[Z06] Direct Injection
04-12-2006, 07:28 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Direct Injection
So I was reading in the FAQ as I often do and sow a post about 3 valve direct injection making 600 HP in the 7.0L engine and not being a complete beast on fuel. Is it possible to convert an LS7 to DI?
for the matter how many different type of injection are there?
Lenghty responses welcome.
for the matter how many different type of injection are there?
Lenghty responses welcome.
04-12-2006, 08:36 PM
#2
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Types of Fuel Injection
Direct vs Indirect (or port) Injection are defined by whether the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber or somewhere else such as the intake port (or a precombustion chamber in the case of a diesel.)
Conversion sounds major to me; the combustion process will be affected and "conversion" would require a signifcant amount of development work to get right, as well as likely mean changing some major components (like cylinder heads, pistons/compression ratio and fuel system, etc.)
Best Regards,
Bob S.
Conversion sounds major to me; the combustion process will be affected and "conversion" would require a signifcant amount of development work to get right, as well as likely mean changing some major components (like cylinder heads, pistons/compression ratio and fuel system, etc.)
Best Regards,
Bob S.
04-12-2006, 09:24 PM
#3
Get Some!
The problem is making an injector that can withstand what happens in the combustion chamber. I wonder how hard, and how much it will cost to soup up a DI engine.
04-12-2006, 10:09 PM
#4
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Bob Schaefer
Direct vs Indirect (or port) Injection are defined by whether the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber or somewhere else such as the intake port (or a precombustion chamber in the case of a diesel.)
Conversion sounds major to me; the combustion process will be affected and "conversion" would require a signifcant amount of development work to get right, as well as likely mean changing some major components (like cylinder heads, pistons/compression ratio and fuel system, etc.)
Best Regards,
Bob S.
Conversion sounds major to me; the combustion process will be affected and "conversion" would require a signifcant amount of development work to get right, as well as likely mean changing some major components (like cylinder heads, pistons/compression ratio and fuel system, etc.)
Best Regards,
Bob S.
04-12-2006, 11:54 PM
#6
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by MAJ Z06
They say it's more efficient.
I'm sorry if I'm getting annoying but I get in these phases when I just want to know as much as possible about something.
04-13-2006, 07:34 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
fyi,
the new turbo GM ecotech 4 banger in the skyline and solstice will be GMs first direct injection engine.
260 HP, not bad. as for conversion, not really worth the hassle/expese. the direct injection is much more fuel efficient but the LS7 can be easily tuned for more HP without it. it's a nice technology but not really applicable to the existing LS7.
putting the fuel right where it belongs leads to much higher efficiency but I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. not sure GM has any plans to put this in the LS7, stay tuned and see how well the ecotech does. my bet is that it will work out fine but not lend itself to "hot rodding" as replacing the injectors is likely to be more of a hassle as is calibration on the computers which is getting more complicated all the time.
the skyline has some appeal with the turbo engine, but to me the direct injection is kinda of a bummer because swapping in larger injectors, turning up the boost, and reprogramming is likely to be a huge PITA compared to "old school" injectors.
I think I've swapped injectors on my turbo buick about 8 times now and it takes about 30 min to do with the chip change.
the old buzzin half duzzin puts 410 to the wheels, 400 torq on only 16 psi of boost on pump gas which is about stock. ez to run the good gas and turn up the boost to 25 and gain another 150 which is pretty cool.
the new turbo GM ecotech 4 banger in the skyline and solstice will be GMs first direct injection engine.
260 HP, not bad. as for conversion, not really worth the hassle/expese. the direct injection is much more fuel efficient but the LS7 can be easily tuned for more HP without it. it's a nice technology but not really applicable to the existing LS7.
putting the fuel right where it belongs leads to much higher efficiency but I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. not sure GM has any plans to put this in the LS7, stay tuned and see how well the ecotech does. my bet is that it will work out fine but not lend itself to "hot rodding" as replacing the injectors is likely to be more of a hassle as is calibration on the computers which is getting more complicated all the time.
the skyline has some appeal with the turbo engine, but to me the direct injection is kinda of a bummer because swapping in larger injectors, turning up the boost, and reprogramming is likely to be a huge PITA compared to "old school" injectors.
I think I've swapped injectors on my turbo buick about 8 times now and it takes about 30 min to do with the chip change.
the old buzzin half duzzin puts 410 to the wheels, 400 torq on only 16 psi of boost on pump gas which is about stock. ez to run the good gas and turn up the boost to 25 and gain another 150 which is pretty cool.
04-13-2006, 10:23 AM
#12
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Rkreigh
fyi,
the new turbo GM ecotech 4 banger in the skyline and solstice will be GMs first direct injection engine.
260 HP, not bad. as for conversion, not really worth the hassle/expese. the direct injection is much more fuel efficient but the LS7 can be easily tuned for more HP without it. it's a nice technology but not really applicable to the existing LS7.
putting the fuel right where it belongs leads to much higher efficiency but I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. not sure GM has any plans to put this in the LS7, stay tuned and see how well the ecotech does. my bet is that it will work out fine but not lend itself to "hot rodding" as replacing the injectors is likely to be more of a hassle as is calibration on the computers which is getting more complicated all the time.
the skyline has some appeal with the turbo engine, but to me the direct injection is kinda of a bummer because swapping in larger injectors, turning up the boost, and reprogramming is likely to be a huge PITA compared to "old school" injectors.
I think I've swapped injectors on my turbo buick about 8 times now and it takes about 30 min to do with the chip change.
the old buzzin half duzzin puts 410 to the wheels, 400 torq on only 16 psi of boost on pump gas which is about stock. ez to run the good gas and turn up the boost to 25 and gain another 150 which is pretty cool.
the new turbo GM ecotech 4 banger in the skyline and solstice will be GMs first direct injection engine.
260 HP, not bad. as for conversion, not really worth the hassle/expese. the direct injection is much more fuel efficient but the LS7 can be easily tuned for more HP without it. it's a nice technology but not really applicable to the existing LS7.
putting the fuel right where it belongs leads to much higher efficiency but I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. not sure GM has any plans to put this in the LS7, stay tuned and see how well the ecotech does. my bet is that it will work out fine but not lend itself to "hot rodding" as replacing the injectors is likely to be more of a hassle as is calibration on the computers which is getting more complicated all the time.
the skyline has some appeal with the turbo engine, but to me the direct injection is kinda of a bummer because swapping in larger injectors, turning up the boost, and reprogramming is likely to be a huge PITA compared to "old school" injectors.
I think I've swapped injectors on my turbo buick about 8 times now and it takes about 30 min to do with the chip change.
the old buzzin half duzzin puts 410 to the wheels, 400 torq on only 16 psi of boost on pump gas which is about stock. ez to run the good gas and turn up the boost to 25 and gain another 150 which is pretty cool.
I think I just found a name for my 3.0L Mitsubishi/Dodge Stratus.
So what I gather is it's kinda cool but not spend money and time on cool?
04-13-2006, 01:35 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
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DI is more efficient and will produce more power. The benefits are...
-Ability to run higher compression ratio/timing without knock
-Cylinder cooling effect
-Better fuel atomization
DI and FI are even better together.
-Ability to run higher compression ratio/timing without knock
-Cylinder cooling effect
-Better fuel atomization
DI and FI are even better together.
04-13-2006, 01:39 PM
#14
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Verrückt
DI is more efficient and will produce more power. The benefits are...
-Ability to run higher compression ratio/timing without knock
-Cylinder cooling effect
-Better fuel atomization
DI and FI are even better together.
-Ability to run higher compression ratio/timing without knock
-Cylinder cooling effect
-Better fuel atomization
DI and FI are even better together.
Last edited by Joe0121; 04-13-2006 at 01:42 PM.
04-13-2006, 02:47 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Verrückt
DI is more efficient and will produce more power. The benefits are...
-Ability to run higher compression ratio/timing without knock
-Cylinder cooling effect
-Better fuel atomization
DI and FI are even better together.
-Ability to run higher compression ratio/timing without knock
-Cylinder cooling effect
-Better fuel atomization
DI and FI are even better together.
04-13-2006, 03:01 PM
#16
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by MitchAlsup
-Cylinder cooling effect--this is a PISTON cooling effect, the cylinder jackets run at the same temperatures as a regular port injected engine (within a couple of degrees). The tops of the pistons donate a large amount of heat to vaporixe the fuel in proximity of the spark plug. Thusly, the pistons run a lot cooler, and can tollerate higher compression, make more power...
04-13-2006, 04:35 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by MitchAlsup
-Cylinder cooling effect--this is a PISTON cooling effect, the cylinder jackets run at the same temperatures as a regular port injected engine (within a couple of degrees). The tops of the pistons donate a large amount of heat to vaporixe the fuel in proximity of the spark plug. Thusly, the pistons run a lot cooler, and can tollerate higher compression, make more power...
My statement was general, but as a whole...cooler pistons will net you cooler everything.
Originally Posted by Joe0121
Is that higher CR on the same gas?
04-13-2006, 07:02 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by Joe0121
Is that higher CR on the same gas?
04-13-2006, 07:25 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by 32valves
yes....Imagine an LS7 with a 12:1 (or maybe even higher) CR stock straight from GM. I have heard a point in compression is worth 5% more HP.