, or some other mishap due to my not adequately securing the vehicle before I walk away from it.....

Sorry...
Same here. I haven't found anything on the C6 that has been annoying or difficult to use in the two weeks I've owned this fine car. It took me all of about 24 hours to get used to the car...much less time than most other new cars I've owned. The C6 may not be perfect...no car is...but, IMHO, it's the closest GM has ever come to reaching that unattainable goal.

Stan
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:00 AM
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jazzlove, right on !!! Reverse and Parking Brake plus no habit to break!
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Sandy S
I would rather just have a stupid key than have all this for a feature that is of little value to me. They could have made it an option and let people decide what they wanted. I am sure it makes lots of sense with an automatic transmission.
It makes a lot of sense with any transmission. When the only real ignition security is a key or a key with a resistor pellet, hotwiring to steal the car is easy. When the car's computer has to do an electronic handshake with a portable chip, on the other hand, with rolling codes--hotwiring just became a lot harder (when properly designed.)
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Old 11-10-2004, 09:04 AM
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Sandy S
I agree with you. I just joined this board a few weeks ago and have spent the last few weeks researching the issues reported by owners. I don't think its asking too much to have the features in working order especially when you spent $50k.

I would actually like to see a stripped down base model w/ out all the electronic bells and whistles. Now that I think about it you should be able to order a car with any features you want ala cart (hint, hint, Mr. Hill)

Jeff
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Old 11-10-2004, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by c2tcardin
Now that I think about it you should be able to order a car with any features you want ala cart (hint, hint, Mr. Hill)
Which adds significant costs to all produced vehicles. In manufacturing, simplicity and parts-sharing are your friends. Option packages save money. Having only one ignition system also saves money.

Even $100,000+ exotics don't let you get any option exactly how you want it.

Caveat: Enough money will buy almost anything. But that's going to extremes.
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Old 11-10-2004, 09:47 AM
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Old 11-10-2004, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggerTwin
I am a little confused here. Doesn't the seat stay in the last position or do you have to push the memory button every time you get in the car?

Alan
The C6 has 2 memory buttons for two different drivers. One memory button moves the seat, mirrors, and steering wheel to driving position. The other memory button moves the seat & steering wheel to easy exit position.

If you don't program an easy exit setting, the seat and steering wheel never move.

You only have to push the driving position memory button if you used the easy exit memory button.
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Old 11-10-2004, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Z-Rated
The keyless feature is awesome !


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Old 11-10-2004, 10:42 AM
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In the latest surveys, VW came out by far the worst. It's a cheap (and I mean cheap!) car with few "bells and whistles," but it's German junk. Because of their high costs and outrageous target profit margins (think Porsche, where the difference between their high cost and price is the highest in the world), they can't make a competitively priced car. In other words, German cars (especially Porsches) have the worst value for the money of any you can buy.
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Old 11-10-2004, 10:57 AM
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I couldn't agree with the author, of this thread, more. The complexity of memory, keyless and tranny idiosynchrosies is a bother, I'd rather live without. Now, this is coming from a former C5-automatic owner. The memory was MUCH easier to use in that car. I need the memory because of my bad back. The keyless thing is cute, but I still have to carry the fob with me. With the C5, I was able to leave the key in the car (in my home or office garage). Another inconvenience, with the C6. I can't tell you how many times I tried getting out of my C6, with the tranny in neutral! (I have no problem with the hand brake)
One other comment:
The opinions on this forum can easily be different than the ones gleaned general public. Forum members are much more technically oriented, and dig these newer technolgies. A few years ago, we did a C5 interior sound level poll, and 75% of forum voters thought the sound level was OK! (I sure didn't) Apparently, the general public didn't think so either, and one of the biggest pushes, in the developement of the C6, was lower interior sound levels.(thank you!)

Last edited by Hoonose; 11-10-2004 at 11:09 AM.
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