[Z06] Toyo RA1 / Track Tire Question
02-25-2006, 12:00 PM
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Toyo RA1 / Track Tire Question
Just starting to research track tires so I can finally get back to the track.
I have already checked with CCW on the corsair / GoodYear / Sport Cup Set ups and their associated costs. After a little research It looks to be a great set up for the money and appears to work without problems from the TPMS (tire pressure monitering system) or TCS (traction control system). But I've gotta beat this to death so.....Here goes:
I used to run Toyo RA1's and Yoko AO32's on my Comptech NSX and really liked the Toyos. Toyo and Hoosier both make DOT-R tires in (F) 275/35/18 and (R) 335/30/18. according to These People The stock F-R combo has a diameter diff of 4.3% the Toyo / Hoosier set up has a net F-R diff of 1.3%...considerably different from the stock ratio. The Sport Cups BTW, have a diff of 4.7% F-R...a lot closer to stock.
On the NSX I would just run without the TCS as it was too intrusive anyways, so the tire diameter difference was not an issue. It appears that many run the ZO6 at the track with some sort of TCS engaged, therefore, I would imagine the the tire diameter relation of front to rear is more important.
Does anyone (Alan Law)
know if the Toyo/ Hoosier set up will work with the C6Z?
Thanks in advance!
I have already checked with CCW on the corsair / GoodYear / Sport Cup Set ups and their associated costs. After a little research It looks to be a great set up for the money and appears to work without problems from the TPMS (tire pressure monitering system) or TCS (traction control system). But I've gotta beat this to death so.....Here goes:
I used to run Toyo RA1's and Yoko AO32's on my Comptech NSX and really liked the Toyos. Toyo and Hoosier both make DOT-R tires in (F) 275/35/18 and (R) 335/30/18. according to These People The stock F-R combo has a diameter diff of 4.3% the Toyo / Hoosier set up has a net F-R diff of 1.3%...considerably different from the stock ratio. The Sport Cups BTW, have a diff of 4.7% F-R...a lot closer to stock.
On the NSX I would just run without the TCS as it was too intrusive anyways, so the tire diameter difference was not an issue. It appears that many run the ZO6 at the track with some sort of TCS engaged, therefore, I would imagine the the tire diameter relation of front to rear is more important.
Does anyone (Alan Law)
know if the Toyo/ Hoosier set up will work with the C6Z? Thanks in advance!
02-25-2006, 01:05 PM
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1. Actually most experienced drivers run with the AH & TC OFF on the track. I recommend running in Comp. Mode for a novice driver. This allows the AH to be active with the TC OFF. All drivers, of course, shoukd have both TC & AH ON
- on the street, always
- on the track in wet conditions
2. Your concern about running a F/R tire combination with closer OD tolerences than stock is unfounded. TC is activated IF the difference in wheel speed AND tire slippage is GREATER than 5%. Anything less than 5% is disregarded. So a tire OD difference less than the stock is OK..in fact better. I recommend running 0% tire OD on the track...this gives more room for slippage...a full 5% before the TC comes on...if you have it activated.
3. Yoyo RA-1 are NOT R tires. They are DOT approved and for what the company says is "suitable for competition". They have a;
- 8/32" tread depth (too deep)
- a UTQG rating of 100 (too hard)
- they weigh over 30 #'s each (too heavy)
They are high performance street tires suitable for the track. I would not even consider them trackable without having them shaved to 4/32" to start with.
R tires are basically slicks with a compound rating of 30 - 60
DOT track tires are slicks with a 4/32" groove and built to DOT specs with a compound rating of 35 - 45.
Khumo's DOT 710 is a 35
Hoosier's DOT A3S05 and R3S05 are 40
The A's operate at 100 to 140 degrees and are AutoX and short sprint tires
The R's operate at 170 - 220 degrees and are longer duration and need a londer warm up to be come effective.
I recommend for the C6 Z06 Hoosier
305/30x18 on 10.5x18 with +0.25" offset FRONT (25.5" OD)
335/30x18 on 12x18 with +0.25" offset REAR (25.5" OD)
- on the street, always
- on the track in wet conditions
2. Your concern about running a F/R tire combination with closer OD tolerences than stock is unfounded. TC is activated IF the difference in wheel speed AND tire slippage is GREATER than 5%. Anything less than 5% is disregarded. So a tire OD difference less than the stock is OK..in fact better. I recommend running 0% tire OD on the track...this gives more room for slippage...a full 5% before the TC comes on...if you have it activated.
3. Yoyo RA-1 are NOT R tires. They are DOT approved and for what the company says is "suitable for competition". They have a;
- 8/32" tread depth (too deep)
- a UTQG rating of 100 (too hard)
- they weigh over 30 #'s each (too heavy)
They are high performance street tires suitable for the track. I would not even consider them trackable without having them shaved to 4/32" to start with.
R tires are basically slicks with a compound rating of 30 - 60
DOT track tires are slicks with a 4/32" groove and built to DOT specs with a compound rating of 35 - 45.
Khumo's DOT 710 is a 35
Hoosier's DOT A3S05 and R3S05 are 40
The A's operate at 100 to 140 degrees and are AutoX and short sprint tires
The R's operate at 170 - 220 degrees and are longer duration and need a londer warm up to be come effective.
I recommend for the C6 Z06 Hoosier
305/30x18 on 10.5x18 with +0.25" offset FRONT (25.5" OD)
335/30x18 on 12x18 with +0.25" offset REAR (25.5" OD)
02-25-2006, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DJWorm
TC is activated IF the difference in wheel speed AND tire slippage is GREATER than 5%.
3. Yoyo RA-1 are NOT R tires. They are DOT approved and for what the company says is "suitable for competition".
- a UTQG rating of 100 (too hard)
- they weigh over 30 #'s each (too heavy)
They are high performance street tires suitable for the track. I would not even consider them trackable without having them shaved to 4/32" to start with.
R tires are basically slicks with a compound rating of 30 - 60
DOT track tires are slicks with a 4/32" groove and built to DOT specs with a compound rating of 35 - 45.
3. Yoyo RA-1 are NOT R tires. They are DOT approved and for what the company says is "suitable for competition".
- a UTQG rating of 100 (too hard)
- they weigh over 30 #'s each (too heavy)
They are high performance street tires suitable for the track. I would not even consider them trackable without having them shaved to 4/32" to start with.
R tires are basically slicks with a compound rating of 30 - 60
DOT track tires are slicks with a 4/32" groove and built to DOT specs with a compound rating of 35 - 45.
Hmmm, we must be talking about two different Toyo RA1's. What I used to run were, in fact, DOT-R tires and are actually the spec tire for many SCCA and other racing series. The Tread wear rating on my tires was 40...and they did not weigh over 30lbs each...more like 18-20lbs. I had mine delivered, heat cycled and shaved to 4/32 from Discount Tire Direct. Maybe they have changed the compound and I am not aware of it. You are correct though, they are not slicks.
Thanks for confirming the % tolerance for me. "Within 5%" is the same as the NSX And also good info on the Hoosiers, I know a bunch of guys that used to run them and everyone seemed to like them just fine.
Now, a couple more questions:
DJ, are you running the Hoosier set up you recommend with out any rubbing in front at full lock?
Does anyone else run this set up with happiness and harmony?
and...Who agrees that they will be easier to get, last a little longer and ultimately be cheeper to run than the Goodyear slicks?
02-25-2006, 11:21 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by BlkC6Z06
Just starting to research track tires so I can finally get back to the track.
I have already checked with CCW on the corsair / GoodYear / Sport Cup Set ups and their associated costs. After a little research It looks to be a great set up for the money and appears to work without problems from the TPMS (tire pressure monitering system) or TCS (traction control system). But I've gotta beat this to death so.....Here goes:
I used to run Toyo RA1's and Yoko AO32's on my Comptech NSX and really liked the Toyos. Toyo and Hoosier both make DOT-R tires in (F) 275/35/18 and (R) 335/30/18. according to These People The stock F-R combo has a diameter diff of 4.3% the Toyo / Hoosier set up has a net F-R diff of 1.3%...considerably different from the stock ratio. The Sport Cups BTW, have a diff of 4.7% F-R...a lot closer to stock.
On the NSX I would just run without the TCS as it was too intrusive anyways, so the tire diameter difference was not an issue. It appears that many run the ZO6 at the track with some sort of TCS engaged, therefore, I would imagine the the tire diameter relation of front to rear is more important.
Does anyone (Alan Law) know if the Toyo/ Hoosier set up will work with the C6Z?
Thanks in advance!
I have already checked with CCW on the corsair / GoodYear / Sport Cup Set ups and their associated costs. After a little research It looks to be a great set up for the money and appears to work without problems from the TPMS (tire pressure monitering system) or TCS (traction control system). But I've gotta beat this to death so.....Here goes:
I used to run Toyo RA1's and Yoko AO32's on my Comptech NSX and really liked the Toyos. Toyo and Hoosier both make DOT-R tires in (F) 275/35/18 and (R) 335/30/18. according to These People The stock F-R combo has a diameter diff of 4.3% the Toyo / Hoosier set up has a net F-R diff of 1.3%...considerably different from the stock ratio. The Sport Cups BTW, have a diff of 4.7% F-R...a lot closer to stock.
On the NSX I would just run without the TCS as it was too intrusive anyways, so the tire diameter difference was not an issue. It appears that many run the ZO6 at the track with some sort of TCS engaged, therefore, I would imagine the the tire diameter relation of front to rear is more important.
Does anyone (Alan Law)
know if the Toyo/ Hoosier set up will work with the C6Z? Thanks in advance!
We run 305 x 18 in front(stock Z wheel) and 335 x 18 in rear(repo C5 Z wheel)With factory shaved Toyo R1's.Works great as long as the AH is off or in Comp. mode.Front 305's will not work with a radical lowered car.
02-25-2006, 11:35 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
I'm running Nitto 555RII's, 18" all around (285 front, 305 rear). The front diameter is less than the rear diameter, but not by as much as the stock tires. TC is triggered when I am just cruising along on the freeway. The RA-1 combo that you are suggesting has a really wide rear tire with a much narrower front tire, and I wonder how that would affect handling. You might consider a wider front RA-1 size. I think that makes the front diameter larger than the rear if I recall the RA-1 specs. However, my observation is that the C6Z's TC is much more picky that the C5 TC, so you can just assume that any track combo you come up with will require running with TC turned off.
As for what mode to use at the track, you can start out in COMP mode which effectively turns off TC, leaves AH on with another algorithm for more spirited driving. I run with everything off, which is what you will probably wind doing.
Lastly, I am quite sure that a wheel with +25 offset will not clear the front brakes (the stock +40 offset fits without a lot of extra space between the spokes and the calipers).
As for what mode to use at the track, you can start out in COMP mode which effectively turns off TC, leaves AH on with another algorithm for more spirited driving. I run with everything off, which is what you will probably wind doing.
Lastly, I am quite sure that a wheel with +25 offset will not clear the front brakes (the stock +40 offset fits without a lot of extra space between the spokes and the calipers).
02-26-2006, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BlkC6Z06
Now, a couple more questions:
DJ, are you running the Hoosier set up you recommend with out any rubbing in front at full lock?
DJ, are you running the Hoosier set up you recommend with out any rubbing in front at full lock?
The Good Year G19 slicks are great tires if you get the R460 or R470 compounds. I got 4 to 5 weekends out of a set. The R370 compouns I corded in one day, two sessions. very soft tire.
Hoosiers are great tires and are relitivly afordable. However, when you start running Hoosiers or other R compounds, dont look at driving too the track. It is trailer time or have someone drive the tires/ wheels to the track in a pick up along with your jack and tools to change the wheels.
The GAC or RSO4 and RSO5s are DOT compounds:
Slight tread
and the Hoosier VRLs - Non DOT on Left and Mich PS on Right
Rember track tires are measured in Heat Cycles, not miles or tread depth. A heat cycle is each time the tire is up to temp and pressure or acuttly used on the track. Most ppl get 12-15 heat cycles out of a set of tires and that is pushing it too.
There have been guys who have used Nittos and wonder why they have no grip. Yes there was lots of tread, but the tires have been though 15-18 heat cycles. Way too much.
So on an average how many weekends can you get out of a set of track tires??? Four to 5 weekends, providing those weekends are all in a 12-18 month time frame AND the tires have not experienced a lot of trail braking thottole oversteering ( slight sliding) Softer tires leach out the natureal grip in 18-24 months.
Even street tires that are over 18 months old should not be used on the track, the rubber is too old and does not grip will, but is still fine for street use. ALso tread is for water removal not grip.
Good Luck and have fun out there.
02-26-2006, 09:39 AM
#7
Originally Posted by BlkC6Z06
Just starting to research track tires so I can finally get back to the track.
I have already checked with CCW on the corsair / GoodYear / Sport Cup Set ups and their associated costs. After a little research It looks to be a great set up for the money and appears to work without problems from the TPMS (tire pressure monitering system) or TCS (traction control system). But I've gotta beat this to death so.....Here goes:
I used to run Toyo RA1's and Yoko AO32's on my Comptech NSX and really liked the Toyos. Toyo and Hoosier both make DOT-R tires in (F) 275/35/18 and (R) 335/30/18. according to These People The stock F-R combo has a diameter diff of 4.3% the Toyo / Hoosier set up has a net F-R diff of 1.3%...considerably different from the stock ratio. The Sport Cups BTW, have a diff of 4.7% F-R...a lot closer to stock.
On the NSX I would just run without the TCS as it was too intrusive anyways, so the tire diameter difference was not an issue. It appears that many run the ZO6 at the track with some sort of TCS engaged, therefore, I would imagine the the tire diameter relation of front to rear is more important.
Does anyone (Alan Law) know if the Toyo/ Hoosier set up will work with the C6Z?
Thanks in advance!
I have already checked with CCW on the corsair / GoodYear / Sport Cup Set ups and their associated costs. After a little research It looks to be a great set up for the money and appears to work without problems from the TPMS (tire pressure monitering system) or TCS (traction control system). But I've gotta beat this to death so.....Here goes:
I used to run Toyo RA1's and Yoko AO32's on my Comptech NSX and really liked the Toyos. Toyo and Hoosier both make DOT-R tires in (F) 275/35/18 and (R) 335/30/18. according to These People The stock F-R combo has a diameter diff of 4.3% the Toyo / Hoosier set up has a net F-R diff of 1.3%...considerably different from the stock ratio. The Sport Cups BTW, have a diff of 4.7% F-R...a lot closer to stock.
On the NSX I would just run without the TCS as it was too intrusive anyways, so the tire diameter difference was not an issue. It appears that many run the ZO6 at the track with some sort of TCS engaged, therefore, I would imagine the the tire diameter relation of front to rear is more important.
Does anyone (Alan Law)
know if the Toyo/ Hoosier set up will work with the C6Z? Thanks in advance!
02-26-2006, 11:03 AM
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Then it looks like a good combo would be the CCW's corsair with Hoosier
Front, 295/30/18 @ 10.8" wide & 25.3" tall
Rear, 335/30/18 @ 12.4" wide & 25.9" tall
A difference of 3.8% F-R...a little closer to stock, will fit the CCW wheels, May or may not mess with the computer although after getting used to this car I will probably run with out the nannies anyway.
Thanks for all the info!
Front, 295/30/18 @ 10.8" wide & 25.3" tall
Rear, 335/30/18 @ 12.4" wide & 25.9" tall
A difference of 3.8% F-R...a little closer to stock, will fit the CCW wheels, May or may not mess with the computer although after getting used to this car I will probably run with out the nannies anyway.
Thanks for all the info!
02-26-2006, 04:22 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by BlkC6Z06
Then it looks like a good combo would be the CCW's corsair with Hoosier
Front, 295/30/18 @ 10.8" wide & 25.3" tall
Rear, 335/30/18 @ 12.4" wide & 25.9" tall
Front, 295/30/18 @ 10.8" wide & 25.3" tall
Rear, 335/30/18 @ 12.4" wide & 25.9" tall
02-26-2006, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BlkC6Z06
Then it looks like a good combo would be the CCW's corsair with Hoosier
Front, 295/30/18 @ 10.8" wide & 25.3" tall
Rear, 335/30/18 @ 12.4" wide & 25.9" tall
A difference of 3.8% F-R...a little closer to stock, will fit the CCW wheels, May or may not mess with the computer although after getting used to this car I will probably run with out the nannies anyway.
Thanks for all the info!
Front, 295/30/18 @ 10.8" wide & 25.3" tall
Rear, 335/30/18 @ 12.4" wide & 25.9" tall
A difference of 3.8% F-R...a little closer to stock, will fit the CCW wheels, May or may not mess with the computer although after getting used to this car I will probably run with out the nannies anyway.
Thanks for all the info!
ItemNumber, TireSize, TreadPattern, TreadWidth, Approx.Dia Circ. Recom.Rim MeasuredRim * SectionWidth A3S04&A3S05AutoCross R3S05Road Race
46840 P285/30ZR18 M 10.9" 24.6" 77.3" 10.5-11.5" 10.0" 11.4" X X
46843 P295/30ZR18 M 10.8" 25.3" 79.5" 9.5-11" 10.0" 11.6" X X
46845 P305/30ZR18 M 11.4" 25.6" 80.4" 11-12" 11.0" 12.4" X X
46850 P335/30ZR18 M 12.4" 25.6" 80.4" 12-13" 12.0" 13.5" X X
Persoanlly I would not be concerned about the ratio of F-R. If yoru running stickies ( slicks ) you turn TC/AH Off.
I run the 305/30/18s on a 12" rim up front and the 335/30/18 on a 13" rim in the rear on my C5 track car.
Rolex Series Tires
DP tires
25.5x11.5R18 20800 $401.00 11.5-12.0" 80.6" 25.7" 11.5" 12.5" 24.4
28.0x12.5R18 20850 $417.00 12.5-13.0" 87.6" 27.9" 12.4" 13.4" 29.7
GT tires
280/640R18 20540 $321.00 10.5-11" 78.875" 25.107" 10.5" 11.125" 22.7
295/660R18 20550 $329.00 11.5-12.0" 82.1" 26.1" 11.6" 12.5" 25.5
295/675R18 20560 $345.00 11.5-12.0" 83.7" 26.6" 11.8" 12.7" 26.1
The big disadvange of running slicks is that there is soo much grip that those tires dont teach you to drive. Plus many HPDEs dont allow ppl with less the 10-15 weekends to run R compounds but only street tires.
These Hoosiers are great tires, and I love using them. However, the grip compound can leach out very quickly, i.e. these tires are only good for about 12 months it that and 12-14 heat cycles, if that.
Last edited by AU N EGL; 02-26-2006 at 05:47 PM.
