[Z06] My impressions so far...
10-01-2005, 01:48 AM
#42
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '06
INCREDIBLE feedback and impressions. Congrats your a LUCK MAN and enjoy that BAD BOY IN GOOD HEALTH!!!!!!!!!! 
ps-I LOVE THE PULLING of the fuse option. No reason to run out and spend extra money for those of us who LOVE TO RUN STRAIGHT PIPE!!
ps-I LOVE THE PULLING of the fuse option. No reason to run out and spend extra money for those of us who LOVE TO RUN STRAIGHT PIPE!!
10-01-2005, 02:29 AM
#43
Drifting
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Originally Posted by Ransom 1
I cannot say that I feel a geat difference in stopping power between 04 and 06. Maybe there will be less fade at the track with the 06, but my 04 performs brilliantly at shedding speed at the last braking marker (or beyond) on Gingermans back straight at 100plus mph. Granted, I added Doug Rippie ducts for enhanced cooling but the biggest problem for me was boiling the DOT3 stock brake fluid, which I think will be a problem on the new Z as well. After adding ATE Superblue and the ducts, fade is not a problem for me, even with stock pads. And believe me when your heading toward a right angle turn and a guardrail at 103mph you want your brakes to work and work DAMN WELL! To me the power of the 04Z's stock brakes are breathtaking---literally. I have panic stopped numerous times with them and the G force is significant. The first time this happened I was traveling with my wife at about 65mph and a squirrel ran out in front of us, I jammed on the brakes and the next thing I know we were at a dead stop with room left over(for the squirrel) and I look at my wife and she's moaning "My God! I almost passed out." And how does her loving husband respond? Does he say, "Are you OK?" No. His enthusiam over his new Z overflows into:"Holy Crap! Isn't this thing incredible?!" 
:o 
Anyhow, I love both Z's. And of course my wife.
---Damian
:o Anyhow, I love both Z's. And of course my wife.
---Damian
We seem to be getting waaay too many defensive C5Z posts! It is a great car, but forturnately for us all, progress marches forward. No amount of whinning will make the C5Z a better car than a C6Z--wouldn't you be upset if the C6Z was not better?
Last edited by Mako7; 10-01-2005 at 10:56 AM.
10-01-2005, 03:31 AM
#44
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Ransom 1
I cannot say that I feel a geat difference in stopping power between 04 and 06. Maybe there will be less fade at the track with the 06, but my 04 performs brilliantly at shedding speed at the last braking marker (or beyond) on Gingermans back straight at 100plus mph. Granted, I added Doug Rippie ducts for enhanced cooling but the biggest problem for me was boiling the DOT3 stock brake fluid, which I think will be a problem on the new Z as well. After adding ATE Superblue and the ducts, fade is not a problem for me, even with stock pads. And believe me when your heading toward a right angle turn and a guardrail at 103mph you want your brakes to work and work DAMN WELL! To me the power of the 04Z's stock brakes are breathtaking---literally. I have panic stopped numerous times with them and the G force is significant. The first time this happened I was traveling with my wife at about 65mph and a squirrel ran out in front of us, I jammed on the brakes and the next thing I know we were at a dead stop with room left over(for the squirrel) and I look at my wife and she's moaning "My God! I almost passed out." And how does her loving husband respond? Does he say, "Are you OK?" No. His enthusiam over his new Z overflows into:"Holy Crap! Isn't this thing incredible?!" :o
Anyhow, I love both Z's. And of course my wife.
---Damian
:o Anyhow, I love both Z's. And of course my wife.
---Damian
I agree, I don't feel a great difference in stopping power. In fact I dare say that the clueless joe blow might actually think that the C5 Z06's brakes have MORE stopping power than the C6 Z06's. The old car did provide more stopping power per unit of pedal pressure applied. i.e. the old car's brakes were more boosted. It took me some getting used to these brakes and the increased effort needed to stop.. but they do have damn good stopping power, just like the old ones. It only took one solid Ka-band blip on my trusty Valentine 1 to find that out last night....
That having been said, you can't really compare brakes through stopping power on an initial road test. If that was all it took, the C5 Z06's brakes would be the victors of the test as they have more bite. But let me drive both cars around Motorsport Ranch and then we'll see which ones fade... (i just hope these supid drilled rotors survive...)
Andi
10-01-2005, 03:56 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by Mako7
Disagree 100% with you on the C5Z's stock brakes. They were uequivocally NOT up to HPDE roadcourse work. I tried everthing many times (pads, rotors, lines, fluid, etc.) and nothing worked. Went with $8k Brembos on my C5R Block 427 C5Z. Night and day difference. I hope the C6Z brakes are like the Brembos.
10-01-2005, 07:46 AM
#48
Burning Brakes
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Clutch Feel
Originally Posted by Tom Steele
You sure there wasn't something wrong with your C5 Z06? 
That bothers me. Clutch was my #1 complaint about my C6 Z51. It was like they took ALL THE FEEL out of it so that the cruisers could enjoy the ease of the pedal at the expense of those who knew how to feel a clutch engaging. I never got used to the clutch feel while I owned my C6 and truly thought/hoped there might be something wrong with that particular car. If the C6 Z06 has the same clutch feel as my C6 Z51 had, it is a giant leap backwards.
I would describe it as NOTHING LIKE a race clutch and EVERYTHING LIKE a clutch in which the feel was taken out of the system. It isn't about clamping either, you can increase clamping pressure and still have an easy clutch pedal, but you lose feel by over leveraging the pedal.
That bothers me. Clutch was my #1 complaint about my C6 Z51. It was like they took ALL THE FEEL out of it so that the cruisers could enjoy the ease of the pedal at the expense of those who knew how to feel a clutch engaging. I never got used to the clutch feel while I owned my C6 and truly thought/hoped there might be something wrong with that particular car. If the C6 Z06 has the same clutch feel as my C6 Z51 had, it is a giant leap backwards.
I would describe it as NOTHING LIKE a race clutch and EVERYTHING LIKE a clutch in which the feel was taken out of the system. It isn't about clamping either, you can increase clamping pressure and still have an easy clutch pedal, but you lose feel by over leveraging the pedal.
I don't like the clutch in my C6 at all and was hoping the Z06 would be better. Doesn't sound that way. The C5Z06 (which I've driven) and the Cadillac CTS-V (which I own) have much better clutch feel than the C6. I know the C6 clutch can't be adjusted and I assume it's the same for the Z06. I may have to go after-market on this one. (I guess I'll be seeing Dave at Cartek again.)
10-01-2005, 08:42 AM
#49
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Mako7
We seem to be getting waaay too many defensive C5Z posts!
But an awful lot of the posts have started reading more like this:
"The old Z06 SUCKED and this one is great."
I'm not being defensive of the Z06 when I counter that trend, I'm being defensive for REALITY.
It is a great car, but forturnately for us all, progress marches forward. No amount of whinning will make the C5Z a better car than a C6Z--wouldn't you be upset if the C6Z was not better?
But history didn't change and the C5 Z06 didn't suddenly suck because they made the C6 Z06. The C5 Z06 has without a doubt been eclipsed by a newer, better and more expensive version of itself. But it is still an outstanding car and none of the praise that was given to it in the past has suddenly become invalid.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, there will still be many track events and races that the C5 Z06 will be the next rung on the competition ladder to the C6 Z06.
Last edited by Tom Steele; 10-01-2005 at 10:26 AM.
10-01-2005, 09:01 AM
#50
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Mako 1 quote:"We seem to be getting waaay too many defensive C5Z posts! It is a great car, but forturnately for us all, progress marches forward. No amount of whinning will make the C5Z a better car than a C6Z--wouldn't you be upset if the C6Z was not better?"
I fail to see where any whining is going on in Toms, Andi's or my posts, we are all just relaying our experiences concerning the positive aspects of our C5Zs--of which there are many,e.g, brakes, clutch feel, worldclass acceleration, and Beautiful flowing curves. etc. I will be the first to admit, no, ethusiastically proclaim (check my recent "#375 is home" thread)that the new Z is a better overall package and your right-- it damn well better be for what I paid for it or upset would be an understatement of my response. That said, I still will continue to have very strong good feelings about my Z16 and as Tom Steele said somewhere " the C5Z ...might be the next closet thing to the new Z06 in many a competition." I will have both on the track shortly and we shall see.
---Damian
I fail to see where any whining is going on in Toms, Andi's or my posts, we are all just relaying our experiences concerning the positive aspects of our C5Zs--of which there are many,e.g, brakes, clutch feel, worldclass acceleration, and Beautiful flowing curves. etc. I will be the first to admit, no, ethusiastically proclaim (check my recent "#375 is home" thread)that the new Z is a better overall package and your right-- it damn well better be for what I paid for it or upset would be an understatement of my response. That said, I still will continue to have very strong good feelings about my Z16 and as Tom Steele said somewhere " the C5Z ...might be the next closet thing to the new Z06 in many a competition." I will have both on the track shortly and we shall see.
---Damian
10-01-2005, 10:54 AM
#52
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by E55er
sounds like someone needs to rig a switch to that "spare" fuse so it can be opened and closed at the push of a button.
It's just too boomy and bassy at low revs and at idle with the fuse out. Stuff starts rattling from the bass...
10-02-2005, 12:20 AM
#54
Burning Brakes
The first time this happened I was traveling with my wife at about 65mph and a squirrel ran out in front of us, I jammed on the brakes and the next thing I know we were at a dead stop with room left over(for the squirrel) and I look at my wife and she's moaning "My God! I almost passed out." And how does her loving husband respond? Does he say, "Are you OK?" No. His enthusiam over his new Z overflows into:"Holy Crap! Isn't this thing incredible?!"
Now THAT'S funny, I don't care who you are.
Have fun and be safe~!!
Now THAT'S funny, I don't care who you are.
Have fun and be safe~!!
10-02-2005, 02:25 AM
#56
Team Owner
Originally Posted by rbartick
While I can believe that the C6 handles better than the C5, the way better and leaps and bounds comments are a bit hard to believe especially after only owning the car for 20 hours. I guess I will have to drive one and see for myself.
In any event, your car is awesome. Enjoy, I am jealous.
In any event, your car is awesome. Enjoy, I am jealous.
Exactly - the C5 Z06 handles incredibly well - so good that VERY few people could ever find the limit. I doubt you could ascertain the miniscule difference between the two without actually driving both back to back on a track. Either way, the car is a beast! Congrats.
10-02-2005, 09:08 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by Andi
So, now that I've had my new Z06 for ~20 hours I figured I'd post some driving impressions of the car.
First, the interior. The seats are first class IMHO. FINALLY a vette with seats that are up to par. The leather feels nice, the bolsters on the sides actually hold you, and they seats are damn comfortable. Now, the rest of the interior is okay, a lot better than the C5 in some ways and a bit worse in others. What's better? Well the materials, like for example the top of the dash, is actually a nice soft-touch grainy vinyl, a nice upgrade over the C5's hard touch vinyl/plastic whatever it was. I hate the silver painted wannabe-metal plastic on the center console. But I guess I'll live with it. I also hate how my passengers can never get out of the car when I want to drop them off, because the doors auto lock at X mph and don't auto unlock when you pull the handbrake. Maybe there's a window valet for the C6 to fix that like there was for the C5; hopefully. Or maybe they should just make the car listen to the damn electronic door handles on the inside and assume if you're trying to get out maybe you actually WANT to get out?! Sorry for ranting. Other ****les: the climate control on bi-level directs too much air to the feet and too little to the face, so even though I loved bi-level on the C5 I find myself using just the face vents on the C6.. and I also hate the way the radio makes you have individual bass/treble presets for each source/preset. That's gonna take me half an hour to program. Nice. I also really miss the partition I had in my C5 Z06, so I could throw my digital camera and CD's behind me and they didn't fly all the way to the back every time I accelerated.
OK, now that the interior's out of the way, let's get to the good stuff. (1) Brakes.. Since I only have 85 miles on the car, I didn't want to push the non-bedded-in brake pads too hard and test the ABS calibration / etc yet... but I can tell you, the one or two times I did hit the brakes rather hard, the cars stopped damn well. That having been said, the brakes are NOT grabby. At first I was disappointed and thought the brakes felt like they needed too much effort.. that's improved a bit sine the first drive, and I also realized it's a good thing they aren't so overboosted as on most cars so you can modulate better.
Handling? It's incredible. Way better than my C5 Z06, even with the 2004 Z06 "Nurburbring" shocks. The ride is a bit stiffer than my old car, but the handling is leaps and bounds better. High speed bumps that would send my C5 Z06 yawing/bumpsteering, or maybe catching air and bouncing.... this car takes in stride without even getting its line upset. It actually soaks up bumps rather than launching off of them -- the shock valving on this car is incredible. The only other car I've ever driven that felt this good was the E39 ///M5.
Now for the best part...... that beautiful engine. There are not enough words to describe this masterpiece of a small block. When the car starts, it fires up with a mean, loud bark from the mufflers before the muffler valves have a chance to close (more on this later). Then it gets quiet. REAL quiet. This is another way the car reminds me of the E39 ///M5 -- it sounds just like one inside the car when tooling around at low revs / low throttle openings. But, get on the throttle a little bit, and it's clear this is no M5 or base C6. It takes a bit to get used to the quirky electronic throttle (it's not as smooth or direct as the C5's was, but it's still pretty good).. The power is incredible. GM increased the torque of the engine and the gearing by about the same amount, so each gear *feels* about the same as it did in the old car.. (except for 3rd, for some reason 3rd in this car feels incredible and pulls way harder than it should considering it goes to 125MPH). The difference is, although 2nd in the new Z pulls about the same as 2nd in the old Z... 2nd now is your 60-95mph racing gear, whereas on the old Z 2nd ended at 70 and the old car was in 3rd at that point. This car rockets from 60 to 95 in 2nd like nothing I've experienced.. today on the freeway I downshifted to 2nd at 65 and floored it from a roll and it actually barked the tires for a quick moment before approaching redline (95mph) within a couple seconds.. This is WITHOUT any clutch action. GM was very smart to put such tall gearing on the car -- it allows the engine's massive power and torque to be useable, rather than just leaving you sitting there spinning the tires.
One thing that just cracks me up about this car is how easy it is to make it loud, if you want. There's a fuse under the passenger side footwell labeled as a "spare" fuse, both in the owner's manual and in the fuse cover. Remove it and the exhaust flaps stay open, with no engine codes or anything. Under that mode, it is loud as hell and damn raw at low revs, and especially at 600RPM idle the entire cabin resonates. I ran like that for a few hours and switched it back.
All in all, this is the best car I've ever driven. They took the C5 Z06, fixed the bad quirks (****ty brakes including oversensitive ABS and sliding calipres, horrible bump steer suspension geometry, and questionable suspension stability and damping), added a bunch of power, let it weigh the exact same, and only screwed up a couple small things here and there, and for the price and the performance, those things REALLY don't matter.
Gotta go for a drive...
Andi
First, the interior. The seats are first class IMHO. FINALLY a vette with seats that are up to par. The leather feels nice, the bolsters on the sides actually hold you, and they seats are damn comfortable. Now, the rest of the interior is okay, a lot better than the C5 in some ways and a bit worse in others. What's better? Well the materials, like for example the top of the dash, is actually a nice soft-touch grainy vinyl, a nice upgrade over the C5's hard touch vinyl/plastic whatever it was. I hate the silver painted wannabe-metal plastic on the center console. But I guess I'll live with it. I also hate how my passengers can never get out of the car when I want to drop them off, because the doors auto lock at X mph and don't auto unlock when you pull the handbrake. Maybe there's a window valet for the C6 to fix that like there was for the C5; hopefully. Or maybe they should just make the car listen to the damn electronic door handles on the inside and assume if you're trying to get out maybe you actually WANT to get out?! Sorry for ranting. Other ****les: the climate control on bi-level directs too much air to the feet and too little to the face, so even though I loved bi-level on the C5 I find myself using just the face vents on the C6.. and I also hate the way the radio makes you have individual bass/treble presets for each source/preset. That's gonna take me half an hour to program. Nice. I also really miss the partition I had in my C5 Z06, so I could throw my digital camera and CD's behind me and they didn't fly all the way to the back every time I accelerated.
OK, now that the interior's out of the way, let's get to the good stuff. (1) Brakes.. Since I only have 85 miles on the car, I didn't want to push the non-bedded-in brake pads too hard and test the ABS calibration / etc yet... but I can tell you, the one or two times I did hit the brakes rather hard, the cars stopped damn well. That having been said, the brakes are NOT grabby. At first I was disappointed and thought the brakes felt like they needed too much effort.. that's improved a bit sine the first drive, and I also realized it's a good thing they aren't so overboosted as on most cars so you can modulate better.
Handling? It's incredible. Way better than my C5 Z06, even with the 2004 Z06 "Nurburbring" shocks. The ride is a bit stiffer than my old car, but the handling is leaps and bounds better. High speed bumps that would send my C5 Z06 yawing/bumpsteering, or maybe catching air and bouncing.... this car takes in stride without even getting its line upset. It actually soaks up bumps rather than launching off of them -- the shock valving on this car is incredible. The only other car I've ever driven that felt this good was the E39 ///M5.
Now for the best part...... that beautiful engine. There are not enough words to describe this masterpiece of a small block. When the car starts, it fires up with a mean, loud bark from the mufflers before the muffler valves have a chance to close (more on this later). Then it gets quiet. REAL quiet. This is another way the car reminds me of the E39 ///M5 -- it sounds just like one inside the car when tooling around at low revs / low throttle openings. But, get on the throttle a little bit, and it's clear this is no M5 or base C6. It takes a bit to get used to the quirky electronic throttle (it's not as smooth or direct as the C5's was, but it's still pretty good).. The power is incredible. GM increased the torque of the engine and the gearing by about the same amount, so each gear *feels* about the same as it did in the old car.. (except for 3rd, for some reason 3rd in this car feels incredible and pulls way harder than it should considering it goes to 125MPH). The difference is, although 2nd in the new Z pulls about the same as 2nd in the old Z... 2nd now is your 60-95mph racing gear, whereas on the old Z 2nd ended at 70 and the old car was in 3rd at that point. This car rockets from 60 to 95 in 2nd like nothing I've experienced.. today on the freeway I downshifted to 2nd at 65 and floored it from a roll and it actually barked the tires for a quick moment before approaching redline (95mph) within a couple seconds.. This is WITHOUT any clutch action. GM was very smart to put such tall gearing on the car -- it allows the engine's massive power and torque to be useable, rather than just leaving you sitting there spinning the tires.
One thing that just cracks me up about this car is how easy it is to make it loud, if you want. There's a fuse under the passenger side footwell labeled as a "spare" fuse, both in the owner's manual and in the fuse cover. Remove it and the exhaust flaps stay open, with no engine codes or anything. Under that mode, it is loud as hell and damn raw at low revs, and especially at 600RPM idle the entire cabin resonates. I ran like that for a few hours and switched it back.
All in all, this is the best car I've ever driven. They took the C5 Z06, fixed the bad quirks (****ty brakes including oversensitive ABS and sliding calipres, horrible bump steer suspension geometry, and questionable suspension stability and damping), added a bunch of power, let it weigh the exact same, and only screwed up a couple small things here and there, and for the price and the performance, those things REALLY don't matter.
Gotta go for a drive...
Andi
Andi,
Excellent write up!!
Did traction become more difficult with the added Torque?
10-02-2005, 11:13 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by DDSLT5
Exactly - the C5 Z06 handles incredibly well - so good that VERY few people could ever find the limit. I doubt you could ascertain the miniscule difference between the two without actually driving both back to back on a track. Either way, the car is a beast! Congrats.
Excellent point! The C5 Z has VERY high limits on the tracks---enough to scare your passenger into shocked silence except for the unrestrained thrill espressed in small laughs and occasional "OOOHHH or woohoo!" On one HPDE day I took the chief instuctor for a ride with me to give me some pointers. After several laps in my Z16 at close to its limits he was laughing out loud and saying "Yeah, woo!!". When the session ended he embraced me and said "that's a hell of a car you've got there!!!" This guy's track car? A Radical! He owns and sells them and drives them faster then I would care to try. Next week I come to the track and his new Infinti G35 is gone and a new C6 coupe is sitting there in MS--- "hey! That's my color." I exclaim. When I told him I had a new Z coming soon--his eyes lit up ..."Really? When?" He's dying to see the new Z. As for driving both back to back, that's a experience I will enjoy!! ----Damian
10-02-2005, 11:54 PM
#59
Quote:"The first time this happened I was traveling with my wife at about 65mph and a squirrel ran out in front of us, I jammed on the brakes and the next thing I know we were at a dead stop with room left over(for the squirrel) and I look at my wife and she's moaning "My God! I almost passed out." And how does her loving husband respond? Does he say, "Are you OK?" No. His enthusiam over his new Z overflows into:"Holy Crap! Isn't this thing incredible?!"
Now THAT'S funny, I don't care who you are."
I agree! Hey Damian, does your wife ride with you anymore?
Now THAT'S funny, I don't care who you are."
I agree! Hey Damian, does your wife ride with you anymore?
10-03-2005, 01:11 AM
#60
Tech Contributor
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Originally Posted by Andi
So, now that I've had my new Z06 for ~20 hours I figured I'd post some driving impressions of the car.
I also hate how my passengers can never get out of the car when I want to drop them off, because the doors auto lock at X mph and don't auto unlock when you pull the handbrake. Maybe there's a window valet for the C6 to fix that like there was for the C5; hopefully. Or maybe they should just make the car listen to the damn electronic door handles on the inside and assume if you're trying to get out maybe you actually WANT to get out?! Andi
I also hate how my passengers can never get out of the car when I want to drop them off, because the doors auto lock at X mph and don't auto unlock when you pull the handbrake. Maybe there's a window valet for the C6 to fix that like there was for the C5; hopefully. Or maybe they should just make the car listen to the damn electronic door handles on the inside and assume if you're trying to get out maybe you actually WANT to get out?! Andi
Bill
